Players should liaise with their corporations to ensure ISK donations are returned to the original character otherwise all characters and corporations involved in ISK laundering will be subject to further ISK reversal. Users found to have abused corp donations may be subject to punitive actions against their accounts however such cases will be addressed on their own merits and handled on a case by case basis.

This thread contains what I think is a fairly good representation of one of the issues I have with CCP.



Are you threatening us based on an issue that you created and then failed to adequately communicate about, deciding that a small portion of the playerbase being notified would do? I'm not engaging in the right and wrong of that entire debacle, but this not the right way to engage with a forum community about it.

Whoever you guys have writing the script you use to interact with players needs to go back to scamming cash out of people with fraudulent takedown notices. Any claims you make to be developing a community here go out the window when you address us in this corporate tone and highlight to everyone that you're viewing us as customers who need to be strictly managed. It doesn't convince the reader that you're professionals like you may think it does.

You could achieve the exact same thing while convincing these customers that you were engaging them as friends if you had any skill whatsoever in customer relations.

Welcome to the future, CCP, where none of the businesses that matter have to use tools like the corporate tone to remind their customers that they're big important businesspeople, and rather give the impression that customers are valued as people and friends. I suggest giving it a shot.

I had CPM tell me explicitly that CCP HAD to PUNISH the players for EXPLOITING. CCP made all the mistakes here, but even our "appointed representation" believes the players should burden the consequences or leave. And I was also told it doesn't matter if they leave... great long term thinking there.

The negative nancys shouldn't have been greedy fuckwits to begin with.

You drag CCP over the coals for their "greed is good" mentality though in reality the playerbase is just as greedy.

Quit crying, suck it up and get to grinding.

Either that or GTFO.

You drag CCP over the coals for their "greed is good" mentality though in reality the playerbase is just as greedy.

Isn't it literally a business's business how they choose to talk to their customers?

You sir, are a verified idiot. CCP took more money than they gave, and 90% of the playerbase doesn't have a clue why they were given or lost money. The issue is shoddy business practices. Not the monopoly money.

(For the record I am fine, but I have seen many players who did nothing wrong but now cannot play the game, and I feel for them).

You didn't read the post and instead responded as if I had made an argument that I did not make.

That's called a strawman argument and it's a logical fallacy. Kindly, if you wish to reply in future, respond to arguments that are actually being made.

Yes, and it's up to their customers to provide feedback to that business on whether that communication is working or just alienating them.

Oh, sorry, sorry

/sarcasm

I was responding with that portion of my post to the reference by VEXation Gunn about the internal email.

Well i don't want liars cheats and trolls like IMP to be getting free money. How should CCP talk when they are defending my interests as a customer of theirs?

Oh wait nevermind you already quoted that response.

Posts about the ISK reversal are off topic and are being reported as such. This thread is for feedback about CCP's business->player communications.

I would say that the thread is for feedback about "CCP's business->player communication over the ISK reversal", therefore, making both valid topics of conversation.

You sir, are a verified idiot. CCP took more money than they gave, and 90% of the playerbase doesn't have a clue why they were given or lost money. The issue is shoddy business practices. Not the monopoly money.

(For the record I am fine, but I have seen many players who did nothing wrong but now cannot play the game, and I feel for them).

You guys are morons end of story, you KNEW 100% this was gunna happen hence why you spent it, thinking surer maybe if I spend it they can't take it away. You're an idiot end of story and you should leave this game

Posts about the ISK reversal are off topic and are being reported as such. This thread is for feedback about CCP's business->player communications.

So they should put in petitions or forum posts in that stickied thread so CCP can go back over and fix their wallets.

If someone did nothing wrong, they have no reason to fear punitive action.

what business player communication

You guys are morons end of story, you KNEW 100% this was gunna happen hence why you spent it, thinking surer maybe if I spend it they can't take it away. You're an idiot end of story and you should leave this game

Yeah, and 90+% of the players didn't. I speak out for them, and you don't care about this game if you just want them to leave. CCP isn't making money back off their investment so far. You think milking 10k players is going to work out for them for the 20 years to max the current skill queue, let alone pay to provide new content?

