Hi

We are currently testing an update to the TAC AR and we hope to release it next week. The changes being tested include a smaller clip size, increased hip-fire dispersion to make it less effective in CQC and a lower ROF. WeGÇÖre not aiming to nerf hammer it so weGÇÖll monitor the weapon carefully after that to see the impact of the change.

CCP Wolfman

Based on the above, the guns could look like this:

GLU
Damage - 54
Clip Size - 21
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 58

Duvolle
Damage - 58
Clip Size - 18
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 56.5


Anyway, that's my feedback. I'll be using either the Breach or the GEK in the mean time, but I do have to say... how you could nerf the crap out of the TAC but leave the scramblers alone is beyond me.

Also... you want game-breaking? How about the free murder taxis driving around? Where's the fix for that?

Wouldn't a higher clip size on a prototype gun make more sense? Wouldn't a higher accuracy on prototype gun make sense? My militia free murder taxi is still fully automatic and has no need to re-charge my shields or armor to kill your prototype semiauto low rof fully out of ammo tactical assault rifle user or reload my bumper after running over the other four heavy suited mercs standing in front of him so that he can heal them with his proto repair tool.

Full disclosure up front - I am/was a TAC user, but unlike most, I agree that a nerf was needed. That being said, the gun was rendered instantly unplayable, as the nerfing went too far, and in the wrong direction.

So... 3 main things changed.... Clip Size, Rate of Fire, Hip Fire Spread.
Damage, recoil and range were unchanged.

Logically, it makes no sense to put the hip fire spread anywhere below that of an automatic AR. Automatic ARs have recoil and such, whereas the TAC is theoretically a single shot and therefore has less recoil. Also, as the TAC has a longer range, the angular deviation will only increase over distance. The fire will look like a cone... what may be a 1m wide cone 10m from the target will be a 1.2m cone 20m from the target, etc. Range naturally amplifies any deviation, so logically dropping accuracy below that of a regular AR (auto) is just silly.

Clip size.... 100% agree. Way too much damage available in that gun before a reload was needed.

Rate of Fire - Agree somewhat. My mouse finger allowed me to get way too many rounds per second, but a hard cap at 400 seems a bit low.


I was an AR user before, in Chromosome, but never picked up a TAC until Uprising. Why, you ask? Well, the answer is simple: range. The changes to sharpshooter meant that i was putting my sights over someone, but inflicting no damage to the range hard cap. It doesn't take people very long to realize that keeping range is key, and so people switched to the TAC to keep their RANGE. The Damage that people did was a nice bonus, but honestly secondary to keeping their Chromosome-level range.

EVE actually gives us a good balance example here... Javelin and Spike, two rail-gun ammos that fill two different needs.

Javelin - Higher damage shells, but much shorter range (-75% range reduction)
Spike - Lower damage shells, greatly expanded range (80% range bonus)

So... following this template, the automatic ARs, that have shorter range, should do more damage. Longer range TAC ARs should do less damage.

DPS is simply a product of RoF and raw damage scores. You can increase or decrease one stat to completely change the feel of the weapon. And unless you want to work tracking into the calculation (as there is with turrets in EVE), accuracy (i.e. hipfire spread) should remain constant.

So... here is my feedback following the TAC changes:

1 - Keep the clip size where it is for the Duvolle... but slightly higher (perhaps 20, or 22) for the GLU. It is a lower damage gun, and should therefore have more rounds.

2 - Drop the damage on TACs across the board - in the mid-70s is too high.... range should be mid 50s.... so drop a full 20 points per round. There should also be a larger gradient between the weapons... GLU should have 2-4 damage points less than the Duvolle, but have a couple extra rounds in the magazine. Duvolle should have higher damage, but fewer rounds.

3 - At the very least, return hip-fire accuracy to the same level as other ARs. Perhaps play with the accuracy of the various tiers.... GLU slightly more accurate, less damage. Duvolle less accurate, more damage.

4 - Rate of fire - Higher than the current 400, but less than the Breach's ~540. Perhaps a flat 500, hard capped to get rid of the "modded controllers", or people like me who use KB/M

Based on the above, the guns could look like this:

GLU
Damage - 54
Clip Size - 21
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 58

Duvolle
Damage - 58
Clip Size - 18
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 56.5


Anyway, that's my feedback. I'll be using either the Breach or the GEK in the mean time, but I do have to say... how you could nerf the crap out of the TAC but leave the scramblers alone is beyond me.

