Some love in that direction would be appreciated. No huge overhaul but a little treatment maybe

Interesting idea, I'd love to get a CCP comment on the tech side of this but that notwithstanding it sounds like a good way to keep things more fluid while still preventing prior exploits.

+1
Cross

Thank you Cross. Glad I have your support :D

You're quite welcome, would you mind linking this thread in my 'threadnought' regarding logi rewards? I'd love to get some more logi mercs eyes on here

Sure thing.

Link?

Lets keep the discussion alive on this topic!

I-Shayz-I did you ever see that link, want to make sure it didn't get lost on you

Cheers,
Cross

...due to the way it currently works i normally only receive about 500 - 600 WP a game, where as if i rep & gun i can get around 1800 - 2000.

Anything that will help the logis to continue repping me instead of running off once they hit that cap.

Now solve the 2-3 mins you spend repairing primary objects such as Supply Depo's to maintain tactical advantage. When the enemy has almost taken it out. (usually done once the area has been cleared).

A bit more? I'm surprised it hasn't blown up by now.

I'm at almost 40 likes and not a single DEV or CPM has replied on the topic.

I don't know if I've mentioned this or not, but if this was changed, The 25 bonus should be changed to something less like 15 or 20.

On another note, i've been hearing a bit too much about the lock on feature being a trouble. Should we discuss that in this thread as well?

Right now I've only seen people repair vehicles rarely, and installations even less. Could make it so the vehicle or installation had to have been damaged or done some damage 30 seconds prior...

Right now, you can only earn a certain amount of WP from triage bonuses with the repair tool over a certain amount of time. Basically, once you've earned your first bonus, an invisible timer starts. You can only earn a few more bonuses afterwards until you "cap" off. Once the timer ends, you can start earning bonuses again.

This is to prevent previous exploits where players would damage themselves, then have someone repair them for an endless cycle of WP gain without having to participate in combat. With this system in place, it restricts the ability for support players to earn wp for their team.

BUT

What if this timer automatically ended whenever you scored a kill, or an assist, or a guardian bonus?

So as long as you stay in combat and help support your teammates, you can keep earning wp, without ever having to worry about it being exploited!

Heres an even better idea for repair tool...just make it so the only time you get points is when your teammate is hurt by an enemy.any other forms of damage wont count.

I could only see it being a problem if some one left triage nanohives in the MCC or back lines and had a (goth)friend or two back there hurting them selves and the logi stayed with a heavy or a couple assaults to get the guardian bonus and just stacked WP like mad for orbies. I know its horrible and sleazy, but I figured I would bring it up before it becomes broken and we get hit with an even harder nerf hammer.

5. I've gone many games with 0 kills 14 assists and snagged 800-900 WP through heals, hacks, ammo, and spawns. As a support player, I shouldn't be rocking 1.5k-2k and getting my own OB... I should require a squad to gain those numbers.

Unfortunately, this would be a rather difficult thing to implement in the game. It's not that we haven't thought of it, it's that we know what the limits are of the developers. Besides, how would this fix the repair tool?

The way it needs to be fixed is to make it give you points no matter how much health you are healing. The problem is we don't want players to abuse this mechanic by not having to participate in battle.

Getting a kill, or an assist, or even guardian points should be easy to register in the game's code. Their code also includes the timer and restrictions for the repair tool. All they would need to do is set it up so that when a player gets one of these point bonuses, the timer resets and the player is allowed to get more bonuses again.

The problem with the timer is that it stops you from earning points once you have it a cap. This cap means that for a short period of time, using the repair tool is worthless and there's nothing you can do about it. Players aren't restricted from getting points from kills, yet we have to suffer because it's possible for us to earn points outside of battle. By adding in this fix, we get more points by staying in battle and helping our team.

logis should try to avoid combat after all they are what keeps a team alive...if they do this we would be forced to go for kills. i might as well put a repair tool on an assault suit.

I believe you're missing my point here...

This fix would allow someone who just wants to repair people all day the advantage of not having to kill players in order to actually score some massive amounts of wp for the team. Let me explain.

Currently, If you run a match with just the repair tool and other equipment to help keep players alive, the maximum amount of wp you could get is anywhere from 1k-1.5k wp. This is because you don't get any bonuses after you hit the imaginary cap for the repair tool. After the cooldown, you can then continue to earn wp, but the time it takes for the cooldown is too long and restricts us way too much.

My idea makes it so that if you get a guardian bonus, it ends the cooldown cycle immediately and resets any progress towards your invisible bonus cap.

A guardian bonus is when the person who you're repairing gets a kill. So as long as you keep your repair tool on the slayers, you can continue to get bonuses infinitely as long as they keep getting kills.
____________________

The other way my solution helps is that whenever you get a kill assist or a kill, the timer/cooldown resets. This way, it's proof that you are indeed in a combat situation.

As a logistics player myself with over 15 mil sp, I've found that the best way to support your team as a logistics is to be able to distract and help kill the enemy encounters, THEN heal and replenish afterwards. However, this isn't everyone's playstyle, so that's why I suggested kills, kill assists and guardian bonuses should reset the timer.

Either way, whether you want to keep your repair tool on a player, or help the team in firefights, everyone wins.
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UPDATE:

What do you think of the timer resetting when you get a REVIVE BONUS as well? (Say, if the perosn you already revived dies again and you try to go revive him again, you wouldn't get the revive bonus, therefore not get a reset on the timer. This would help prevent farming the bodies every time they died i.e. revive, repair, let them die, repeat) That way dedicated logistics would never have to pull out their weapon at all!

I really like the idea of a reset timer on needles, no more nubs picking people up in the sights of the sniper who just one-shot them just so to be picked up again and again and again. (Though it is a great way to screw with some ones KDR)

Most of the equipment already has a built in reset timer of some sort so adding it to these two tools would be an excellent start.