Alright, guys, time for some real talk Ric Barlom style. Because, guys, I don't know about you but personally I'm kind of sick and tired of this BS entitled attitude that plagues the western world these days, man! I mean my God people expect to be treated like they are kings and queens by you just because they buy a product or service from you. At the same time, man, the very same people treat you like dirt just because they buy a product or service from you.

Now if everyone followed that behaviour pattern, and I know a lot of people do, then the only people who would be treated somewhat good, would be the people who provide no products or services, but instead consume stuff with welfare checks! All I can tell you about that, is that I think it's ****** up! Here's a radical idea for you guys: How about we just treat people like people. How about we treat nice people nicely and how about if we treat cunty people like, we all know how they should be treated!

Alright, guys, time for some real talk Ric Barlom style. Because, guys, I don't know about you but personally I'm kind of sick and tired of this BS entitled attitude that plagues the western world these days, man! I mean my God people expect to be treated like they are kings and queens by you just because they buy a product or service from you. At the same time, man, the very same people treat you like dirt just because they buy a product or service from you.

Now if everyone followed that behaviour pattern, and I know a lot of people do, then the only people who would be treated somewhat good, would be the people who provide no products or services, but instead consume stuff with welfare checks! All I can tell you about that, is that I think it's ****** up! Here's a radical idea for you guys: How about we just treat people like people. How about we treat nice people nicely and how about if we treat cunty people like, we all know how they should be treated!

What's most amusing is members of CPM using things like AFK and AWOXing as legitimate "tactics", because CCP screwed up, then turning around and laughing at those effected by CCPs latest blunder.

It's just funny.

if only ccp was capable rick. dont hold your breath

I had CPM tell me explicitly that CCP HAD to PUNISH the players for EXPLOITING. CCP made all the mistakes here, but even our "appointed representation" believes the players should burden the consequences or leave. And I was also told it doesn't matter if they leave... great long term thinking there.

You're misinterpreting (Willingly or not) what I said, on IRC.

What I said was "In any case where there's a chance of exploitation, CCP always throws in a caveat like that as a warning, otherwise people who knowingly abused something for personal gain have free reign because there was 'no warning'.

I was referring to the wording of the post, which I am completely fine with. The post says that if you didn't knowingly abuse anything, you won't have anything to worry about.

Some people are apparently 'missing' ISK, which is a problem. The wording of the post however, is not.

EDIT:

While CCP is notorious for bad communication in general, this is something we are trying to push for. We've been grilling them about moving 'news' stuff away from the launcher (Which everyone skips) and ingame 'prompts' (which everyone closes as fast as possible so they can keep shooting) and into stuff like a 'news' tab in the neocom, or even something as simple as a mass mail.

If people were got an extra 1-5m ISK I can see spending it and not realizing that it was a mistake on CCPs part. But that's also not game breaking for the person might be forced to run militia for a day or two but then you would be back in the black. But people that are getting 100m+ then giving it to your corp or spending it all should know better then expect to keep it. Its the same as a bank error or a mistake on your pay check where they give you extra money, the bank will come and take that money out of your account. Or if its your pay check there is a good chance they will dock pay from your next few checks to make up for the mistake. CCP also stated that if you did blow all your cash then they would they would go in a take the items away to get you where your not negative. As for not knowing about there being an issue there was a giant pop up in game telling you about it.

People who spent it who don't buy aur, can't even run militia. Have you ever run a negative isk account. There is a reason it is the punishment for botting/RMTing because it is a freaking nightmare.

Why are you bringing corporations into this?

I go to the bank.
[some other stuff]

You know how many times I was viewed as a AWOXer simply because I was in betamax.... More then I can count.... Most of the time it was the imperfects doing so....

Um, Starter Fits?

I think CCP did a great job communicating. Then again I actually pay attention to them. Also I understand that they are in semi uncharted territory here. If you guys wanna boycott or file complaints, that's your right and by all means do it. I for one, am not displeased with them or their practices. The playerbase however leaves something to be desired.

How should we treat people if we're addressing everyone at once, Ric?

