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Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup.
Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 04:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you.
Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 05:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you're on a bad connection dropships are impossible to fly. Or were for me on a bad server in previous game builds.
Rather liking the idea of there really being vector thrust over the current rotating engine people have been accidentally calling vector thrust. |
AmlSeb
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 08:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:If you're on a bad connection dropships are impossible to fly. Or were for me on a bad server in previous game builds.
Rather liking the idea of there really being vector thrust over the current rotating engine people have been accidentally calling vector thrust.
Vector thrust is better for planes as you can direct the thrust only in a small cone around the engine. The engines have more directions to regulate the thrust in and are so better for a helicopter like aircraft. Vector thrust also has a high loss of power so the would be quite more slowly when performing actions. |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 03:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster.
go play blazing angels or a side scroller, those are real noob friendly, or you can practice and get better.
|
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 03:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
I was thinking the other day why helicopters in BF3 feel so much better to fly than dropships in Dust and I must say that the key thing is a fixed camera. This gives you a much better sense of control. It doesn't dumb it down, it just makes it better. At least let us fix the camera as an option. And in BF3 if you wanted to look around you simply hold Down on the d-pad and instead of turning your vehicle you turn your head, works well. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 04:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:I was thinking the other day why helicopters in BF3 feel so much better to fly than dropships in Dust and I must say that the key thing is a fixed camera. This gives you a much better sense of control. It doesn't dumb it down, it just makes it better. At least let us fix the camera as an option. And in BF3 if you wanted to look around you simply hold Down on the d-pad and instead of turning your vehicle you turn your head, works well.
Since the D-Pad is used in DUST this could be done with R3.
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Carbos Tiberior
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 05:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
DRaven DeMort wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. go play blazing angels or a side scroller, those are real noob friendly, or you can practice and get better.
I would not be such rude if I didn't know what he means. The controls he suggests might be easier to learn but they are also really good even in real life. I have been flying RC helicopters for years and this are the basic controls for them with one small difference: hrust is controlled by the right stick. They work pretty well because you can control the aircraft very percise. Watch a video on youtube and you will see. |
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CCP Blam!
C C P C C P Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping. |
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Andius Fidelitas
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hurrah Blam! |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Carbos Tiberior wrote:DRaven DeMort wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. go play blazing angels or a side scroller, those are real noob friendly, or you can practice and get better. I would not be such rude if I didn't know what he means. The controls he suggests might be easier to learn but they are also really good even in real life. I have been flying RC helicopters for years and this are the basic controls for them with one small difference: hrust is controlled by the right stick. They work pretty well because you can control the aircraft very percise. Watch a video on youtube and you will see.
I fly rc aswell but i fly jp style so my thrust and yaw are on the right stick and the pitch and roll are on the left stick. i do wish thrust was on the stick as well, but to limit the agility of a craft is to want to play a side scroller. i fly collective pitch walkera heli and would not want my heli to only fly like a brick up down left right i 3d, this guy is a noob who does not want to learn. |
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CCP Blam!
C C P C C P Alliance
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Let me expand on the ground cam, and general aiming camera status.
I do in fact plan on putting in a ground camera when we are able to release our Bomber variant of the dropship, and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. There's positives and negatives for both and a bit of design logistics to take care of there.
The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). These improvements require code fixes that I am working directly with a programmer on (alas Blam! is a Game Designer ;) ) |
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DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:Let me expand on the ground cam, and general aiming camera status.
I do in fact plan on putting in a ground camera when we are able to release our Bomber variant of the dropship, and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. There's positives and negatives for both and a bit of design logistics to take care of there.
The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). These improvements require code fixes that I am working directly with a programmer on (alas Blam! is a Game Designer ;) )
From a pilots prospective I would like to see a dropship with a cockpit kinda like what you showed at fan-fest with your new VR space combat sim concept.
What I suggest is that you guys open up the control customization options to allow us to use the right stick for thrust as well as yaw, and allow us to use the L2 and R2 to pan left and right in the cockpit, as these buttons are pressure sensitive and would allow us to see what threats are to our left and right at particular left and right degrees of view. Once we release the lets say the L2 button that makes us look left the camera would snap back to center.
Another recommendation would be to have an altimeter, as well as a launch/ lock warning system within our drop-ships.
The warning system could be overlaid on the compass at the top right hand of the screen indicating when and were the lock is coming from.
