The sooner CCP realizes this, is the sooner DUST can become a far better game. Trying to please people that click on boxes, and look at spreadsheets while preaching "HTFU" and chanting "Welcome to New Eden" will be the downfall of this game.

Looking at only data while ignoring feedback, is a guaranteed way of unbalancing the game. Duvolle Tact. is fine btw

What are asking for here exactly? It sounds like you want a CoD/BF clone with a placebo spread sheet. Can I get some details on what you want?

Is that the only thing, you guys can say to prove you point ?; "It sounds like you want a CoD/BF clone"

That is getting old now... try something new.

One could argue that the sooner you realize that CCP as a development studio has a unique way of doing things that you need to come to terms with....the better.

Furthermore, having knee-jerk emotional reactions to gaming balance without looking at data is a quicker route to failure than making informed, educated decisions.

Is that the only thing, you guys can say to prove you point ?; "It sounds like you want a CoD/BF clone"

That is getting old now... try something new.

Is that the only thing, you guys can say to prove you point ?; "It sounds like you want a CoD/BF clone"

That is getting old now... try something new.

Just to make you rage a little. It is not eve it is New Eden and some things should carry over. Eve is in the name and what not. Chill out dude, all these problems will work out over time. We are here for the long run and we want a robust, deep and hardcore shooter. Sit back, collect tears and enjoy the game as it is and what it will be.

CCP development style suits PC gamers.

Pretty sure I said looking @ data while ignoring feedback...

so yeah, just looking at data for a FPS has not been working out well has it?

What are asking for here exactly? It sounds like you want a CoD/BF clone with a placebo spread sheet. Can I get some details on what you want?

I am curious to what they want. The devs listen and then implement fixes and I am very confused what he wants the game to be like because I thought DUST is what it is and not something game. We are different than eve in lots of different ways, I just don't get it I guess.

It's working fine. Your timelines for perfection is unrealistic.

CCP's development style suits gamers that want something more than just the run of the mill clones in their genre.

They revolutionized the space sim game and have laid the groundwork to do something great in the fps space. There is no doubt it will take time.

who said anything about CoD or BF?

I said DUST isn't EVE and you bring up these games?

I'm lost...

Simple really... is only one "recipe" you can follow to make a FPS... the fact that everyone follows the same recipe, doesn't means that you "Copying" other people... You just using the working "Formula", that has been effective for DECADES of gaming.

One could argue that the sooner you realize that CCP as a development studio has a unique way of doing things that you need to come to terms with....the better.

Furthermore, having knee-jerk emotional reactions to gaming balance without looking at data is a quicker route to failure than making informed, educated decisions.

You wonder why people tell you to 'go play cod' when you're advocating that games have to follow the 'cod' formula to be a 'working formula'

If you want cod, go play cod, i saw an advertisement for a new one. Meanwhile, I'll be here hoping for a revolutionary gaming experience that redefines the formula. *fingers crossed*

right... so taking them months to fix aiming falls perfectly into their timing I guess.

Also gun balancing issues...nah, CCP has their data for that...which btw, they've messed up a couple times while applying numbers.

I've always been cynical about how CCP handles their game for the console crowd. So you can be as optimistic as you want, while I stay as cynical as I want.

I'll give them props, but I'll point out flaws. Some people just all out CCP fanboys... *cough*eveplayers*cough* which is doing nothing to help DUST.

CCP development style suits PC gamers.

Pretty sure I said looking @ data while ignoring feedback...

so yeah, just looking at data for a FPS has not been working out well has it?

Did i say CoD ?... i talking about DECADES ago ... when the 1st FPS game where made, every one still uses that formula...

All FPS games have similarities with each other... do you ever wonder why ?

Did i say CoD ?... i talking about DECADES ago ... when the 1st FPS game where made, every one still uses that formula...

All FPS games have similarities with each other... do you ever wonder why ?

Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good or correct. All other fps have the same problems but their games have a 6-8 month life span and it is not a big deal. We were in beta linger than most games live and release may not be the game we wanted but it is the game we have. Starting off a new thread calling eve players stupid isn't the best way to make friends or engage in conversations that are supposed to be constructive.

You asking CCP to do the impossible .... and you don't want to be call stupid ?

Started writing a post... got zoomed by 6 people

It's working fine. Your timelines for perfection is unrealistic.

CCP's development style suits gamers that want something more than just the run of the mill clones in their genre.

They revolutionized the space sim game and have laid the groundwork to do something great in the fps space. There is no doubt it will take time.