Also... you want game-breaking? How about the free murder taxis driving around? Where's the fix for that?

lol at OP saying its illogical to make the spread lower than a normal AR.... because its not like AR's have a skill that decreases dispersion or anything....

1 - Keep the clip size where it is for the Duvolle... but slightly higher (perhaps 20, or 22) for the GLU. It is a lower damage gun, and should therefore have more rounds.

2 - Drop the damage on TACs across the board - in the mid-70s is too high.... range should be mid 50s.... so drop a full 20 points per round. There should also be a larger gradient between the weapons... GLU should have 2-4 damage points less than the Duvolle, but have a couple extra rounds in the magazine. Duvolle should have higher damage, but fewer rounds.

3 - At the very least, return hip-fire accuracy to the same level as other ARs. Perhaps play with the accuracy of the various tiers.... GLU slightly more accurate, less damage. Duvolle less accurate, more damage.

4 - Rate of fire - Higher than the current 400, but less than the Breach's ~540. Perhaps a flat 500, hard capped to get rid of the "modded controllers", or people like me who use KB/M

Not sure I totally understand the OP post.

You say the TAR was nerf to far, but the number you propose bring lower DPS, and lower DPM

currently we got something around 520DPS and 1404 DPM

Your proposal, 493DPS and 1044 DPM.

Before the nerf, it was what? 750 DPS and 2300DPS rougly?
I don't understand either the accuracy proposal. You propose to increase the accuracy, while stating it only affect hip fire at long range...??. Who hip fire at long range anyway. Why increase it if it doesn't change your CQC capability?

Not sure what your proposal would make the TAR more "playable". In my eyes, it would make it much out of place, it would be better in CQC with higher RoF and accuracy, but worst at range when ADS since your bullets are less effective.

Explain to me please. without ranting out and telling me it's crap because it is less effective as before (for sure it is).
I just feel like you play to much in CQC with it. It shouldn't be a all around gun, the AR is.

Just logically, how does a single shot gun has worse accuracy than an automatic weapon?

It's just a question of balance anyway, not logic really. Else, my HMG would be a kitten madness to the enemy faces, no spread what so ever, crazy dmg, blowing LAVs and DS at 100M+.

Saying a gun < 78Hp dmg per shot and the "higher then auto" RoF> to be just side bonus is laughable.

I am a dedicated TAC user and am actually happy with the results. I would not consider this a 'nerf' as the gun is still useable. The only thing i found odd was I am no worse in CQC with it as the dispersal rate is moot when the enemy is so close even wild shots hit. However in mid range the scope is too slow moving to use, tracking is very difficult at this speed which leaves hip firing at that range in which case the dispersal rate makes this near impossible. I wish i had a suggestion for this, but otherwise, love the fix, love the tears :)

ok, time to simplify the problem here.

TAR:

+ high damage
+ out ranges everything aside from SR
+ higher rof then full auto guns (as dont believe burst is doing a 900+ it says, but isnt used b/c to weak)
+ = hipfire to full/burst guns
+ good at all range

- smaller magsize
- semi auto (not a real neg, but whatever)

With the changes done to the TAR it now looked like this:

+ high damage
+ out ranges everything aside from SR

- even smaller magsize (maybe to small, could of probably went 18/24 for adv/proto)
- semi auto (not a real neg, but whatever)


Which is how it should be (more or less). If you read the description of the TAR it says its a "medium-long" range weapon. Well, with the old stats it was as good/better in cqc then the other AR's, so it wasn't pure player ability to do it, but game mechanics (that was bad). By changing the TAR, it put it in its proper role of being more of a DMR set role, having more damage per shot, more range, but much smaller mag. That said, hipfire reduction was definitely needed, as the TAR isn't meant to be cqc effective (but it was), yet i do believe ADS recoil should be slightly lowered to aid in its designed role. If you want to look at it via real guns; consider the normal AR an m4a1, and the TAR a XM110 (if dont get the comparison, then google it)

Also to the OP, you can't lower the damage, as then all you have is a longer range breach AR.

I think the Tac AR is much better now. It gives AR users a long range option on the more open maps,

I'll come right out and say it - The Tac AR doesn't need to be a good gun. It needs to be a useful tool to give the AR users a little bit of flexibility. It seems to be doing that job rather well right now.