From a gunners prospective I think that having the turret comeback to center would be counter productive and or counter intuitive as I would find myself fighting the turret from going back to center.
Longer ranges for turrets on dropships would not hurt i know assault dropships tend to almost slam into ground because the turret range is so short. |
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CCP Blam!
C C P C C P Alliance
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 07:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
This scheme doesn't seem to restore control to a gun camera. Opening up control customization is a bit of a task since we need to provide a whole new menu for this, and also implement the logic to ensure that mappings that cannot work with particular actions cannot be assigned - say for example putting infantry aiming on "X". Open customization is on the roadmap as part of a future release.
We do have plans for a full dropship HUD as well as HUD updates to all other vehicles. We also have plans to do Lock-On warning indicators, countermeasures, and lock-on for a certain subset of turrets. |
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Orion Decline
Reckoners
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 07:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Idea that would help a LOT with this.
FULLY MAPPABLE CONTROLS
Give us TOTAL freedom to map ANY function to ANY button. Left, right, up, down on each stick can be mapped as the player sees fit. Let us map camera and vehicle tilt independently WHERE WE WANT THEM. Let us map accelerate and reverse on our tanks to R2 and L2 (also, why was that not an option when we can do it with LAVs?). LET US ACTUALLY CUSTOMISE OUR CONTROLS.
Please? Thank you.
This would also allow for more functions than there are buttons on the controller, and we can choose which ones suit us best. |
Hellsatano
Academy Inferno CRONOS.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 07:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote: Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster.
bla bla bla la la la.
Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed"
only one thing you said right- camera of dropship
R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 07:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:This scheme doesn't seem to restore control to a gun camera. Opening up control customization is a bit of a task since we need to provide a whole new menu for this, and also implement the logic to ensure that mappings that cannot work with particular actions cannot be assigned - say for example putting infantry aiming on "X". Open customization is on the roadmap as part of a future release.
We do have plans for a full dropship HUD as well as HUD updates to all other vehicles. We also have plans to do Lock-On warning indicators, countermeasures, and lock-on for a certain subset of turrets.
No my idea was not about restoring control to the gun camera but rather to provide a more intuitive as well as immersive piloting experience for veteran pilots who wish to be deeply engaged in their aviator roles.
I feel that the current First person view for the dropship pilot is very constrictive and lacks visual clues which allow us to maintain spacial awareness. Will the hud be overlaid on top of the current view?
A hover indicator would be nice as well
For example O----X means your moving left, X----O means your moving right
The O Below the X means your moving forward The O Above the X means your moving backwards The O and The X together means you are in a hover
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Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 11:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE
This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice.
DRaven DeMort wrote: I fly rc aswell but i fly jp style so my thrust and yaw are on the right stick and the pitch and roll are on the left stick. i do wish thrust was on the stick as well, but to limit the agility of a craft is to want to play a side scroller. i fly collective pitch walkera heli and would not want my heli to only fly like a brick up down left right i 3d, this guy does not want to learn. i would like more agility, a cockpit radar warning for incoming swarms, longer ranges for turrets assault ds tend to almost slam into ground range is so short.
The reason why I did not suggested full rc controls is simple: MOVE compatibility. In DUST every class is and should be compatible to MOVE. But the motion controller can only imitate on analog stick. That-¦s why I-¦d put pitch and yaw on one stick. If you put thrust on the right stick you would have to control the speed with the motion controller. Since pitch and movement are separated now you can also point down without moving forward or lift up without braking which is useful in fast flights if you want to lift up. Now if you are in full flight and pitch up the game turns the engines backwards and you get slower. Here you just pitch up.
CCP Blam! wrote:I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping.
I think I can help you with this a bit. One advantage of my control scheme is that you can hover around just with the left stick and L1/L2 very easy. Thus you need the right stick only if you want to fly fast because you often need to pitch. The right stick could be used then in two different modes that can be switched by pressing X. The default mode would be the flight mode where right up/down controls the pitch and right left/right yaw. The turret of an Assault Dropship is fixed to the center in this mode. The second mode would be a combat mode. Here it would depend on the ship type what is controlled by the right stick. In an Assault dropship it controls the pitch and yaw of the turret. When the turret reaches the border of its field of view the ship should yaw as long that the turret is in the center again. In a normal Dropship you can just look around. In a Logi or later Bomber Dropship the combat cam should be the ground cam.
Maybe you should also add some kind of fixed thrust. This means that you just regulate the thrust to your desired level and it stays at this level until you change it again. The current level could be shown in a small bar on the HUD.