This is the only point of yours I'm going to disagree on.

Any player, no matter what role they are, should be able to get wp unrestricted if they are being an effective player in combat. Back in Chromosome I set a record in Zion for the most wp earned in a match with another player (aside from tanks). This was still while the cap for wp gains was in place.

I think I went something like 17/2 with 4186 wp
I had a heavy squadded with me that went 63/7 and 3817 wp

The primary reason I was able to get that score was because I stuck with my squadmate and kept him healed while getting as many kills as I could. Back then there wasn't random LAV's everywhere, the HMG actually worked, flaylocks didn't exsist, and I didn't have to worry about someone randomly killing me.

Recently I was able to get about 3.1k wp in a match by myself doing a similar thing but it was much harder. The key here is that you need to be effective as both a slayer AND a support class if you want to max out your wp gain. Still, players should at least be rewarded substantially if they are able to keep the team healed and alive, even if they aren't the best FPS player. Dust should have this freedom.

I agree with your statement, one should be dual classed and provide fire as well as heal. My comment was more in regards to the "dedicated healer" option some seemed to outline above who's primary weapon would be the repper and then use a scrambler pistol or something to free as much CPU/PG as possible for other things. IMHO, not the best viable option, nor one that should reap the same rewards as your 17/2 outing with heals. So, no, a PURE support player shouldn't be able to gain the 3-4k. A dual kill/heal logi most definitely should be able to gain those numbers though.

I like the balance that exists because I feel a need to work on my gun game and try to get some positive KDR to boost the WP outing. In Chromosome and even in the closed beta, I could run a full BPO Sever loadout and gain +3k WP with zero kills. I didn't even really try to get kills because why bother, let the heavy HMG cannon take him out, I'll be the annoying mosquito. This was the reason for the heals nerf and anti-logi rage that caused it. You had the proto guy gaining 32-0 not being top of the leaderboard because I was a healing machine on said proto-butt.

but a logi is not supposed to be worried about slaying..his main job is to heal and resupply..killing comes second.what about logis like me who are not good at slaying or just dont want slay...it really messes us up.

The best way to make the repair tool (and 'support players') viable, is to make them attractive to use in a firefight. Right now, there's pretty much no circumstance in high end gameplay where using a repair tool in combat is more useful than actually shooting the enemy with your gun.

There's been a slew of suggestions on how to accomplish this, but that is the premise to making repair tools actually valuable in competitive play.

Your description matches nearly everyone else's in competitive play; "They're basically only used after a firefight to keep heavies alive" Which is useful, I won't deny... But it diminishes the role of a healing tool. A healer role should be able to viably heal in combat, but it should still come down to the tank's ability to avoid damage in the first place that keeps the both of them alive. If it's more viable for your healer to be doing DPS than healing during the fight itself then something about the healing role needs to be looked at, don't you think?

The idea here is that these classes were designed to preform specific roles with specific weaknesses that balanced the roles properly.

The repair tool needs to be able to keep someone almost invincible...but for that change to be made there needs to be something else: a chargable, limited capacity of invincibility.

In TF2, the more you heal, the faster you get to using an ability that makes the target you're healing invincible for a little while.
In Resistance 2, you earn charges for your medgun that have to be earned back once depleted.
In MMO's, you have limited mana that has to be slowly filled back up before you can cast again.

In Dust, a simple solution would be to double or triple the amount of health gained per second while the repair tool is locked on a player, but make it so that you can only use the repair tool for a limited time before you have to let it replenish the amount of stored nanites it has. Maybe nanites can even be gained through nanohives?

Or, can we just remove the WP cap? Nothing else gets the treatment. So why does a staple of a logi build have to?

MAG had it to where friendly fire and fall damage wasn't rewarded exp upon healing someone. This is the way it should be in DUST. If something like this was done for kills, there would be total outrage.

So I heard a rumor that since the latest patch we now only get triage points while repping people in active combat? Can anyone confirm this is or is not the case? Haven't played my logi since patch cause I'm obsessed with my tanker (yes I'm a glutton for punishment).

I did hear from a dev that MORE support bonuses will be coming in 1.5 :D

[REQUEST] More incentive to play a support role - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?find=unread&g=posts&t=96467
Update: More WP rewards for support actions will be available in 1.5

- Updated the repair tool rewards to encourage players to act as 'Combat medics' and prevent them from being exploited
* Added Triage reward - an assist if you are repairing a friendly and that friendly gets a kill
* Added Guardian reward - you receive rewards when repairing a friendly who has damaged an enemy within x seconds
* Added a WP cap window - if a player scores more than X amount of WP within Y amount of time then there is a cool-down timer until they can score again

Some historical musings about repair rewards specifically:

In Chromosome, the repair rewards were changed from the old cyclical system. We replaced that with two new rewards:

Guardian - 35 WP - You're actively repairing a player who kills a target
Triage - 25 WP - You repair someone who has taken damage within the last 60 seconds

To me, it sounds like he's talking about how they changed the rewards to the two new ones in Chromosome. There's always the possibility of the wp cap still in place too messing things up even more....but who knows.

Great ideas but I think they just need to outright remove the timer. Don't nerf legit players in the name of fixing exploits. I don't give a **** if someone is exploiting to get SP without fighting, whatever, let them do that it sounds boring. Total bullshit to penalize legit logi players as a fix.

+1

Good logistics are far and few between. The good ones usually have pretty bad KDR's due to the fact they are usually in the worst of places, exposing themselves to withering fire so they can pick up and supplying their buddies and blueberries.

It's a tough job, please don't penalize those of us who take it seriously and don't "boost" anyone but the teams performance.