Run 4 fits, that are bad fits, with no variation, for a week? What kind of person puts up with that when all they want to do is log in and play the game?

I think you missed the point, dude.

You're still missing the point.

Irrelevant. Also, you're trying to justify this stupid behaviour because someone else was allegedly guilty of the same stupid behaviour, while engaging in the stupid behaviour yourself.

I go to the bank.

I withdraw $50 the bank accidentally gives me $10,000.

Do you really think I should spend that money?

Do you really think I will not be put into prison of I hide it and refuse to give it back?


Anyway this is an exaggeration.

What really happens is some cashier at a 7/11 gives you a buck or two extra in change and you notice it and keep the money anyway.

You are an *sshole and crook if you do this....no one should feel sorry for you if that cashier talks smack about you. They should cheer it on.

...

Three cheers for CCP for talking smack to *ssholes and crooks.

You gave advice about how to address people based on the kind of people they are.

The thread is about making global announcements.

I think you missed the point and I tried to give you an opportunity to address it.

When it comes to global announcements, man and let me tell you the thing about global announcement. See there's no such thing as global announcement, because at the end of the day, man, there's a specific audience for every message no matter if it's public. See where I'm going with this? Bottom line, the guys who you are primarily addressing should be addressed the way they deserve to be addressed.

This is ridiculous. This company simply has stated I'm a firm manner that if you have done wrong then you will be punished..

The thread is about making global announcements.

Sure, I guess you could interpret "global" literally meaning everyone in the world, but why would you when there are alternative definitions that work better?

CCP made the mistake and want to punish the player base over it? I received about 200 million ISK due to their blunder. I would have given it to my corp as well but didn't have the time. If CCP had put gave me negative 200million for their idiotic incompetence I would have probably quit since I couldn't have purchased any weapons, dropsuits, or anything for who knows how long.

That's ridiculous to blame the player base for their moronic foolishness.

Mith - why do you even bother? Half these replies don't even touch your topic. Flag them for trolling - the post will get deleted and they'll get a warning. After 3 they get a ban.

And CCP's business practice is similar to how a player interaction would work - we're just another online guy to them. If that bothers enough people they'll cut the cash flow and CCP will do something. If not then CCP can continue to **** up and make us pay for it.

Half these replies don't even touch your topic. Flag them for trolling

You're still missing the point.

Yeah, done.

Also, nice troll response, Ric. Will make a note to self to address you as a cunty person in future.

Well if you define global as something that can be targeted for cunty people who tried to take advantage of a mistake done by CCP, then that's fine too.

Posts about the ISK reversal are off topic and are being reported as such. This thread is for feedback about CCP's business->player communications.

Really, trolling your own thread?

You don't get to "own" your own threads y'know... and I'm sure you do know.

I really thought you were more of a considerate guy when it comes to peoples problems. Seems you just like to talk and act tough. Guess all that non-sense you spouted about AFK farming hurting players experience was just a convenient excuse for you to complain about others.

Guess that explains why you're corp hopping.

Ric - people have been given cash by CCP before the last respec - and we just had another. A lot of people would of assumed it was just another repeat of that. If they woke up early enough and played around with the cash they thought they had they would of never known CCP plans to **** them.

I really thought you were more of a considerate guy when it comes to peoples problems. Seems you just like to talk and act tough. Guess all that non-sense you spouted about AFK farming hurting players experience was just a convenient excuse for you to complain about others.

Guess that explains why you're corp hopping.

I had CPM tell me explicitly that CCP HAD to PUNISH the players for EXPLOITING. CCP made all the mistakes here, but even our "appointed representation" believes the players should burden the consequences or leave. And I was also told it doesn't matter if they leave... great long term thinking there.

Well here's the thing, dude, and I don't know what anyone else was thinking when they saw their money DOUBLE, but I sure as hell knew I didn't spend 450mil on skill books. I sure as hell know exactly how to check how much the skill books cost and I'm sure as hell able to check that out too.