I hope this stopped certain guys from whining and helps you, Blam! |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. DRaven DeMort wrote: I fly rc aswell but i fly jp style so my thrust and yaw are on the right stick and the pitch and roll are on the left stick. i do wish thrust was on the stick as well, but to limit the agility of a craft is to want to play a side scroller. i fly collective pitch walkera heli and would not want my heli to only fly like a brick up down left right i 3d, this guy does not want to learn. i would like more agility, a cockpit radar warning for incoming swarms, longer ranges for turrets assault ds tend to almost slam into ground range is so short.
The reason why I did not suggested full rc controls is simple: MOVE compatibility. In DUST every class is and should be compatible to MOVE. But the motion controller can only imitate on analog stick. That-¦s why I-¦d put pitch and yaw on one stick. If you put thrust on the right stick you would have to control the speed with the motion controller. Since pitch and movement are separated now you can also point down without moving forward or lift up without braking which is useful in fast flights if you want to lift up. Now if you are in full flight and pitch up the game turns the engines backwards and you get slower. Here you just pitch up. CCP Blam! wrote:I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping. I think I can help you with this a bit. One advantage of my control scheme is that you can hover around just with the left stick and L1/L2 very easy. Thus you need the right stick only if you want to fly fast because you often need to pitch. The right stick could be used then in two different modes that can be switched by pressing X. The default mode would be the flight mode where right up/down controls the pitch and right left/right yaw. The turret of an Assault Dropship is fixed to the center in this mode. The second mode would be a combat mode. Here it would depend on the ship type what is controlled by the right stick. In an Assault dropship it controls the pitch and yaw of the turret. When the turret reaches the border of its field of view the ship should yaw as long that the turret is in the center again. In a normal Dropship you can just look around. In a Logi or later Bomber Dropship the combat cam should be the ground cam. Maybe you should also add some kind of fixed thrust. This means that you just regulate the thrust to your desired level and it stays at this level until you change it again. The current level could be shown in a small bar on the HUD. I hope this stopped certain guys from whining and helps you, Blam!
DUDE are you really tiring to use the move to fly? YOU SERIOUS? I recommend you play shogun rise of the renegadeits seems like its what your looking for. You go back forth side to side. |
|
Sjach Ixven Kothar
Conspiratus Immortalis
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:This scheme doesn't seem to restore control to a gun camera. Opening up control customization is a bit of a task since we need to provide a whole new menu for this, and also implement the logic to ensure that mappings that cannot work with particular actions cannot be assigned - say for example putting infantry aiming on "X". Open customization is on the roadmap as part of a future release.
We do have plans for a full dropship HUD as well as HUD updates to all other vehicles. We also have plans to do Lock-On warning indicators, countermeasures, and lock-on for a certain subset of turrets.
have you considers using one of the unmapped buttons to enable a switching option for the camera to switch between a gun camera and flight camera controls, while while still enabling the others controls to remain the same for module activations and some maneuvering of dropship just not steering |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
329
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:Bomber variant of the dropship I find this bit confusing. Is every aircraft intended to be a dropship variant?
CCP Blam! wrote:and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. I think this would work really well as long as you allow three things
- Allow mods to be restricted to certain positions within the vehicle
- Allow restriction to squad and possibly to such things as contacts with good standing
- Allow the pilot to operate any active mod
CCP Blam! wrote: The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided
Any chance you could make this toggle-able, or implement a "snap camera to neutral position" trigger, such as on acceleration?
Either way, thanks for the feedback, Blam! |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
DRaven DeMort wrote: DUDE are you really tiring to use the move to fly? YOU SERIOUS? I recommend you play shogun rise of the renegade its seems like its what your looking for. You go back forth side to side.
Have you even tried move on dropships? It works quite good and the only thing you do with the motion controller is looking around. CCP wanted the game to be move compatible so all controls set-ups have to be move compatible. Guess why you always look around and aim with the right stick? If you have a problem with this tell what set up you want. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 13:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
SIXAXIS controlers have accelerometers built-in. Could you use them for controling pitch-yaw and roll for Aerial vehicles? Tilt down == L up Tilt up == L down Tilt left == L left Tilt right == L right As a part of new control scheme for aerials...
You have left stick suddenly available for something usefull. Aiming? Looking around?
