DUST Search - I wonder how matchmaking will work. (speculation/input)

General Technique wrote:

SENATOR KODOS wrote:

General Technique wrote:

SENATOR KODOS wrote:

It wont work due to low player base.
It will be like BFMC.
All the high end players had no one to play.

Are you referring to Battlefield Modern Combat? If so, that game had no matchmaker.

As far as "high-end players" having no one to play, that was only true for clanmatches for the wellknown clans. At least that was the case on the xbox360.

Most of my clan quit that game when the best we could do was get one clan match per week (if we were lucky), and that was always some thrown together clan of all the top players in the game... seemingly with the ultimate purpose of trying to give the top clan on the leaderboard a loss (they always disbanded after their first losses), or it was a rival clan that would ignore our challenges 99% of the time, then suddenly challenges and bring at full team of ringers made up of... you guessed, the top players in the game, lol.

Wouldn't have been so bad if it was an hourly or even daily occurence, but weekly... and only against awkward iterations of the same top 10 or so beasts in the game? We left BFMC for chromehounds... that says it all, lol.

~The X box 360 (creator of 360_Mafia)

Ya It did have matchmaking.
There was a low mid and high end.
We used to have to de rank because there wasnt anyone to play.
All the games available were in the mid rank.

Battlefied: Modern Combat? On the Xbox 360? That's BS, bro. lol

The Clanmatches were all "challenge based"
You queue'd up for clanwars, and any other clans that were queue'd up could then issue a challenge to your clan and vise versa. As for pub matches, you just chose from the region server list thing (there may have been some type of matchmaking there at some point but I doubt it).

You could even go to the leaderboard, look up a players personal info.... and if they were currently in a game you could join their match if there was any room. That's how we used to go troll the boosters and the bragbads.

If there was any kind of matchmaking beyond what I described in that game, then it happened long after I left I suppose

