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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
6
   |
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam.
If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 04:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam.
If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you.
Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc.
Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 04:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:I was thinking the other day why helicopters in BF3 feel so much better to fly than dropships in Dust and I must say that the key thing is a fixed camera. This gives you a much better sense of control. It doesn't dumb it down, it just makes it better. At least let us fix the camera as an option. And in BF3 if you wanted to look around you simply hold Down on the d-pad and instead of turning your vehicle you turn your head, works well.
Since the D-Pad is used in DUST this could be done with R3.
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Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 11:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE
This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing.
If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice.
DRaven DeMort wrote:
I fly rc aswell but i fly jp style so my thrust and yaw are on the right stick and the pitch and roll are on the left stick. i do wish thrust was on the stick as well, but to limit the agility of a craft is to want to play a side scroller. i fly collective pitch walkera heli and would not want my heli to only fly like a brick up down left right i 3d, this guy does not want to learn. i would like more agility, a cockpit radar warning for incoming swarms, longer ranges for turrets assault ds tend to almost slam into ground range is so short.
The reason why I did not suggested full rc controls is simple: MOVE compatibility. In DUST every class is and should be compatible to MOVE. But the motion controller can only imitate on analog stick. That-¦s why I-¦d put pitch and yaw on one stick. If you put thrust on the right stick you would have to control the speed with the motion controller.
Since pitch and movement are separated now you can also point down without moving forward or lift up without braking which is useful in fast flights if you want to lift up. Now if you are in full flight and pitch up the game turns the engines backwards and you get slower. Here you just pitch up.
CCP Blam! wrote:I'm digging the feedback here guys.
I do actually want to put in the option for RC helicopter style flight controls. There are some challenges for this though. First off, we would need to figure out how to control the gun or the look-around camera when throttle and yaw are on one stick, and roll and pitch are on another. The current idea I have is to use the old thrust up and thrust down buttons (L1 and L2) as gun/look-around camera pitch up and pitch down. This may work because the camera on its own will gradually drift back to its neutral position when no input is provided. L2 and R2 is also possible for this, but I don't find that ideal because you are mapping an up/down movement to left/right sides of a controller, and I would also have to divorce the module switch modal from its standard R2 position. So assuming we do go the L1 + L2 route, we are still faced with the next challenge.
The next challenge is that all of our control mapping settings on the development side are based on a foundational set of "commands". For example:
StickAxes rightStickUpDown AxisPower=1 Speedx=1.0 Speedy=1.0 DeadZone=0.2
rightStickUpDown allows me to provide input to pitch up and down on the right analogue stick, using the ranges -1 to +1. This then gets routed through the gun/look-around camera. This sort of command relays values as if it were taken through an analogue device, so we get values like 0, 0, 0, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, and so on when you move the analogue upwards - keep in mind the first values are zero because we've set the DeadZone to cover a margin of 0.2 degrees of control input.
The good news is that all buttons on a PS3 controller can be set to accept analogue style input, so if it it's set up, if you press a button softly, you get a smaller value than if you press it very hard. The bad news however, is that at the moment we don't have analogue input style commands that can relay information to the gun/look-around camera as only up or only down. That means I wouldn't be able to set L1 to pitch camera up, and L2 to pitch camera down. This is something I have put on the backlog and should have in place for a future deployment at which point I'll include an RC helicopter style flight control mapping.
I think I can help you with this a bit.
One advantage of my control scheme is that you can hover around just with the left stick and L1/L2 very easy. Thus you need the right stick only if you want to fly fast because you often need to pitch.
The right stick could be used then in two different modes that can be switched by pressing X. The default mode would be the flight mode where right up/down controls the pitch and right left/right yaw. The turret of an Assault Dropship is fixed to the center in this mode.
The second mode would be a combat mode. Here it would depend on the ship type what is controlled by the right stick.
In an Assault dropship it controls the pitch and yaw of the turret. When the turret reaches the border of its field of view the ship should yaw as long that the turret is in the center again.
In a normal Dropship you can just look around.
In a Logi or later Bomber Dropship the combat cam should be the ground cam.
Maybe you should also add some kind of fixed thrust. This means that you just regulate the thrust to your desired level and it stays at this level until you change it again. The current level could be shown in a small bar on the HUD.
I hope this stopped certain guys from whining and helps you, Blam! |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
DRaven DeMort wrote:
DUDE are you really tiring to use the move to fly? YOU SERIOUS? I recommend you play shogun rise of the renegade its seems like its what your looking for. You go back forth side to side.
Have you even tried move on dropships? It works quite good and the only thing you do with the motion controller is looking around. CCP wanted the game to be move compatible so all controls set-ups have to be move compatible. Guess why you always look around and aim with the right stick?