EDIT: If you don't know what i'm talking about, play "Flower" demo (from makers of "Journey"). |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
333
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 13:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. My dad builds financial forecasting systems for billion dollar corporations for a living. What he does is really hard, and he likes it that way. That makes him valuable. He's in high demand because supply is low.
This is how I feel about dropships. If they stay how they are, people like the OP aren't going to fly them. If they were easier, you'd go into a match and see 7 dropships up in the air. Assault players are a dime a dozen, heavies are pretty easy to come by, and about half of everybody is a logi, but I'm the only assault dropship pilot for my entire alliance (my corp on its own has ~140 members). As such, when the time comes for battle, I don't have any competition. Sounds like you better HTFU or there just isn't a role for you here. Take your optional respec and go play logi like everybody else. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 14:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. My dad builds financial forecasting systems for billion dollar corporations for a living. What he does is really hard, and he likes it that way. That makes him valuable. He's in high demand because supply is low. This is how I feel about dropships. If they stay how they are, people like the OP aren't going to fly them. If they were easier, you'd go into a match and see 7 dropships up in the air. Assault players are a dime a dozen, heavies are pretty easy to come by, and about half of everybody is a logi, but I'm the only assault dropship pilot for my entire alliance (my corp on its own has ~140 members). As such, when the time comes for battle, I don't have any competition. Sounds like you better HTFU or there just isn't a role for you here. Take your optional respec and go play logi like everybody else.
Thats the worst reason I-¦ve ever heard! You want the controls like they are that you are alone and have no concurrence? If they are easier to fly more players will spec into them but there will never be more than 3-4 good pilots in a battle though. Reason 1: They are too expensive. A well fitted Dropship costs more than a well fitted tank of the same level. Reason 2: Most will just use some Militia fittings that are easy to destroy. Many will notice this and skill into AV. Reason 3: You would still need to train flying if you want to be effective.
@CCP Blam! could you say something about this? |
TheBlob95 B
GamersForChrist
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 16:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Be careful with the analogue controls, in the long term PS4 controllers will have a digital input; they're trashing the analogue because very few developers use it. TL;DR: Don't make problems for yourself you'll have to fix later :) |
Mr m4gic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 16:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
ok so i havnt read all of the posts but if u changed the controls in the dropship the camera option can be a simple click in the analog stick for camera movement release for normal control just a suggestion i hope the changes are soon i really wanna fly dropships but as u kno they are a nightmare. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
336
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 16:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mr m4gic wrote:ok so i havnt read all of the posts but if u changed the controls in the dropship the camera option can be a simple click in the analog stick for camera movement release for normal control just a suggestion i hope the changes are soon i really wanna fly dropships but as u kno they are a nightmare. Whoa buddy. I fly an assault dropship and am in constant manipulation of my camera. I'd have to constantly have the stick clicked. |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 19:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:DRaven DeMort wrote: DUDE are you really tiring to use the move to fly? YOU SERIOUS? I recommend you play shogun rise of the renegade its seems like its what your looking for. You go back forth side to side.
Have you even tried move on dropships? It works quite good and the only thing you do with the motion controller is looking around. CCP wanted the game to be move compatible so all controls set-ups have to be move compatible. Guess why you always look around and aim with the right stick? If you have a problem with this tell what set up you want.
NO! i am not into sims, I want complete control of my ship, the only way i would use the move in any flight game is if i ducted tape it to my head and have it track my head movements for aircraft in cockpit view, kinda like the IR tracker. |
|
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 19:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. My dad builds financial forecasting systems for billion dollar corporations for a living. What he does is really hard, and he likes it that way. That makes him valuable. He's in high demand because supply is low. This is how I feel about dropships. If they stay how they are, people like the OP aren't going to fly them. If they were easier, you'd go into a match and see 7 dropships up in the air. Assault players are a dime a dozen, heavies are pretty easy to come by, and about half of everybody is a logi, but I'm the only assault dropship pilot for my entire alliance (my corp on its own has ~140 members). As such, when the time comes for battle, I don't have any competition. Sounds like you better HTFU or there just isn't a role for you here. Take your optional respec and go play logi like everybody else.