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Anita Hardone Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:08:00 - [1] - Quote I wonder how the match making will work. I know it says it takes gear into the equation, but im sure there is a way to circumvent this lol. Was meant for another thread, but then it got really long so i decided to make it its own. Delete all proto fits. Join game. Make a proto fit in 20 seconds while in game and get hate mail. There needs to be like, a made up skill rating. It takes everything into consideration. Kills per minute, KD ratio, how many vehicles destroyed, accuracy, squad actions, objective actions, average kill streak, total playing time, and total SP and then spits out a number like 750, or 1118 which is used for Matchmaking. If people are in a squad, it could either average everyones rating and do it like that, or just go off of one player with the highest rating. Total SP would be more for a status, like in normal war games you go off of military positions. But in DUST they can make up some random two part alias that basically describes how long they have played, and what they do the most if they have a stat thats above the norm. Like in Tokyo Xtreme Racer, if you never hit a wall and drive super clean an usually win all your races, you will gain a "handle/alia's" like, "Threaded Veteran, or Hyperspeed Vigilante". But if you suck, you could end up with, "Clumsy Psycho, or Typical Woman". These names can also change through sheer playing time too. And it takes everything into account, collisions, how aggressive you drive, average top speed, how often you adjust car settings like gear ratios, how much money you have, play time, number of cars you own, if you leave the body of the cars stock or equip body kits and other ricey add ons etc. This would help to distinguish Vets from noobs at a glance. The names dont have to be derogatory. But they should convey some form of superiority/inferiority to others. If you want a better name, play better, or figure out some other type of playstyle. Have a good name, dont start sucking. One part could be determined by total SP and Playtime and the first part could be the averaged stat name. Which lets say there is a new player and vet which play exactly the same way, the Vet would have a name like "Dead Eye Veteran" and the new player would be "Dead Eye Commando"
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1443	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:36:00 - [2] - Quote If pubstompers and stat padders don't complain for it to be rescinded, it'll be a failure.
Anita Hardone Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 106	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:47:00 - [3] - Quote I dont know how anyone could intelligently argue against a matchmaking system that's fare, and un-exploitable. ie, you stat pad, then get stuck in game wayyy above your skill level... get stomped and then your score falls within 1-3 games until you are somewhere you belong.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 147	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:51:00 - [4] - Quote It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 147	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:52:00 - [5] - Quote Comp is lagging soo bad im double posting non stop eff this !!!!!!!!
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1445	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:56:00 - [6] - Quote Anita Hardone wrote: I dont know how anyone could intelligently argue against a matchmaking system that's fare, and un-exploitable. ie, you stat pad, then get stuck in game wayyy above your skill level... get stomped and then your score falls within 1-3 games until you are somewhere you belong. There are people out there so obsessed with their KDR that they'll run and hide after getting X amount of kills. Also, I saw the same thing happen in DCUO when matchmaking was finally implemented. Villains were so butthurt because they couldn't stomp out heroes anymore that they cried on the forums until it was taken away.
General Technique Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:59:00 - [7] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play. Are you referring to Battlefield Modern Combat? If so, that game had no matchmaker. As far as "high-end players" having no one to play, that was only true for clanmatches for the wellknown clans. At least that was the case on the xbox360. Most of my clan quit that game when the best we could do was get one clan match per week (if we were lucky), and that was always some thrown together clan of all the top players in the game... seemingly with the ultimate purpose of trying to give the top clan on the leaderboard a loss (they always disbanded after their first losses), or it was a rival clan that would ignore our challenges 99% of the time, then suddenly challenges and bring at full team of ringers made up of... you guessed, the top players in the game, lol. Wouldn't have been so bad if it was an hourly or even daily occurence, but weekly... and only against awkward iterations of the same top 10 or so beasts in the game? We left BFMC for chromehounds... that says it all, lol. It was kind of our own fault, though. We constantly taunted other good clans about how we went 114-0 before receiving our first loss, challenging any other clan to just pull off a mere 100-0 if they could. Never happened again as far as I'm aware. Not on the xbox360. Like you said, high-end players couldn't get enough matches. ~The X box 360 (creator of 360_Mafia) I just realized that there's just no possible way you could have been talking about BF:Modern Combat. What the heck does BFMC stand for?
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 147	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:02:00 - [8] - Quote General Technique wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play. Are you referring to Battlefield Modern Combat? If so, that game had no matchmaker. As far as "high-end players" having no one to play, that was only true for clanmatches for the wellknown clans. At least that was the case on the xbox360. Most of my clan quit that game when the best we could do was get one clan match per week (if we were lucky), and that was always some thrown together clan of all the top players in the game... seemingly with the ultimate purpose of trying to give the top clan on the leaderboard a loss (they always disbanded after their first losses), or it was a rival clan that would ignore our challenges 99% of the time, then suddenly challenges and bring at full team of ringers made up of... you guessed, the top players in the game, lol. Wouldn't have been so bad if it was an hourly or even daily occurence, but weekly... and only against awkward iterations of the same top 10 or so beasts in the game? We left BFMC for chromehounds... that says it all, lol. ~The X box 360 (creator of 360_Mafia) Ya It did have matchmaking. There was a low mid and high end. We used to have to de rank because there wasnt anyone to play. All the games available were in the mid rank.
ReGnYuM Not another AR SCRUB 183	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:04:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: If pubstompers and stat padders don't complain for it to be rescinded, it'll be a failure. Can you please stop posting. Your like one of those eve players who is awful at the game, yet because he played eve; he is now somehow knowledgeable. I don't which is worse your fanboinisum or your attempt at understanding the game.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1446	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:06:00 - [10] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Cosgar wrote: If pubstompers and stat padders don't complain for it to be rescinded, it'll be a failure. Can you please stop posting. Your like one of those eve players who is awful at the game, yet because he played eve; he is now somehow knowledgeable. I don't which is worse your fanboinisum or your attempt at understanding the game. Troll harder please, my jimmies remain unrustled.