The only other weapon that even comes close to the flexibility of the AR skill tree is the scrambler and it's assault variant. The AR does not need to give you access to a four different weapons. It should give you access to one that has a couple situational variants.

the only thing that needs to be changed about any AR is the name. Call it the plasma carbine so people don't expect "real gun" ranges.

Hi guys,

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts. However it's no longer in a class of its own which is a good thing. We will keep an eye on it to see how things develop.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts. However it's no longer in a class of its own which is a good thing. We will keep an eye on it to see how things develop.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts. However it's no longer in a class of its own which is a good thing. We will keep an eye on it to see how things develop.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts. However it's no longer in a class of its own which is a good thing. We will keep an eye on it to see how things develop.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

CCP Wolfman

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts.

Thanks Wolfman. Appreciate your communicating what's going on to us all, it really does make a difference.

Just my $0.02 on the Duvolle TAR. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but I think DTAR has been relegated to PC battles only. The reason being I could never justify spending 4x the ISK for a proto variant that has only a very slight differentiation from advanced variant. Might be worth re-examining and perhaps upping the magazine size slightly (20+) to give people a more visible value proposition when compared to GLU-5.

id like to know why ANYONE would take a Breach AR over the current Tac

the Tac has just under 50% more damage twice the range and the same rate of fire (the breach is 400RPM just like the Tac)

I disagree on your Duvolle TAR comment. Increasing the clip size was always a bad thing for the weapon scaling - No other weapon, to my knowledge, received a higher clip size than the previous tier. It widens the gulf between proto and advanced gear too much.

No one is saying the TAR was fine as it was.... point of fact, it wasn't.

People were happily using the GEK and regular Duvolle in Chromosome, but all of a sudden, switched to TAC when Uprising launched.

Why?

Shall I tell you why? Seeing as you have already admitted to not using a TAC AR before uprising. *rollseyes*

In Chromosome the TAC AR had an enormous amount of recoil making the gun practically useless. Recoil was added as a fix (for the same issues encountered in Uprising - modded controller abuse etc.)

I'm finding the TAC now to be a useful weapon in the right circumstances, pick your targets well and work with a team..

Full disclosure up front - I am/was a TAC user, but unlike most, I agree that a nerf was needed. That being said, the gun was rendered instantly unplayable, as the nerfing went too far, and in the wrong direction.

So... 3 main things changed.... Clip Size, Rate of Fire, Hip Fire Spread.
Damage, recoil and range were unchanged.

Logically, it makes no sense to put the hip fire spread anywhere below that of an automatic AR. Automatic ARs have recoil and such, whereas the TAC is theoretically a single shot and therefore has less recoil. Also, as the TAC has a longer range, the angular deviation will only increase over distance. The fire will look like a cone... what may be a 1m wide cone 10m from the target will be a 1.2m cone 20m from the target, etc. Range naturally amplifies any deviation, so logically dropping accuracy below that of a regular AR (auto) is just silly.

Clip size.... 100% agree. Way too much damage available in that gun before a reload was needed.

Rate of Fire - Agree somewhat. My mouse finger allowed me to get way too many rounds per second, but a hard cap at 400 seems a bit low.


I was an AR user before, in Chromosome, but never picked up a TAC until Uprising. Why, you ask? Well, the answer is simple: range. The changes to sharpshooter meant that i was putting my sights over someone, but inflicting no damage to the range hard cap. It doesn't take people very long to realize that keeping range is key, and so people switched to the TAC to keep their RANGE. The Damage that people did was a nice bonus, but honestly secondary to keeping their Chromosome-level range.

EVE actually gives us a good balance example here... Javelin and Spike, two rail-gun ammos that fill two different needs.

Javelin - Higher damage shells, but much shorter range (-75% range reduction)
Spike - Lower damage shells, greatly expanded range (80% range bonus)

So... following this template, the automatic ARs, that have shorter range, should do more damage. Longer range TAC ARs should do less damage.

DPS is simply a product of RoF and raw damage scores. You can increase or decrease one stat to completely change the feel of the weapon. And unless you want to work tracking into the calculation (as there is with turrets in EVE), accuracy (i.e. hipfire spread) should remain constant.

So... here is my feedback following the TAC changes:

1 - Keep the clip size where it is for the Duvolle... but slightly higher (perhaps 20, or 22) for the GLU. It is a lower damage gun, and should therefore have more rounds.