Well Said!! you want to go up and fly one day let me Know it would be nice to play horse with someone who can fly. |
DRaven DeMort
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 19:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. My dad builds financial forecasting systems for billion dollar corporations for a living. What he does is really hard, and he likes it that way. That makes him valuable. He's in high demand because supply is low. This is how I feel about dropships. If they stay how they are, people like the OP aren't going to fly them. If they were easier, you'd go into a match and see 7 dropships up in the air. Assault players are a dime a dozen, heavies are pretty easy to come by, and about half of everybody is a logi, but I'm the only assault dropship pilot for my entire alliance (my corp on its own has ~140 members). As such, when the time comes for battle, I don't have any competition. Sounds like you better HTFU or there just isn't a role for you here. Take your optional respec and go play logi like everybody else. Thats the worst reason I-¦ve ever heard! You want the controls like they are that you are alone and have no concurrence? If they are easier to fly more players will spec into them but there will never be more than 3-4 good pilots in a battle though. Reason 1: They are too expensive. A well fitted Dropship costs more than a well fitted tank of the same level. Reason 2: Most will just use some Militia fittings that are easy to destroy. Many will notice this and skill into AV. Reason 3: You would still need to train flying if you want to be effective. @CCP Blam! could you say something about this?
Blam PLZ tell them TO HTFU
|
powdemonic
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup.
ive been in dust since closed beta, and honestly i dont really see a difference it's a bit more sluggish i guess but that may be g-force witch is actuelly a good thing as you dont want it to easy to fly or it will become what it was in closed beta (way overpowered) also tanks actuely are more resilient not paper though gunnlogi should have more tourqe and acceleration and speed madrugar should be slowed down a tad bit its speed is good for a super futuristic war machine though |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster.
I did read it and I believe that you need to practice more. Once you get comfortable with it, it is reasonable.
Think of it like the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop straight into one, but without understanding of how to control it, your effectiveness was sub-zero.
Keep working on it, you will get there!
ps. I like your ground cam idea. It would be neat to use that if bombs ever get added. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1461
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:Let me expand on the ground cam, and general aiming camera status.
I do in fact plan on putting in a ground camera when we are able to release our Bomber variant of the dropship, and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. There's positives and negatives for both and a bit of design logistics to take care of there.
The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). These improvements require code fixes that I am working directly with a programmer on (alas Blam! is a Game Designer ;) )
Would it be possible to autoshift the camera up when the ship is backing into an object rather than stall the camera and have the ship back into it and obscure the entire view? |
Klivve Cussler
S.e.V.e.N. Gentlemen's Agreement
136
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
I really like the control scheme of the dropships currently. It is flexible and powerful. What it is not is easy. I've been flying flight sims for years and the dropship is different than any aircraft I've ever flown, with the exception of the lunar lander.
I recommend dropping into a skirmish match and flying some slow laps around your MCC. It's pretty safe up there and it's unlikely you'll be fired on. Just go up near the end of the match and stay up there until the match ends Once you've got accelerating and turning (turning requires the balanced use of yaw, roll, pitch, and throttle. so it isn't easy), you can work on landing. Just putting the Dropship down in one piece is tricky. Putting it down where you aimed it takes practice. Again, find some place behind the redline where the ground is out of sight and practice landing. Take it slow. Practice landing for pickup and hovering for drop-off. Get an idea of when you have to start breaking to stop where you want. Again, once you've got the basics then you can try to do it faster.
You should be able to do all of that without losing a single dropship. Just take it easy and don't oversteer. The ship's maneuverable enough to do a split-s, or an immelmann turn, but nine times out of ten it will just kill you for trying.
The only thing I want changed are the side doors. Since you can bail out at any time, they're just blocking the view for my passengers. I'd rather have them locked open. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam. If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. I did read it and I believe that you need to practice more. Once you get comfortable with it, it is reasonable. Think of it like the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop straight into one, but without understanding of how to control it, your effectiveness was sub-zero. Keep working on it, you will get there! ps. I like your ground cam idea. It would be neat to use that if bombs ever get added.
Well, I am currently flying them as often as I can afford one but if you skilled directly into dropships and have no other fitting at least on advanced its hard to get the money for it. I-¦ve spend 3-4 millions solely on dropships for training. This means without good modules or turrets.
Thats why I suggested new controls: If you dont have a corp behind you cant afford even to learn flying them. |
Derrith Erador
Bloodwolves Battalion
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
i honestly have to disagree with everyone saying the controls are hard. sure, it takes some getting used to, but i've been flying since open beta, and the only thing I have a bone to pick on is that they slowed the assault dropships down recently, and nerfed their shields hardcore. but i digress from why I'm really here. my reason for showing up here is because Mr. CCP Blam! said something about dropship bombers, do continue sir. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
343
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
I guess honestly I don't care what you change about controls as long as you leave me an option to keep them like they are now. The newberries can have whatever control scheme they want, but please don't make any changes mandatory. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
343
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Well, I am currently flying them as often as I can afford one but if you skilled directly into dropships and have no other fitting at least on advanced its hard to get the money for it. I-¦ve spend 3-4 millions solely on dropships for training. This means without good modules or turrets.