General Technique Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:08:00 - [11] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: General Technique wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play. Are you referring to Battlefield Modern Combat? If so, that game had no matchmaker. As far as "high-end players" having no one to play, that was only true for clanmatches for the wellknown clans. At least that was the case on the xbox360. Most of my clan quit that game when the best we could do was get one clan match per week (if we were lucky), and that was always some thrown together clan of all the top players in the game... seemingly with the ultimate purpose of trying to give the top clan on the leaderboard a loss (they always disbanded after their first losses), or it was a rival clan that would ignore our challenges 99% of the time, then suddenly challenges and bring at full team of ringers made up of... you guessed, the top players in the game, lol. Wouldn't have been so bad if it was an hourly or even daily occurence, but weekly... and only against awkward iterations of the same top 10 or so beasts in the game? We left BFMC for chromehounds... that says it all, lol. ~The X box 360 (creator of 360_Mafia) Ya It did have matchmaking. There was a low mid and high end. We used to have to de rank because there wasnt anyone to play. All the games available were in the mid rank. Battlefied: Modern Combat? On the Xbox 360? That's BS, bro. lol The Clanmatches were all "challenge based" You queue'd up for clanwars, and any other clans that were queue'd up could then issue a challenge to your clan and vise versa. As for pub matches, you just chose from the region server list thing (there may have been some type of matchmaking there at some point but I doubt it). You could even go to the leaderboard, look up a players personal info.... and if they were currently in a game you could join their match if there was any room. That's how we used to go troll boosters and and bragbads.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 147	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:20:00 - [12] - Quote General Technique wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: General Technique wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play. Are you referring to Battlefield Modern Combat? If so, that game had no matchmaker. As far as "high-end players" having no one to play, that was only true for clanmatches for the wellknown clans. At least that was the case on the xbox360. Most of my clan quit that game when the best we could do was get one clan match per week (if we were lucky), and that was always some thrown together clan of all the top players in the game... seemingly with the ultimate purpose of trying to give the top clan on the leaderboard a loss (they always disbanded after their first losses), or it was a rival clan that would ignore our challenges 99% of the time, then suddenly challenges and bring at full team of ringers made up of... you guessed, the top players in the game, lol. Wouldn't have been so bad if it was an hourly or even daily occurence, but weekly... and only against awkward iterations of the same top 10 or so beasts in the game? We left BFMC for chromehounds... that says it all, lol. ~The X box 360 (creator of 360_Mafia) Ya It did have matchmaking. There was a low mid and high end. We used to have to de rank because there wasnt anyone to play. All the games available were in the mid rank. Battlefied: Modern Combat? On the Xbox 360? That's BS, bro. lol The Clanmatches were all "challenge based" You queue'd up for clanwars, and any other clans that were queue'd up could then issue a challenge to your clan and vise versa. As for pub matches, you just chose from the region server list thing (there may have been some type of matchmaking there at some point but I doubt it). You could even go to the leaderboard, look up a players personal info.... and if they were currently in a game you could join their match if there was any room. That's how we used to go troll the boosters and the bragbads. If there was any kind of matchmaking beyond what I described in that game, then it happened long after I left I suppose Im talking about the OG one on Xbox. And we couldnt play with new friends because their PPH (points per hour) was too low. Thats why you would find people on empty servers driving around captruing bases and not fighting so they could boost their PPH and get into high ranked servers only to find no one was there. Maybe it was diff on the 360 port version which I hated and didnt play but there was matchmaking on the OG version.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 455	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:27:00 - [13] - Quote I believe Gear-only matchmaking would be sufficient. These latest iterations of Dust are heavily skewed in favor of gear making the difference over RL and IG skills. The skill bonuses we get from spending SP are simply not enough of an advantage to warrant matchmaking based solely off SP or WP. Here are my thoughts: If we do manage to actually get a working economy in Dust, I would like to see a market for mid tier equipment. Right now they're simply stepping stones to protogear. If there was a matchmaking system based off gear, veteran players could still participate in matches, provided they "downgrade" their gear to an appropriate level. This solves the problem of having too low of a high-sp population as well as encouraging players to "max out" fitting and support skills instead of rushing straight into prototype gear. As an added benefit, testing and balancing will actually be possible because there will be, hopefully, fewer variables that complicate the discussion. Needless to say -- Corp, PC and FW matches should remain "anything goes" with zero matchmaking IMO.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1449	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:34:00 - [14] - Quote Abron Garr wrote: I believe Gear-only matchmaking would be sufficient. These latest iterations of Dust are heavily skewed in favor of gear making the difference over RL and IG skills. The skill bonuses we get from spending SP are simply not enough of an advantage to warrant matchmaking based solely off SP or WP. Here are my thoughts: If we do manage to actually get a working economy in Dust, I would like to see a market for mid tier equipment. Right now they're simply stepping stones to protogear. If there was a matchmaking system based off gear, veteran players could still participate in matches, provided they "downgrade" their gear to an appropriate level. This solves the problem of having too low of a high-sp population as well as encouraging players to "max out" fitting and support skills instead of rushing straight into prototype gear. As an added benefit, testing and balancing will actually be possible because there will be, hopefully, fewer variables that complicate the discussion. Needless to say -- Corp, PC and FW matches should remain "anything goes" with zero matchmaking IMO. Why not just a combination of all the above? Lifetime WP, lifetime SP, and (not sure how to track this) but average fitting meta level. I would say KDR, but since things are so exploitable, how many times you die vs how many times you killed someone is near meaningless.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 332	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:38:00 - [15] - Quote The easiest "gear' Restrictions would simply be a "limit" on metalevels of equipment, so it would not allow you to spawn anything (would red it out) with anything past Metalevel X