If you have a problem with this tell what set up you want. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 14:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Hellsatano wrote:bla bla bla la la la. Quote:MOMMY ITS VERY HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME SAY THEM SHOY SHOULD DO SOFCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn to play, man. your words like "9 level on tetris is very hard. it should be nerfed" only one thing you said right- camera of dropship R3 button is a front camera, but in assault dropship i NEED camera from turret and it MUST BE THERE This has nothing to do with me! It must not be that you need millions of ISK just to learn how to fly basically. In every vehicle except Dropships here you can just hop in and with little to no training you can do almost everything. You should be able to do the basic after your first few flights. These include flying at an moderate speed and landing. If you want to dodge swarms, hover a few meters over the ground or chase others at top speed you should need practice. My dad builds financial forecasting systems for billion dollar corporations for a living. What he does is really hard, and he likes it that way. That makes him valuable. He's in high demand because supply is low. This is how I feel about dropships. If they stay how they are, people like the OP aren't going to fly them. If they were easier, you'd go into a match and see 7 dropships up in the air. Assault players are a dime a dozen, heavies are pretty easy to come by, and about half of everybody is a logi, but I'm the only assault dropship pilot for my entire alliance (my corp on its own has ~140 members). As such, when the time comes for battle, I don't have any competition. Sounds like you better HTFU or there just isn't a role for you here. Take your optional respec and go play logi like everybody else.
Thats the worst reason I-¦ve ever heard! You want the controls like they are that you are alone and have no concurrence?
If they are easier to fly more players will spec into them but there will never be more than 3-4 good pilots in a battle though. Reason 1: They are too expensive. A well fitted Dropship costs more than a well fitted tank of the same level.
Reason 2: Most will just use some Militia fittings that are easy to destroy. Many will notice this and skill into AV.
Reason 3: You would still need to train flying if you want to be effective.
@CCP Blam! could you say something about this? |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Sebrone Jamleux wrote:I decided to try out the dropships this build since I-¦ve heard a lot of bad feedback. Well, I wasn-¦t very good in other builds too but I could at least fly then without crashing. Now I destroyed 7 of 10 dropships myself.
It-¦s very hard to keep control over the dropship if you want to fly a bit faster to avoid swarms and if you fly lower you will likely do a barrel roll and crush since it reacts too strong even with min sensitivity. You also don-¦t have much control over the engines.
You should directly control the engines in the four directions with the left stick. Thus there are maneuvers like flying diagonal possible. The engines should be turn-able up to 60-¦ to the sides and up to 40-¦ without rolling. The max angle you can roll should be about 60-¦. To the front and back they should be turn-able full 90-¦ but if turned over 45-¦ the ship should loose height. The right stick should be used to yaw and change the pitch of the nose. The camera should always point at what the nose points at so you have a better feeling what the ship does.
With this controls and physics you should be able fly faster and control the ship better then without losing too much of speed, slow movement near the ground is easier and you can fly better while selecting a module. The only downside is that you cannot move the camera alone anymore which isn-¦t such a problem as you are able to turn the ship in any direction necessary for targeting without even moving.
I also had an idea for a new feature: the ground cam.
If you are directly above the target it could be hard to select it for the repairer etc. The ground cam is a camera on the bottom of the ship that can be accessed by pressing X. Then you switch screens and the normal field of view is in a small window. In the ground cam screen you move a cross hair with the right stick to look around and select target but thus you cannot fly as well. The area directly under you should be highlighted so you can see where your passengers drop and if bombs are added where the hit. This makes you more precise for transports and bombings. Passengers should also be able to access it.
That are more newbie-friendly controls and physics but there should be the old standard controls and physics as an option too as I think some more advanced pilots wont like this setup. Set your sensitivity down. Consider what modules you have equipped. KNOW that the Militia Dropships control like flying bricks compared to the Assault and higher classes of Dropship. It takes time and effort to fly them well. Think of the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop in one, but unless they put serious time into it, they would just be playing a crazy game of aerial ballet where everything is shooting at you. Did you even read it? Even with min sensitivity it-¦s impossible to fly as a beginner. I don-¦t want that they hop in their first time and fly like a pro but they should at least be able to keep the ship in air stable. If you train this controls allow you more complex actions near the ground etc. Also dropship pilots will see the advantage of this controls and physics if CCP adds them because you can fly more percise like a helicopter but also faster. I did read it and I believe that you need to practice more. Once you get comfortable with it, it is reasonable. Think of it like the Jets in Battlefield 3. Sure, a new player could hop straight into one, but without understanding of how to control it, your effectiveness was sub-zero. Keep working on it, you will get there! ps. I like your ground cam idea. It would be neat to use that if bombs ever get added.
Well, I am currently flying them as often as I can afford one but if you skilled directly into dropships and have no other fitting at least on advanced its hard to get the money for it. I-¦ve spend 3-4 millions solely on dropships for training. This means without good modules or turrets.
Thats why I suggested new controls: If you dont have a corp behind you cant afford even to learn flying them. |
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