DUST Search - For CCP Wolfman - Lets discuss the TAC Changes

Draco Cerberus wrote:

The Duvolle Tactical is a proto weapon and should be treated as such by its stats. There is no logical reason for the clip size to be the same as the GLU-5 TAC. Every other AR has a clip size increase from the base to proto levels and this should be carried down the line.

If the ROF is the main issue that Devs/players are seeing then consider how a real gun fires, pull the trigger fire a shot. This isn't doing 50 caliber style damage where we are getting one shot one kill deaths but rather a modded controller issue. 500 rpm would be an acceptable amount but 400rpm is easy to misfire while ADS or from hip fire as it is necessary to rapidly depress your trigger if you want to get a kill. If you either increased the damage by 40-60 or increased the ROF to 500 where it is possible to use a modded controller at the exact same speed a person can pull the trigger the balance would be fine.

As it is the Duvolle Tactical is now a pricey addition to my gun collection and won't be seeing a battlefield any time soon. It jamms too often for me to consider it as my weapon of choice any longer.


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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 639	Posted - 2013.06.06 15:37:00 - [1] - Quote Hipfire accuracy was reduced so that the "Long-range tactical weapon" was not also an excellent CQC weapon. The rationale there (which is the same for it being a "more powerful gun") is that it's firing more powerful/larger ammo that consume more space in a clip and increase the kick (just like a real rifle). Reducing the hipfire accuracy to limit the roles to which a single weapon could perform was probably one of the most important balance changes.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 642	Posted - 2013.06.06 19:26:00 - [2] - Quote Quote: 1 - Keep the clip size where it is for the Duvolle... but slightly higher (perhaps 20, or 22) for the GLU. It is a lower damage gun, and should therefore have more rounds. 2 - Drop the damage on TACs across the board - in the mid-70s is too high.... range should be mid 50s.... so drop a full 20 points per round. There should also be a larger gradient between the weapons... GLU should have 2-4 damage points less than the Duvolle, but have a couple extra rounds in the magazine. Duvolle should have higher damage, but fewer rounds. 3 - At the very least, return hip-fire accuracy to the same level as other ARs. Perhaps play with the accuracy of the various tiers.... GLU slightly more accurate, less damage. Duvolle less accurate, more damage. 4 - Rate of fire - Higher than the current 400, but less than the Breach's ~540. Perhaps a flat 500, hard capped to get rid of the "modded controllers", or people like me who use KB/M 1. I mentioned this elsewhere, but the TAR has a higher clip-size than other DMRs in games like Reach, Halo 4, and Killzone 3. It's also roughly comparable to the sort of clip-size in today's DMRs (10-20 being normal). I think they typically do clip-size by weapon type anyhow, so differences according to GLU vs. Duvolle TAR would be abnormal. The Duvolle assault vs. Standard Assault have the same clip-size, right? So, round power/damage is a factor of tier not ammunition or slug-size (which is seemingly determined by weapon type. 2. It's possible they could weather a damage drop, but I think damage-high, low RoF is pretty fitting with the role of a DMR sort of gun. As far as the gradient.... that's sort of an issue across all the weapons in the game. The price difference between proto and standard vs. the actual change in weapon stats is often seemingly small. 3. Already mentioned this, but the hip-fire accuracy change was to keep it to a role. Right now, the Breach assault rifle has lower damage, but better hip-fire accuracy. The idea is that you're going to need that when using the weapon close range. If the tactical-gun has the CQC accuracy of the "close-range" Breach gun, but with more damage - you've rendered the breach pointless. The accuracy down the scope is still superb, as fitting a mid/long-range rifle. 4. I think a RoF hit was needed, though I can't speak to the current rate of fire - I only tried it prior. A breach-like slower rate of fire for a rifle with more damage than a breach seems logical. In both cases the guns are paying for higher stopping power with a slower rate of fire. The Breach's RoF is 400 btw, so it's not slower than the Breach - they're the same. Any attempt at "true to life" sorts of RoF with high-caliber semi-automatics aren't going to let you maintain any sort of accuracy if firing from the hip, or in rapid succession while strafing and ADS. The games that do let that happen are borderline-ridiculous with respect to mechanics. In short, I think the changes are fine and reasonable, and the gun is still quite effective. I'd even say they might want to keep an eye on the damage output. Should it have higher damage than the breach when the breach forces you to be right next to someone? Blaster-tech is supposed to excel at short range, which would suggest the stats should favor the closer-range weapons with the AR. The niche with Blasters is supposed to be high rate of fire, high damage, but very short range. If anything, the in-game descriptions imply harsher changes might've been warranted. The Breach is described as "High Damage Low RoF" while the Tactical is described as "Medium damage, Single shot, with scope". That suggests the Breach should be higher damage than the tactical, and "single shot" as opposed to "Low RoF" would seem to suggest that the Tactical would be firing even slower than the Breach. Going by that, we'd need higher damage on the Breach or lower damage on the Tactical (or some combination) and even lower RoF on the Tactical. This is not to suggest that I think all the weapons are balanced, but I think the TAR balancing in particular was pretty well thought out. For example, the Scrambler probably needs its heat build-up to be changed to "per-shot" instead of "per-second", it has a passive skill that does nothing for the assault variant, the pulse-laser tech should out-range blaster tech, and if it is meant to be the racial-AR that defaults to a tactical setup it probably needs some other changes as well (perhaps higher ammo consumption on charge shots, etc.). Other weapons have issues as well. The TAR changes... sensible though.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 663	Posted - 2013.06.07 10:57:00 - [3] - Quote Confirms my suspicions and what I've seen. It's still a great weapon, and people are whining because it's not the super-best-end-all-wonder-weapon that it once was.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 744	Posted - 2013.06.10 15:31:00 - [4] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: The Duvolle Tactical is a proto weapon and should be treated as such by its stats. There is no logical reason for the clip size to be the same as the GLU-5 TAC. Every other AR has a clip size increase from the base to proto levels and this should be carried down the line. If the ROF is the main issue that Devs/players are seeing then consider how a real gun fires, pull the trigger fire a shot. This isn't doing 50 caliber style damage where we are getting one shot one kill deaths but rather a modded controller issue. 500 rpm would be an acceptable amount but 400rpm is easy to misfire while ADS or from hip fire as it is necessary to rapidly depress your trigger if you want to get a kill. If you either increased the damage by 40-60 or increased the ROF to 500 where it is possible to use a modded controller at the exact same speed a person can pull the trigger the balance would be fine. As it is the Duvolle Tactical is now a pricey addition to my gun collection and won't be seeing a battlefield any time soon. It jamms too often for me to consider it as my weapon of choice any longer. Standard AR to Duvolle AR? 60 clip to 60 clip. No size change. If you're comparing militia - there are no militia variants - just the standard. Militia isn't base either, it's the "worse than base" tier. They don't need to consider how a real gun fires to make guns in a fantasy universe. Firing slugs of plasma might actually be a lot tougher than a 50 caliber slug anyway, if the damage on HMGs is any indication. A modern firearm has more in common with a musket than some sort of plasma-blaster technology. People still manage to be quite effective with the Tactical rifle; it is unfortunate a more normal DMR style doesn't work for you. Fortunately, your SP aren't wasted like other people who've experienced nerfs. You still have solid options within the AR tree.