Anita Hardone Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 106	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:40:00 - [16] - Quote Problem will still persist lol. Core skills.... Abron Garr wrote: I believe Gear-only matchmaking would be sufficient. These latest iterations of Dust are heavily skewed in favor of gear making the difference over RL and IG skills. The skill bonuses we get from spending SP are simply not enough of an advantage to warrant matchmaking based solely off SP or WP. Here are my thoughts: If we do manage to actually get a working economy in Dust, I would like to see a market for mid tier equipment. Right now they're simply stepping stones to protogear. If there was a matchmaking system based off gear, veteran players could still participate in matches, provided they "downgrade" their gear to an appropriate level. This solves the problem of having too low of a high-sp population as well as encouraging players to "max out" fitting and support skills instead of rushing straight into prototype gear. As an added benefit, testing and balancing will actually be possible because there will be, hopefully, fewer variables that complicate the discussion. Needless to say -- Corp, PC and FW matches should remain "anything goes" with zero matchmaking IMO. this system doesnt just go off of WP and SP though. Accuracy K/D average Kill Streak Time played Score Per minute everything...
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1451	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:24:00 - [17] - Quote Yeah, I agree we need more available stats. It would make matchmaking much easier. Time played just by itself would make a very good factor.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 455	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:45:00 - [18] - Quote Anita Hardone wrote: Problem will still persist lol. Core skills.... Abron Garr wrote: I believe Gear-only matchmaking would be sufficient. These latest iterations of Dust are heavily skewed in favor of gear making the difference over RL and IG skills. The skill bonuses we get from spending SP are simply not enough of an advantage to warrant matchmaking based solely off SP or WP. Here are my thoughts: If we do manage to actually get a working economy in Dust, I would like to see a market for mid tier equipment. Right now they're simply stepping stones to protogear. If there was a matchmaking system based off gear, veteran players could still participate in matches, provided they "downgrade" their gear to an appropriate level. This solves the problem of having too low of a high-sp population as well as encouraging players to "max out" fitting and support skills instead of rushing straight into prototype gear. As an added benefit, testing and balancing will actually be possible because there will be, hopefully, fewer variables that complicate the discussion. Needless to say -- Corp, PC and FW matches should remain "anything goes" with zero matchmaking IMO. this system doesnt just go off of WP and SP though. Accuracy K/D average Kill Streak Time played Score Per minute everything... First, core skills are not nearly as hard to max out or as big of a factor as gear is. Armor upgrades gives 25% armor boost, that's essentially one or two hits from an AR and on lower tier equipment, those boosts are even more marginal. Second, trying to add more variables to a matchmaking system means you are giving CCP more chances to screw up. Third, you're going to have a hard time filling up matches on the right end of the bell curve. And some of those stats disproportionately affect different roles. You're going to end up with matches literally full of snipers or full of vehicles (that might be fun to watch though).
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:51:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Abron Garr wrote: I believe Gear-only matchmaking would be sufficient. These latest iterations of Dust are heavily skewed in favor of gear making the difference over RL and IG skills. The skill bonuses we get from spending SP are simply not enough of an advantage to warrant matchmaking based solely off SP or WP. Here are my thoughts: If we do manage to actually get a working economy in Dust, I would like to see a market for mid tier equipment. Right now they're simply stepping stones to protogear. If there was a matchmaking system based off gear, veteran players could still participate in matches, provided they "downgrade" their gear to an appropriate level. This solves the problem of having too low of a high-sp population as well as encouraging players to "max out" fitting and support skills instead of rushing straight into prototype gear. As an added benefit, testing and balancing will actually be possible because there will be, hopefully, fewer variables that complicate the discussion. Needless to say -- Corp, PC and FW matches should remain "anything goes" with zero matchmaking IMO. Why not just a combination of all the above? Lifetime WP, lifetime SP, and (not sure how to track this) but average fitting meta level. I would say KDR, but since things are so exploitable, how many times you die vs how many times you killed someone is near meaningless. I just believe in keeping it as simple as possible. I'd start off with a matchmaking system based off of gear, and then if there are still issues of pub stomping, then add in variables one at a time. You're never going to have a perfect system obviously. Dust has many separate roles, and they're going to complicate a good matchmaker.
Acezero 44 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 26	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:57:00 - [20] - Quote ELO match maker, based on who you kill/die to. not win ratio, or anything else,. everyone starts at 1000, die -1, kill +1.. done if you kill someone with 500, and you have 2000, its only a + 0.3, if you die to them its a - 10 and so on. this is all just simple number ratio's to help one understand it,. its a concept from chess rankings,. and it works well in shooters.

Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:01:00 - [21] - Quote Acezero 44 wrote: ELO match maker, based on who you kill/die to. not win ratio, or anything else,. everyone starts at 1000, die -1, kill +1.. done if you kill someone with 500, and you have 2000, its only a + 0.3, if you die to them its a - 10 and so on. this is all just simple number ratio's to help one understand it,. its a concept from chess rankings,. and it works well in shooters. How many of those shooters had a gear disparity?
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 192	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:04:00 - [22] - Quote Gear would probably be flagged according to Meta, rendering invalid fittings should you attempt to equip gear with to high of Meta.
Acezero 44 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:08:00 - [23] - Quote Abron Garr wrote: Acezero 44 wrote: ELO match maker, based on who you kill/die to. not win ratio, or anything else,. everyone starts at 1000, die -1, kill +1.. done if you kill someone with 500, and you have 2000, its only a + 0.3, if you die to them its a - 10 and so on. this is all just simple number ratio's to help one understand it,. its a concept from chess rankings,. and it works well in shooters. How many of those shooters had a gear disparity? it dont matter, I can smoke a full team of proto nubs,. with a dragon fly an toxins,. not sayin im good,. cus the "good" players bend me over, no matter what there using. the game just needs a ELO,.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:15:00 - [24] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Gear would probably be flagged according to Meta, rendering invalid fittings should you attempt to equip gear with to high of Meta. Simple and effective.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1459	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:17:00 - [25] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Gear would probably be flagged according to Meta, rendering invalid fittings should you attempt to equip gear with to high of Meta. Doesn't that pretty much screw Amarr assaults?
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:20:00 - [26] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Gear would probably be flagged according to Meta, rendering invalid fittings should you attempt to equip gear with to high of Meta. Doesn't that pretty much screw Amarr assaults? Yeah, all this talk of matchmaking and balance presupposes a competent Dev team.
Acezero 44 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:22:00 - [27] - Quote i dont get the whole gear thing,.. Say in concept, at the vary top of the match maker, No seriously look up, up more,.. Ok so who's up here? wait for it,.. /GASP,. "the best players in the best gear"
hooc order Deep Space Republic 314	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:24:00 - [28] - Quote Anita Hardone wrote: I wonder how the match making will work. I know it says it takes gear into the equation, but im sure there is a way to circumvent this lol. Was meant for another thread, but then it got really long so i decided to make it its own. Delete all proto fits. Join game. Make a proto fit in 20 seconds while in game and get hate mail. Pretty easy to write code to check what gear you can even wear given the levels of SP you have. and it would be more reliable then to check fits. My guess is it will do just that.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 314	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:27:00 - [29] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: It wont work due to low player base. It will be like BFMC. All the high end players had no one to play. PC and faction warfare where they should be playing now.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:36:00 - [30] - Quote Acezero 44 wrote: i dont get the whole gear thing,.. Say in concept, at the vary top of the match maker, No seriously look up, up more,.. Ok so who's up here? wait for it,.. /GASP,. "the best players in the best gear" Let's assume that player is currently an AR spec'd Assault. What happens if that player decides to spec into AV? The guy could just keep grinding in his AR set until he has enough sp, but this discourages players from trying out different builds and roles. Also, and this is the most important part, how the hell do you even BEGIN to balance a game when people have such a large gear disparity?



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