Just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good or correct. All other fps have the same problems but their games have a 6-8 month life span and it is not a big deal. We were in beta linger than most games live and release may not be the game we wanted but it is the game we have. Starting off a new thread calling eve players stupid isn't the best way to make friends or engage in conversations that are supposed to be constructive.

looks at current tank/ dropship / gun balance issues...

nah they listen

Don't think you know how many threads were made about tanks during chromosome...NONE were taken into consideration.

Heavy + HMG? lol... that showed me CCP's data is based on pubstomping noobs. They listen yes... and no

You asking CCP to do the impossible .... and you don't want to be call stupid ?

looks at current tank/ dropship / gun balance issues...

nah they listen

Don't think you know how many threads were made about tanks during chromosome...NONE were taken into consideration.

Heavy + HMG? lol... that showed me CCP's data is based on pubstomping noobs. They listen yes... and no

Judging from your likes, you have either just joined this game or dont post on the forums like myself. Lance and I have been playing Dust since the very first closed beta build, so we know how CCP develops their game over time, however as he said it is suited for PC gamers. I was optimistic once, like yourself, all the promises of a deeper FPS, all the stories and awesome mind boggling devblogs. But over time, I realised these weren't coming any time soon, its just how CCP develops their game, you know. I've been waiting for this game to become something else, but at this pace, it really won't any time soon, more like soonTM soon. Groundwork is all they have, it isn't an MMO at its core, it is an FPS, so something needs to change. They no longer have the closed beta shield to hide behind, patches to problems like aiming and Tac AR damage need to be dished out faster than they currently are.

In what way? What if Steve Jobs had been told that cell phones could only make calls and he should only make phones like they were. With out innovation and experimentation we would have the same old game over and over. I am asking for CCP to bring their vision to the table and stick to their guns. That is all I am asking.

how is creating another corp a "tool"? lol

+1 for stupidity. GG

I'm out

calling EVE players stupid? loooool

where did i say this?

Here?

your stupidy =/= EVE players... just yours

It's working fine. Your timelines for perfection is unrealistic.

CCP's development style suits gamers that want something more than just the run of the mill clones in their genre.

They revolutionized the space sim game and have laid the groundwork to do something great in the fps space. There is no doubt it will take time.

You called pilots eve elitist and I inferred that that to be derogatory, I did not mean to put words in your mouth. Sorry. Please let me try to correct myself, calling pilots elitist does not help us make friends or have constructive conversations. I am not being an ass, you didn't say that and I take it back.

This game has been in dev since 2010. It's now 2013 the release version of the game which is one year late runs like a beta. How much longer do they need to fix frame rate issues, FPS gameplay mechanics? The FPS side of Dust should've been done first then the rpg elements could have been built around it. Dust is looking like a nice house built on a **** poor foundation.

You wonder why people tell you to 'go play cod' when you're advocating that games have to follow the 'cod' formula to be a 'working formula'

If you want cod, go play cod, i saw an advertisement for a new one. Meanwhile, I'll be here hoping for a revolutionary gaming experience that redefines the formula. *fingers crossed*

You must be an only child?

I suspect that because you immediately view others as stupid when they don't agree with your opinion.

Good news! It's not your fault... it's how you were raised.

You must be an only child?

I suspect that because you immediately view others as stupid when they don't agree with your opinion.

Good news! It's not your fault... it's how you were raised.

hope can only get you so far...

Huh!? Did you recently hear this on a lifetime movie and think it would be an appropriate reply?

nope, i love hearing people's opinions, and i don't call people stupid for disagreeing with me...that's reserved for special occasions

Actually no. It's a fact hope will only get you so far. I had hope 3 years ago that Dust would be a good game but it was screwed when this is what we got. A worse slower version version of Section 8...

...like...when you're losing an argument?!

I mean... We can look at the context and to most informed in the matter....you come off as ignorant....

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80076&find=unread

that thread brings me right back to this thread...EVE players wanting DUST to be like EVE...

Ignorant? No. Trolly? sometimes. Losing an argument based on opinions? lol...

Is not like CCP doesn't know the "Formula" ;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw0gOjOWDuI&feature=player_embedded



What the hell happen CCP ? why can't we have that ^ game ?

that thread brings me right back to this thread...EVE players wanting DUST to be like EVE...

Ignorant? No. Trolly? sometimes. Losing an argument based on opinions? lol...

That looks much better than what we have.

Ahh, well, in that case... Your troll skills need work, as does your aptitude in debating.

My troll skills are fine, since I left you guys there still replying even though i said I was out

Fact's can be proven. Can you prove 'hope can only get you so far'?