2 - Drop the damage on TACs across the board - in the mid-70s is too high.... range should be mid 50s.... so drop a full 20 points per round. There should also be a larger gradient between the weapons... GLU should have 2-4 damage points less than the Duvolle, but have a couple extra rounds in the magazine. Duvolle should have higher damage, but fewer rounds.

3 - At the very least, return hip-fire accuracy to the same level as other ARs. Perhaps play with the accuracy of the various tiers.... GLU slightly more accurate, less damage. Duvolle less accurate, more damage.

4 - Rate of fire - Higher than the current 400, but less than the Breach's ~540. Perhaps a flat 500, hard capped to get rid of the "modded controllers", or people like me who use KB/M

Based on the above, the guns could look like this:

GLU
Damage - 54
Clip Size - 21
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 58

Duvolle
Damage - 58
Clip Size - 18
RoF - 510
Accuracy - 56.5


Anyway, that's my feedback. I'll be using either the Breach or the GEK in the mean time, but I do have to say... how you could nerf the crap out of the TAC but leave the scramblers alone is beyond me.

Also... you want game-breaking? How about the free murder taxis driving around? Where's the fix for that?

Anyway, that's my feedback. I'll be using either the Breach or the GEK in the mean time, but I do have to say... how you could nerf the crap out of the TAC but leave the scramblers alone is beyond me.

Hi guys,

We've been monitoring the TAR since the change. So far it is still one of the most used weapons with one of the highest kill counts. However it's no longer in a class of its own which is a good thing. We will keep an eye on it to see how things develop.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Also, what's to stop us from increasing clip size in the Duvolle regular to 72? To increase the reward over using a Gek?

18 is a good clip size for both TARs. If you conserve your shots and aim, you will put down your targets just fine.

Like I've said before... a fix for the TAR would have been to increase the range on the other ARs.

Before we change any AR-class weapon (this includes the Scrambler Rifles) CCP really needs to get us these other two racial AR types. Otherwise we are either setting up for nerfs later or completely speculating and probably resulting in the same thing.

All the other weapons have different variants for different uses... except the lolBreach for most of them. Why not the AR?

It's not having any diversity that's the issue is having so much diversity in a weapon line so adaptable.
There is no other weapon type (in my experience which includes all weapons save the HMG and Scram) with so much internal diversity. Compare the Freedom MD to the Boundless MD, they function on essentially the same baseline, much more so than a burst AR compared with a Tac AR. The LR has even less diversity in function than the MD, the sidearms are all pretty much one trick ponies (tho they're sidearms so that may be fine) the shotgun has a very specific engagement profile etc.

Under Chrome this was somewhat less problematic as the Light Weapon skills applied to everything so a Merc could invest minimally into several weapon lines and still have high level function by maxing the LW skills. Under Uprising with the newly split skills this is no longer the case and the tactical implications are significant. You now have the most general and adaptable weapon on the field also part of the most diverse and adaptable light weapon group in the game thus pushing the comparative value of SP invested into the AR line beyond that of the other LW types. Which is pretty much the definition of imbalance.

So far the only two remedies I've seen for this are either to divide the AR line into smaller sub groups or to increase the breadth of types/adaptability offered within the other lines. I'm honestly not sure I'm satisfied with either as a solution but regardless the issue still bears discussion.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I was putting numbers up to highlight true variation between guns. Better at some points, but trade-offs. Naturally, my numbers may not be the best suggestion in the world, but they were just there to illustrate a point.

The basic argument against the TAC was "I die too fast against TAC users".

If you die too quick, the natural fix is to decrease the damage you take... hence the DPS of the thing shooting you. Either drop the damage, or drop the ROF. Clip size is helpful, too, because reload times reduce damage over time (though over a longer term).

Proto gun - higher damage, but balanced by less accuracy and fewer rounds in the clip.
Adv gun - lower damage, but slightly more accurate, couple of extra rounds in the clip.

All the other weapons have different variants for different uses... except the lolBreach for most of them. Why not the AR?

The same could be said about all future content so it's not really practical advice.

That's the issue, the AR variants are all placeholders for the other racial weapons. That's why there's so much versatility in one weapon class.

Rate of fire needs to be increased to 500 or so. The 400 cap is too low, and causes the gun to stutter if you press R1 too fast.

Also, if the reasoning behind the RoF nerf was to prohibit "modded" controllers, why leave the scrambler rifle as it is? Apparently, the heat build-up is based on time fired, not shots fired, so "modded" controllers can abuse this easily.