Thats why I suggested new controls: If you dont have a corp behind you cant afford even to learn flying them. Cheap out on turrets and extra mods, but don't cheap out on the tank. You'll lose less dropships if you actually tank them. |
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EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Blam!, please take note that the Dropships are in desperate need of avionics equipment. We need pitch and roll indicators, altimeters, and airspeed indicators. I feel that this would greatly improve everyone's perception of handling of the craft simply by information supplied to the pilot. Currently the camera doesn't offer us enough to determine whether our dropships are straight and level, rolling, etc. because of the shape of the battlefield and complete reliance on visual estimates of distance.
Pitch and roll indicators combined with altimeters and airspeed indicators open up a world of possibilities for dropship pilots in that we can ascertain what maneuvers can be performed at X altitude with Y flight speed and at what angles (pitch/roll) are necessary to smoothly and securely complete the maneuver. It allows for much more accurate, safe landing capabilities by allowing us to understand where our inertia is currently taking us and how much we have (or have to) compensate(d) for this. It offers us the reference of knowing how fast we are moving and how much altitude we are losing/have lost to gain our speed, and how much we should yank on the throttle to restore or maintain altitude. |
Skybladev2
LUX AETERNA INT RUST415
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 05:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). I think mapping this action to L3 is quite enough. What if I campering in the sky at the top of the map? And gun suddenly starts moving...
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Sibri Vannikh
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 08:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
+1 Although the new controls are better there is still the problem with the camera and controlling the engines directly would also help a lot. |
Taurion Bruni
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
141
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bumping this thread, where are you with these updates? |
Oceltot Mortalis
Ill Omens
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 06:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bumping this thread as well. Really looking forward to the additions to aerial vehicles, whether they be variations of what we have or something completely new.
Also, to those crying about losing a few or even 10 million isk to training drop ships (because its soooo hard), go try learning to fly a battleship in Eve. The learning curve in any CCP game is huge, and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are road mapping this game for years down the road, so if it takes an entire two weeks worth of isk to figure out dropships, get over it. In the long haul, that's chump change. Keep the dropships hard to fly, it makes me feel like more of a BAMF when I land in the middle of a hot LZ to extract mercs. |
Derrith Erador
Pradox One
131
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Oceltot Mortalis wrote:Bumping this thread as well. Really looking forward to the additions to aerial vehicles, whether they be variations of what we have or something completely new.
Also, to those crying about losing a few or even 10 million isk to training drop ships (because its soooo hard), go try learning to fly a battleship in Eve. The learning curve in any CCP game is huge, and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are road mapping this game for years down the road, so if it takes an entire two weeks worth of isk to figure out dropships, get over it. In the long haul, that's chump change. Keep the dropships hard to fly, it makes me feel like more of a BAMF when I land in the middle of a hot LZ to extract mercs.
This, right here. Love dropships. |
medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
153
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
I would like more HUD displays such as: -an altitude gauge. -something that tells me how tilted the dropship is in both axis parallel and tangent to the dropship. -some indicator to inform the pilot where swarm missiles are approaching from. -speedometer. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1402
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 13:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
+1 for speedometer, altimeter, etc.
None of the previous dev comments referred to that part of the request and I don't think that dev is on the team or at least assigned to vehicles anymore. I just started into dropships and not having any indication of how my ship is moving or where it is above the ground is extremely irritating. Just simply moving a dropship is one of the most difficult things I've come across in DUST and it needs instrumentation.
Off to crash more dropships since I can't see the ground below my landing gear... |
General Erick
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
127
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 14:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping. Battlefield style controls are also fairly easy yet need to be learned. |
Spirit Charm
Bhaalgorn Industries
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 05:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
I crash alot trying to fly a drop ship. Its hard to control and at times confusing. |
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Stevez WingYip
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 06:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping.
This is an amazing post. More like this. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
379
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 07:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Stevez WingYip wrote: This is an amazing post. More like this.