Now if somebody got a few mil, and thought okay these were the skillbook costs, he would have spend about that amount when speccing again, so there's no way of going negative 100 million without screwing up yourself. And yeah, I'm not saying CCP didn't screw up! They absolutely screwed up. I'm also not saying that they couldn't improving their messaging. What I am saying though is that if their messaging sucks, then the messaging of the community is absolutely disgustingly abysmal!

Welcome to the future, CCP, where none of the businesses that matter have to use tools like the corporate tone to remind their customers that they're big important businesspeople, and rather give the impression that customers are valued as people and friends. I suggest giving it a shot.

Submit a claim junior... they'll fix your wittle negative iskies problem.

CCP did not make "all the mistakes" Going on a spending spree with Isk they didn't earn was a mistake made by the players.

Well here's the thing, dude, and I don't know what anyone else was thinking when they saw their money DOUBLE, but I sure as hell knew I didn't spend 450mil on skill books. I sure as hell know exactly how to check how much the skill books cost and I'm sure as hell able to check that out too.

Now if somebody got a few mil, and thought okay these were the skillbook costs, he would have spend about that amount when speccing again, so there's no way of going negative 100 million without screwing up yourself. And yeah, I'm not saying CCP didn't screw up! They absolutely screwed up. I'm also not saying that they couldn't improving their messaging. What I am saying though is that if their messaging sucks, then the messaging of the community is absolutely disgustingly abysmal!

BTW. before accusing someone of corp hopping, I'd first check my facts.

Are you an idiot? The thread has a topic - stick to it. He does get to control it since he set the topic. Derailing the thread counts as trolling and can get you suspended.

I would know as ric said. Lol

Yeah, and 90+% of the players didn't. I speak out for them, and you don't care about this game if you just want them to leave. CCP isn't making money back off their investment so far. You think milking 10k players is going to work out for them for the 20 years to max the current skill queue, let alone pay to provide new content?

Oh my bad - they sold you to SA didn't they? I know I've heard from a few you've got potential - you just weren't in the right team.

Wish ya luck. :3

And I mostly agree with your above post.

The thread is about a long-standing situation, rather than about this particular event.

I guess it was expecting too much for forum derps to think beyond the drama of the day.

As soon as you post something in GD it becomes the property of GD and off topic abounds. Given your post history, you know this.

Are you an idiot? The thread has a topic - stick to it. He does get to control it since he set the topic. Derailing the thread counts as trolling and can get you suspended.

I would know as ric said. Lol

Why would anyone even engage with Crash Monster?

People are responding to what they see as the topic at hand or to particular points. Get a grip!

So - because your blind it's okay to be off topic? Lol.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

*Ahem*

I know GD is used to there freedom but if an OP wants to enforce that his topic should be the main concern he has all the right.

on-topic; our good friend Mithridates VI seems to be projecting his own opinions and desires on others. A simple case of "I feel this way, surely everyone else does as well".

You still don't get to own your own thread and enforce exactly what people wish to discuss. That's childish at best. By the way, you are off topic too.

Well, if we're all going to be rule lawyers, then all the personal attacks will have to stop as well

He enforced the OP and you still keep saying this? How desperate to prove a point are you?

You still don't get to own your own thread and enforce exactly what people wish to discuss. That's childish at best. By the way, you are off topic too.

EDIT: You might note my original post DID mention that CCP could have done better. I also discussed the tone of the forum and how that probably doesn't help. That would seem to be on topic. Maybe you missed that or is this entire thread just a sad tear collecting troll job?

Probably not as desperate as you. I'm not butthurt because my "corporation" has to give back monies.

The suggestion that I think I own the thread is ridiculous and that you continue to push that betrays you as a troll.

Give an example of where I speak on behalf of everyone else?

I'm prepare to accept my punishment :)

Update 11:30 May 29th UTC
An issue that occurred after downtime on the 28th of May has granted many characters more ISK than they should have. Players are advised not to spend ISK that they did not acquire though normal game play as this ISK is scheduled to be reversed as soon as possible. Players who have spent more ISK than they were entitled to should refer to the Over-spending section of this post, and should be aware that their characters may be subject to negative wallet balances. Players should liaise with their corporations to ensure ISK donations are returned to the original character otherwise all characters and corporations involved in ISK laundering will be subject to further ISK reversal. Users found to have abused corp donations may be subject to punitive actions against their accounts however such cases will be addressed on their own merits and handled on a case by case basis.