I've adapted to the GLU-5, it's not what it once was but it can still get you kills as long as you keep the enemy at arms reach.

The Duvolle TAR needs something though. It's identical to the GLU-5 but does 4 HP more damage per shot for a price tag that's 4 times as large.

.
.
op post
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Spam auto fire on a controller, you're not getting off more than 11-14 rounds before you overheat.
.

And have you seen anyone with a modded controller and a SCR? From what I've heard as recently as a couple days ago the overheat function is glitched allowing almost 1 1/2 clips to be unloaded without overheating.

The problem with the RoF cap is that while 400rpm is really hard to achieve consistently for the strain alone (i say impossible even), it is perfectly possible to dish out 10rps for one or two seconds. This leads to the perceived slowliness of the current tac although the RoF sounds reasonable on paper.

My take for a solution is a system akin to the overheat mechanic of the SCR wich allows for four or five shots at max before the weapon starts to limit the firerate in order to break modded controllers. That way people can fire as fast as they can for realisticly short bursts, allowing for the weapon to behave like it's namesake without giving modded controllers as much of a function.

I gotta say TAC AR nerf was okay on the whole. Not perfect, but okay.
And it is still definately usable.

The greatest thing about the nerf was that it affected the biggest issue - short to med range machinegunning while hipfiring.
Now, even tho the effect is working, the way it was done was a bit silly: just added random spread.
Extreme kick would've been better solution for a few reasons.

Not that current spread allows point blank machinegunning still, but in that situation TAC ARs don't trump like they used to other ranges. This is isn't that terrible..



The RoF nerf has a interesting effect few realised:
It makes autofiring TAC ARs very stable. At long range it is quite easy to hold reticle on target while shooting which wasn't the case before (ofc you could've tuned your autofire ROF to 400 but hey who does that...)
Scoping while autofiring now takes far less skill as you don't have to struggle to control the reticle (which was cool)

BTW, because of that, has anyone noticed how post-nerf TAC AR feels a bit like Breach AR of last summer? =P


TLDR;
@Those who say TAC AR is still OP: most important short to mid range nerf worked. at ranges15-40m TAC AR is at disadvantage.
@Those who say TAC AR is unusable: at mediumLong and Long range TAC AR is still beast. Autofiring now takes less skill while scoped. CQC point blank still works.

and it settles that "it kills me too fast" complaint.

It shouldn't be set as fast as you can push the button. It should be set as fast as someone could pull the trigger of a semi-auto rifle with a cycle of operations and recoil, while trying to keep it on target, which is closer to where it's at now.

I'm sorry but the TAC update is still depressing me. Why can't CCP handle this single fire AR like other games handle their single fire ARs. Never have I not been able to fire as quick as my finger desires. Why is CCP taking the easy way out on their fight against modded controllers? Hip fire nerf is completely understandable. Clip nerf is highly questionable. ROF nerf is still way too heavy. Why is this futuristic, space age single fire AR the slowest Single fire I've ever used in any game?

First of all how many years in the future is this weapon supposed to be? And we're still so limited by cycling weapon mechanics?
While at the same time, other fps games replicating real life weapons aren't held back by these mechanics? AND they seem to manage just fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting a single fire AR to fire as fast as you can personally push R1. That's how every single fire AR ive ever used has always worked. Why should dust be different?

I would like to see some rational discussion as to how a semi auto weapon should somehow be able to cycle so fast. For a balance standpoint explain why a semi auto weapon with very high damadge should also have a very high rate of fire and be usable on even entry level dropsuits and suffer no movement minus.
Before the nerf my biggest problem with a TAC AR is that it out damages the proto HMG which has several down points. The balance points to a heavy proto HMG are that you have to run a heavy dropsuit so your movement is slow and so is your turning. You dont get an equipment slot as a heavy.

I wonder how many people consider the clip size reduction is part of a CQC nerf.?

I would like to see some rational discussion as to how a semi auto weapon should somehow be able to cycle so fast. For a balance standpoint explain why a semi auto weapon with very high damadge should also have a very high rate of fire and be usable on even entry level dropsuits and suffer no movement minus.
Before the nerf my biggest problem with a TAC AR is that it out damages the proto HMG which has several down points. The balance points to a heavy proto HMG are that you have to run a heavy dropsuit so your movement is slow and so is your turning. You dont get an equipment slot as a heavy.

This is why the Breach AR is the last AR that needs to be properly balanced.
Pretty much ALL weapons with the "Breach" moniker are not CQC dominant, as their name implies they should be.