There is no such thing as an FPS formula. There is also no such thing as revolutionary gameplay or redefining the FPS genre. There are only successful games and unsuccessful games. Looking at DUST right now it's pretty obvious where it's going to stand on that spectrum in the next couple of months. And for a game with the mechanics such as DUST, if it doesn't take off after the first ~3 months it never will.

i like your backtracking... now it's "debating" and not an "argument"...which is it then? Two very different things depending on context at the time of usage.

Now don't go and GOOGLE the difference. You seem like a smart fellow...using an alt and all

My troll skills are fine, since I left you guys there still replying even though i said I was out

oh look, another alt

oh look, another alt

He shoots... he misses.... awwwwww

I was under the impression that that vid wasn't 'live' gameplay.

Hope isn't going to put money in my pocket so I can feed my family. Fact

Hope isn't going to keep my mother from dying. Fact

Hope isn't going to make CCP make a good game. Fact

Hope didn't help those victims ravaged by a 2 mile wide hurricane. Fact

Hope didn't help the children at Sandy hook. Fact

Hoping something good will come of Dust lackadaisical development wont get you anywhere especially if it's already had 3 years on the table. CCP needs to get up and fix it.

Hope didn't make CCP fix the frame rate issues in this game. Fact

Hope didn't get CCP to fix the vehicle imbalance. Fact

Hope didn't get CCP to actually listen to us. Fact

But if you some how have magic hope and can do these things then hope away...

You'll need to define your definition of 'successful'.

The game can grow to 60k concurrent players with a million users and have a 10% p2p rate of 10/month or more and you've got a decent revenue stream.

The f2p model thrives on getting people to stick with their game. Having a passive progression mechanic is enticing to lots of former players to check back in.

Dust may never be as successful as the new cod game that comes out every 6 months in terms of box sales, or have as many concurrent players for those 6 months. But if done correctly and prudently it can still be a very lucrative and 'successful' title for CCP.

*facepalm*

After just insulting my troll skilz...

It wasn't but it certainly looks better than what we currently have. TBH there is no reason that the game shouldn't play that way now though.

CCP has always falsely advertised Dust. They've been quoted saying combat in Dust is fast and frantic but when you play you move like molasses. Everything about Dust is slow and boring.

While I'm not sure what the first portion of your post has to do with the subject at hand, I'll dismiss this and read into your post.

I agree, the game will take time, I can see how you would grow impatient. Nothing wrong with that. If it's going to take too long for you, that's fine....understandable even. Some here have more patience, and a realization of the timeline it took for CCP's other games to come to maturity. Dust is light years ahead of EVE with relation to the time it's been in the market. I'm ok playing while I enjoy it and checking back in if i get burnt out.

EVE and Dust have a feature that create the 'want' to come back for most gamers. The passive SP is the hook. It will keep the games population growing even as people leave, they'll return for something new down the road and they may stay or not. All it takes is CCP to release something new down the road and the cycle starts again.

I am fine with your opinions on timing, I may be a more patient gamer with a more optimistic view...you may not.. Nothing wrong with this, however, as is customary in these types of impasses....can i has your stuffs?

Look at the average shelf life of a CoD game, DLC included. Now multiply that times 10, and that's the projected success we should be seeing from dust. Plus you won't have to spend a dime on new content.

First bit means while you may have played EVE online and know how they developed there, you probably haven't played dust since the first closed beta build, and won't know exactly how CCP develop this game. I can pretty much predict from the patch notes if a nerf will be too much without stats, because its CCP and I have grown to know the,. I haven't grown impatient, just tired. CCP promised a lot in the year of 2013, but I know most of it won't come. If you have been playing the beta, you will know that CCP likes to take their time on gamebreaking problems, overnerfing them while at the same time completely breaking something at the same time I don't know how long you have played the closed/open beta for, but if you have played as long as I have, you know not to expect too much. I haven't grown impatient, I just laugh at how optimistic people are sometimes.

Trailer... super developer computer with all the settings WAY up. Unimplemented tests and the like...

Trailer... super developer computer with all the settings WAY up. Unimplemented tests and the like...

Cod only last a year because Treyarch wants money. So people are now conditioned to buy a COD every year. If you knew people would keep buying the same product year after year wouldn't you do the same?

BF titles usually last for 2 years because that's simply how DICE does it. It's about making money.

And believe it or not I believe Dust is a cash grab anyway for EVE. Notice how once Dust went into beta EVE went over 500,000 subs. There are people I know playing EVE that would've never batted an eye at it until Dust.

Cod only last a year because Treyarch wants money. So people are now conditioned to buy a COD every year. If you knew people would keep buying the same product year after year wouldn't you do the same?