So - you're not desperately trying to cover your ass from being wrong? My bad - I thought you were just trying to make excuses after calling OP out on wanting to stay on topic.

First sentence of your post:

Are you threatening[i] us[/i]

Oh, I thought you were serious.

I'm not going to type in E-Prime with an emphasis on subjectivity for the reading impaired. Sorry.

Also, there are better sentences you could have chosen if that was your aim. It's very simple to ask whether an action is directed at a group without speaking on behalf of that group.

What I find interesting is that you didn't quote the entire post, or at least the section where you just plucked the OP from...

Oh, I know. I'm just eating my lunch and entertaining myself at work. Don't mind me

Me too. I had poached eggs on toast. What did you have?

My feelings aren't hurt, this isn't about this specific community announcement, it's about CCP's modus operandi when it comes to interacting with the players, which I feel is detrimental to the development of an online community.

I do think it's fair to discuss the ISK gaffe issue as an example -- whether it is the particular reason for your OP or not.

Again, while I agree that CCP could do things better I really would suggest that the online community is the most detrimental factor with respect to having an online community. I think CCP, if they don't already, should simply focus on those posts and threads that are conducted in a reasonably mature and intelligent manner. So, not sure they need to read this forum area very much at all.

For me, the forum, or at least general discussion, is an extension of the game. It's fun. Sometimes I'll even put the controller down to play forum warrior for a while (hoping when I go back I'll get a new map).

/reason

I quoted the sections I was responding to and linked to the post. You seem to be implying that I was dishonest with my sampling. I wasn't, the thread that was plucked from was too long for it to be practical to quote it all, so I linked the whole thing.

My feelings aren't hurt, this isn't about this specific community announcement, it's about CCP's modus operandi when it comes to interacting with the players, which I feel is detrimental to the development of an online community.

Me too. I had poached eggs on toast. What did you have?

Reported for off topic.

As far as I know, you can do so silently and have to actively decide to make a post announcing such. These posts aren't made automatically by the reporting function.

So, reported for off topic.

Removed some trolling from this thread.

This thread contains what I think is a fairly good representation of one of the issues I have with CCP.



Are you threatening us based on an issue that you created and then failed to adequately communicate about, deciding that a small portion of the playerbase being notified would do? I'm not engaging in the right and wrong of that entire debacle, but this not the right way to engage with a forum community about it.

Whoever you guys have writing the script you use to interact with players needs to go back to scamming cash out of people with fraudulent takedown notices. Any claims you make to be developing a community here go out the window when you address us in this corporate tone and highlight to everyone that you're viewing us as customers who need to be strictly managed. It doesn't convince the reader that you're professionals like you may think it does.

You could achieve the exact same thing while convincing these customers that you were engaging them as friends if you had any skill whatsoever in customer relations.

Welcome to the future, CCP, where none of the businesses that matter have to use tools like the corporate tone to remind their customers that they're big important businesspeople, and rather give the impression that customers are valued as people and friends. I suggest giving it a shot.

EDIT: A couple of posts in, this thread gets derailed by fail. Until it gets tidied up by moderators, I suggest not reading it all.

I had CPM tell me explicitly that CCP HAD to PUNISH the players for EXPLOITING. CCP made all the mistakes here, but even our "appointed representation" believes the players should burden the consequences or leave. And I was also told it doesn't matter if they leave... great long term thinking there.

The business to player communication highlighted in the OP, where they mistake the forum for a tense business to business negotiation and decide to offer veiled hostility through formal tone.

Still off topic, warning you so you stop making them but you seem a bit dense and aren't taking the hint.

Reported again.

I had CPM tell me explicitly that CCP HAD to PUNISH the players for EXPLOITING. CCP made all the mistakes here, but even our "appointed representation" believes the players should burden the consequences or leave. And I was also told it doesn't matter if they leave... great long term thinking there.