Prepare for disappointment, since CCP Blam! quit. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
958
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 12:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Blam! wrote:Let me expand on the ground cam, and general aiming camera status.
I do in fact plan on putting in a ground camera when we are able to release our Bomber variant of the dropship, and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. There's positives and negatives for both and a bit of design logistics to take care of there.
The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). These improvements require code fixes that I am working directly with a programmer on (alas Blam! is a Game Designer ;) )
Blam, go look at some Warhawk dropship gameplay
The dropship controls in that game were flawless, and it solves a lot of the problems you're encountering.
To put it simply...the up and down is on R2/L2 (R1/L1 could work too), the x axis movements are on the left stick (move forward/back/left/right), and the turning/aiming is all on the right stick.
Also, instead of trying to combine the guns and movement into one, it's a toggle. You switch between transport mode and assault mode, depending on whether you want to use the turrets or move the dropship. You can still move while firing, but the dropship stabilizes itself to make it easier to fire on opponents. |
Derrith Erador
Pradox One
169
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:CCP Blam! wrote:Let me expand on the ground cam, and general aiming camera status.
I do in fact plan on putting in a ground camera when we are able to release our Bomber variant of the dropship, and we have been playing around with ideas on whether or not we allow passengers to use modules shared by a vehicle. There's positives and negatives for both and a bit of design logistics to take care of there.
The aiming camera on the dropship is also being worked on in general. I want to enable the camera to be more responsive to players' direct input while still allowing the camera to gently and seamlessly ease back to its neutral position when no input is provided (in case you were wondering, the reason for the ease is so that players don't have to fumble by manually moving it back to the neutral position). These improvements require code fixes that I am working directly with a programmer on (alas Blam! is a Game Designer ;) ) Blam, go look at some Warhawk dropship gameplay The dropship controls in that game were flawless, and it solves a lot of the problems you're encountering. To put it simply...the up and down is on R2/L2 (R1/L1 could work too), the x axis movements are on the left stick (move forward/back/left/right), and the turning/aiming is all on the right stick. Also, instead of trying to combine the guns and movement into one, it's a toggle. You switch between transport mode and assault mode, depending on whether you want to use the turrets or move the dropship. You can still move while firing, but the dropship stabilizes itself to make it easier to fire on opponents.
never played warhawk, but that's some sexy stuff you're spewing. |
p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 05:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Love the idea of helicopter style controls! Like a lot of players I really don't like the dropship controls. There should be a "helicopter" option. If a new helicopter type vehicle were to be added (and it should use thrusters, not a rotor) there is the question of how the controls would incorporate a turret for the pilot. This is easy: they don't. The vehicle should be highly (and I mean HIGHLY) manuverable when it comes to reorienting direction. If so, the entire vehicle is "a turret" much as an infantry is "a turret". The pilot gets a "dummy" gun, only able to angle up and down in this control scheme, but the vehicle has a 2nd seat which is an actual turret. (This would be a 360 turret on the bottom? On the top makes little sense for an aerial VTOL.) If flying solo, the pilot can simply switch seats to toggle into the turret chair.
Left stick = "main rotor" tilt for forward, back, strafe, like a helicopter (or infantry). The entire vehicle leans in the direction of movement, "hyper-gyro modules" can be purchased to offset lean if desired.
L1/L2 = increase/decrease "main rotor" speed. This is to gain or lose altitude ("up and down")
Right stick = "tail rotor" blade angle, to rotate the craft left and right. Up and down aim the "dummy" gun up and down. (Again, this is very similar to infantry controls.)
R1 = trigger. I recommend a missile launcher for the pilot's "dummy" gun since he has no scope/zoom/look down sights.
R2 = module switch
With this control scheme the pilot need never to take his right thumb off of the right stick, but here's also where I get creative and the pilot can show off. Ahem.
In the controls menu, the player can toggle "hover mode" on or off. He can also toggle this during play using the "bay doors" OR R3 button. Hover mode resets all "rotor" tilt, speed, and blade angle to neutral when the pilot let's go of the corresponding control. Essentially, the craft stops moving, rotating, and maintains altitude, like an infantry. When toggled off, the slick pilot can essentially "program" his craft to fly in a pattern as he switches into the turret. A skilled pilot could set his craft to circle a position, jump in the bottom blaster turret, and lay waste until he has to run for his life and recharge shields.
Well, there you go, an Eve/Dust "Thrusticopter" all laid out for your approval or hatred ha ha |
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