BF titles usually last for 2 years because that's simply how DICE does it. It's about making money.

And believe it or not I believe Dust is a cash grab anyway for EVE. Notice how once Dust went into beta EVE went over 500,000 subs. There are people I know playing EVE that would've never batted an eye at it until Dust.

They're creating synergistic titles to increase cross game interest, sales, and growth. This is good for their business.

I think you're coming around but you haven't realized it yet.

Yeah well don't expect to much cross game interest if Dust doesn't take off...

That's good marketing on CCPs side. Why shell out $60 for a AAA floozie and another $10-30 later to invite her sister DLC when you get Dust 514 for free, never have to pay for new content, dedicated servers, and another game to consider since its in the same universe?

I talking about the game-play .... isn't that obvious ? I know the graphics are always up in Demo videos....

Never said it was a bad marketing ploy. But I believe that they don't really care about Dust and are only trying to use it to up EVE subscriptions.

Even though this game has dedicated servers it runs like a game that is peer to peer.

It's quite the opposite. At fanfest there was barely any new content in EVE Online, most of the work is going into Dust.

Gah, okay, addressing the subject of this thread.

Yes, DUST is not, strictly speaking, EVE Online. However, they are in the same universe, and they are liked, as games. The general theory behind the two games are similar (do what you want, even scam, without any official punishment), and the general structure of the equipment is similar.

This suggests that any mechanics should be similar (not the same), such as damage modifiers, spying mechanics, PC, etc. Now, this isn't to say that the game is perfect at its current stage, but EVE players do know more in-depth of how these things work in Eve online, and therefore in New Eden, and therefore how they should work in DUST 514. Not all of us EVE players abhor FPS's, and have actually played a few in the past.

We can all agree that the controls and some mechanics leave something to be desired, as well as some weapons balance. However, with regards to other in-game mechanics, such as vehicle balance or shield/armor, EVE players have more of a say than CoD or BF users. simply because they have more experience dealing with customising and optimising it.

I am sure no eve players play fps or understand mechanics. That has to be a fact

ROFL.....EVE online gamers have NOT idea of how things work in a FPS game... the balance problems we have right now, are DIRECTLY connected, with trying to make Dust 514 "Feel" like EvE online...

You won't have a "Painter", trying to compose a beautiful, musical masterpiece ? right ?

ROFL.....EVE online gamers have NOT idea of how things work in a FPS game... the balance problems we have right now, are DIRECTLY connected, with trying to make Dust 514 "Feel" like EvE online...

You won't have a "Painter", trying to compose a beautiful, musical masterpiece ? right ?

If you say you want a working, balanced FPS you're tagged a CoD fanboy.
Not so much.
I wish this game functioned as well as Wulfenstein did 20+ years ago.
Halo(1) was legit enough.
FFS, UT99 was miles ahead of Dust.

It's 2013 and this POS shooter gets stuck on F'ing terrain. Are you serious? What good is weapons diversity if half are rendered useless every other build release?

CoD and BF might suck, but they got the most important thing right and haven't bent over backwards to ruin it - Game Mechanics.

Keep your childish lore. I want a functioning game to spend my money on. Not a bunch of Mother Goose stories and nerfherder wannabes affecting how I simulate shooting.

Keep your childish lore. I want a functioning game to spend my money on. Not a bunch of Mother Goose stories and nerfherder wannabes affecting how I simulate shooting.

No, but you do have policemen writing books. And chefs. And sportsmen. I don't see your point.

Frankly, FPS players have no idea of how to make DUST 514 work. Yes, it may be an FPS, but it departs from most FPS's everytime you're not in a match. Which other FPS allows you to walk around a merc quarter when you're not playing a match? Which other FPS allows you to customise your character to the point where you can determine how much tank you have, and what roles you play? Which other FPS allows you to play a fully persistent game? Which other FPS purposefully allows you to attack who you want?

That's only the features we currently have.

In time, when other features come in, which other FPS will allow you to sell and buy gear? Which other FPS will allow you to determine exactly how many resources you bring to the battlefield? Which other FPS will allow you to fully customise your own weapons and armor, including paint jobs?

So... If you just want to shoot people in the face, and ignore the story behind the game, you're not childish? Great logic right there.

While I agree with you, that the controls and gameplay are the most important aspects of any shooter, your attitude leaves something to be desired. The whole selling point of this game is not that it's different from CoD or BF, it's that it's set in a universe already rich with lore, and already has a dedicated fanbase. It's because we can take those planets in said universe for ourselves, to claim. Not because it's "BF in space".

To be honest, if you couldn't care less about the lore, this game probably isn't for you.