Breach Shotguns suck compared to standards.
Breach Scrambler Pistols are too slow compared to standards.
Breach Forge Guns stop you from moving... you won't breach anything if you can't move.
Breach SMGs are just suckier standard ARs.
Breach ARs are no different than the rest of the Breach family... they fail at their intended goal. Why? Because their RoF sucks donkey balls.

I'm a firm believer that high RoF weapons do, and always should dominate CQC (the Shotgun and Nova Knives being the only exceptions to this rule).

In fact, the entire "Breach" concept in Dust proves this. No one uses anything Breach in it's niche with total success. Higher RoF weapons always come out on top in CQC.
Don't get me wrong. This is NOT a bad thing. RoF should rule CQC, always.

That said, I really think Dust's Breach principle should be reviewed... Should Breach variants keep damage, and simply get superior RoF?

Should a Breach HMG with 5000 RPM RoF be introduced?
Should the Breach SMG be bumped up to 1200 RPM?
Should the Breach Scrambler be bumped up 700 RPM?
Should the Breach AR receive the old TAR's 789.5 RPM?

Before you say No, bare in mind, these weapons have significantly smaller magazine size. So a higher RoF means they kill faster, BUT their persistence is also reduced.
Before you say Yes, you have to think about the potential fallout to the other variants within that class. (e.g. ALL SMGs are CQC weapons. So if you just give the Breach SMG a huge RPM jump, the other ones are automatically obsolete.)

Breach is a touchy subject.... but the Breach weapons, especially the Breach AR need some review.

The Duvolle Tactical is a proto weapon and should be treated as such by its stats. There is no logical reason for the clip size to be the same as the GLU-5 TAC. Every other AR has a clip size increase from the base to proto levels and this should be carried down the line.

If the ROF is the main issue that Devs/players are seeing then consider how a real gun fires, pull the trigger fire a shot. This isn't doing 50 caliber style damage where we are getting one shot one kill deaths but rather a modded controller issue. 500 rpm would be an acceptable amount but 400rpm is easy to misfire while ADS or from hip fire as it is necessary to rapidly depress your trigger if you want to get a kill. If you either increased the damage by 40-60 or increased the ROF to 500 where it is possible to use a modded controller at the exact same speed a person can pull the trigger the balance would be fine.

As it is the Duvolle Tactical is now a pricey addition to my gun collection and won't be seeing a battlefield any time soon. It jamms too often for me to consider it as my weapon of choice any longer.

Also... you want game-breaking? How about the free murder taxis driving around? Where's the fix for that?

First of all how many years in the future is this weapon supposed to be? And we're still so limited by cycling weapon mechanics?
While at the same time, other fps games replicating real life weapons aren't held back by these mechanics? AND they seem to manage just fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting a single fire AR to fire as fast as you can personally push R1. That's how every single fire AR ive ever used has always worked. Why should dust be different?

Remove Free LAV's. Kinda simple....


Peace, Godin

Instead of crying over this why not look at THE SCRAMBLER RIFLE. This is the most balance i have seen in this game. Lazer's were OP in last build The TAC AR were OP I say GREAT JOB CCP :) Im not getting by the same gun over and over because a full squad of 6 use OP guns now. QQ that they nerfed ur OP as hell gun.

People like this are why this game is going lose a lot of its best players and soon you'll see nothing but heavies with ARs, caldari logi (super assaults), and death taxis. I bet he even uses nothing but a mass driver and a flaylock. The SCR takes way too much PG and F*** over heating and F*** sinking sp into another soon to be nerfed class.

I shouldn't have to change up my gaming style every time some noob wants to cry about dying too much and blame it on what ever weapon kills them the most. people crying "OP" WILL ruin this game. Before anyone can claim "OP" on Dust, they should be required to first familiarize themselves with the cut throat world of eve. There's always going to be someone with 5x your sp that's going to come along and destroy you no madder how much you cry "OP"

And people that justify the TAR nerf by saying the ROF emulates real gun mechanics. Go shoot real guns. This is a fantasy fps set in the FUTURE. So stop trying to apply the restraints of modern technology to Dust. it just makes you look silly.

and has nobody ever used a single fire AR in any other game? because every one ive ever used has pretty much worked the same way. THEY ALL FIRE AS FAST AS YOU CAN SHOOT. yet nobody cries about it there so why are dust players such babies about it? yeah the hip fire was way too accurate and it had a little too much power in each shot, but these problems could've been dealt with a lot more intelligently. plus, why is this the gun everyone wanted to attack? There are so many more important aspects of the game that need balancing. Because while everyone sits and QQs the TAR to death, there are people out there in full proto losing millions of ISK to death taxis and entry level mass drivers fresh out of the academy.

And people that justify the TAR nerf by saying the ROF emulates real gun mechanics. Go shoot real guns. This is a fantasy fps set in the FUTURE. So stop trying to apply the restraints of modern technology to Dust. it just makes you look silly.

and has nobody ever used a single fire AR in any other game? because every one ive ever used has pretty much worked the same way. THEY ALL FIRE AS FAST AS YOU CAN SHOOT.

I've adapted to the GLU-5, it's not what it once was but it can still get you kills as long as you keep the enemy at arms reach.

The Duvolle TAR needs something though. It's identical to the GLU-5 but does 4 HP more damage per shot for a price tag that's 4 times as large.

The SCR is a freaking beast. the overheat and the PG usage are needed.

CCP will not stop adding new weapons, modules and equipment. You'll have to change your playstyle accordingly for each new release. I do agree with you in that people should think twice about calling something OP, but having the TAC AR governed by the same skill tree as the regular AR was unbalanced. Now it's just an extra tool for the AR user - not a weapon in and of itself. .

1. I support the ROF nerf not because of the "reel gunz" thing, but because the TAC AR shouldn't be a great weapon. It should be a tool to give the AR user some flexibility because they specced into a short range weapon. shotgunners and HMG users have no such option. Consider yourself lucky.


2. everyone wanted to "attack" the tac AR because it was unbalanced and it made the AR skill tree a 2-for-1 skill. that's pretty freaking unbalanced if you ask me.

And people that justify crying about the TAR nerf by saying it's not how single fire ARs work in any other FPS game, go play other those other FPS games. This is Dust, so stop trying to apply the standards of other games to it. It just makes you look silly.

that's why i'm so frustrated. changing you gaming style in Dust means millions of potentially wasted sp. when you sink so much time and so many points into something you kinda hope for a little more stability in that branch of the skill tree.

that's the only sensible argument favoring the TAC nerf. I can definitely see how someone could've looked at the AR class as having a little too much to offer, but I do still think lowering the damage could've solved the problem without blocking the ROF so much. The block just makes the gun seem sluggish and glitchy. not sure if its just lag or over processing but the bullets just seem to come out at an extremely unstable rate which is more then annoying.

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I know its not like any other FPS, but if CCP is going to call it a single fire AR it should act like one. If not they could've just thrown a scope on the breach, gave it a little more range, and called it a day.

The adjusted firerate is absolutely horrendous, I know we're trying to avoid "modded controllers" here and all that, but the whole point of using the weapons was I could fire as fast as I could pull the trigger

no, the point of the weapon was to give AR users a long range option. ROF has nothing to do with that objective.

The TAC AR is doing that job just fine still.

ROF has to do with the weapon actually being viable or not, like I said, you guys are going to get this game nerfed into oblivion and it will be terrible, a slight ROF boost would be perfect, like the OP said 500 odd. Much love for quoting half that post and completely missing the point by the way.

The AR still is king of CQB, so that SP isn't wasted. try building a fit that's more of a close range brawler. I guarantee you that you have the SP to do so. .

Devs have already mentioned that they don't want any more big sweeping changes, so you can expect a bit more stability in the skill trees.

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That second half wasn't important. I don't care that the scrambler fires as fast as you can pull the trigger - the scrambler overheats. I only quoted the part I cared to comment on, but since you brought it up -

It's a good thing that there are a lot of scramblers out there. It means there is more weapon diversity out there. That's a great thing.

More scramblers means armor tanking will be more important, which will then make the mass driver and HMG more useful as there will be less people with 450+shields running around. The MD will get even better once the LR is unfucked for the same reason.

the Minmatar combat rifle will deal kinetic damage so having some people be armor tankers is rather essential to that gun being useful.

and I didn't miss your point. I disagreed to your point. the Tac AR doesn't need to fire as fast as you pull the trigger.

Damnit I know I do run standard ARs now and do just as good but still....... I really ****ing miss my TAR man cant blame a guy for defending his weapon of choice after putting up with so much change for so long.

No, it certainly needs a ROF boost, you are wrong.