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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
94
   |
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
AV nades are the most OP weapon in the game, replacing them with sticky C4 will bring in the game some skilled tactics.
Also, C4 would be useful for the demolition of installations. |
hydraSlav's
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:AV nades are the most OP weapon in the game, replacing them with sticky C4 will bring in the game some skilled tactics.
Also, C4 would be useful for the demolition of installations.
Jihad jeeps 4TW! |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network
Orion Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
hydraSlav's wrote:shaman oga wrote:AV nades are the most OP weapon in the game, replacing them with sticky C4 will bring in the game some skilled tactics.
Also, C4 would be useful for the demolition of installations. Jihad jeeps 4TW!
That was my favorite thing to do in Far Cry 3
|
Rachoi
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
52
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
sorry, no, AV grenades are NOT in any way OP, they are something called a purpose built tool.
y'see, AV grenades are only good against VEHICLES, and can only substantialy hurt said things, and do not do anything anywhere else, they dont hurt installations, they cant blow up at infantry's feet, they are built as designed.
if you really think we should be limited to jsut Locus grenades, you're an idiot |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
333
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I believe people have been requesting "sticky" variants to the remote explosives for quite awhile now. And I agree, they should be there. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rachoi wrote:sorry, no, AV grenades are NOT in any way OP, they are something called a purpose built tool.
y'see, AV grenades are only good against VEHICLES, and can only substantialy hurt said things, and do not do anything anywhere else, they dont hurt installations, they cant blow up at infantry's feet, they are built as designed.
if you really think we should be limited to jsut Locus grenades, you're an idiot
You will have locus, flux and C4, if you really think it will limit you, you're an idiot |
Spy Mouse
Tech Guard
General Tso's Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:AV nades are the most OP weapon in the game, replacing them with sticky C4 will bring in the game some skilled tactics.
Also, C4 would be useful for the demolition of installations.
3 remote explosives can take out a turret installation. |
Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why do you think AV nades are OP? Because they kill your Starter LAV in one hit? |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:Why do you think AV nades are OP? Because they kill your Starter LAV in one hit?
They require no skill, you just throw and forget, and they do an extraordinary amount of damage for a grenade.
Why a grenade as big as locus should do a ridiculous amount of damage? |
usrevenge2
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
c4 is a terrible idea in pretty much every game it's been implemented in ever. it's either dead useless or brokenly over powered.
also they have/had detonator packs already. |
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BOZ MR
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
148
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rachoi wrote:sorry, no, AV grenades are NOT in any way OP, they are something called a purpose built tool.
y'see, AV grenades are only good against VEHICLES, and can only substantialy hurt said things, and do not do anything anywhere else, they dont hurt installations, they cant blow up at infantry's feet, they are built as designed.
if you really think we should be limited to jsut Locus grenades, you're an idiot
This is a person of ignorance specifically designed to be an 1d10t.
Two swarm volleys can deal 10,000 (10K for all the stup7d out there) with 4 damage mods and you say AV grenade is the only thing that works?
Do us a favor, never reply to any thread again. We don't need dumb@sses in here, we have enough of them. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
rnt remote explives technically c4?
just remove the homming part of av nades and reduce the damage by half and increase swarm launcher damage to compensate for it... |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 23:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you think that an AV nade is as big as standard locus and it does all that damage, then you will ask yourself: why my locus is so under powered? then you realize that locus are not under powered, they are fine, and in a logical consequences AV are OP and they should not exist as grenade, all the AV weapons are big for a reason.
FG the biggest and heaviest, SL light but big, Plasma Cannon light but big, AV nade small and OP.
AV nades are a cheat button inserted by CCP, they shouldn't exist in a balanced game.
I'm a tanker on my alt and i'm an assault on this PG, but i will always say that AV nades are OP.
I use them because they are there, but i admit that i'm not a skilled player if a use them to kill a tank.
Forge gunner are good players, forge gun is very powerfull but it requires some skill to be used.
|
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
293
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 23:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:If you think that an AV nade is as big as standard locus and it does all that damage, then you will ask yourself: why my locus is so under powered? then you realize that locus are not under powered, they are fine, and in a logical consequences AV are OP and they should not exist as grenade, all the AV weapons are big for a reason.
FG the biggest and heaviest, SL light but big, Plasma Cannon light but big, AV nade small and OP.
AV nades are a cheat button inserted by CCP, they shouldn't exist in a balanced game.
I'm a tanker on my alt and i'm an assault on this PG, but i will always say that AV nades are OP.
I use them because they are there, but i admit that i'm not a skilled player if a use them to kill a tank.
Forge gunner are good players, forge gun is very powerfull but it requires some skill to be used.
It doesn't do much damage, the problem you're facing is spamming them with a nanohive. Also, AV grenades might make sense if they are magnetized or heat seeking with an internal gyroscope and then impact on its front while releasing a shaped charge. |
Draxus Prime
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
576
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 23:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
u stole my idea!!! look on feedback page |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 00:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
BOZ MR wrote:Rachoi wrote:sorry, no, AV grenades are NOT in any way OP, they are something called a purpose built tool.
y'see, AV grenades are only good against VEHICLES, and can only substantialy hurt said things, and do not do anything anywhere else, they dont hurt installations, they cant blow up at infantry's feet, they are built as designed.
if you really think we should be limited to jsut Locus grenades, you're an idiot This is a person of ignorance specifically designed to be an 1d10t. Two swarm volleys can deal 10,000 (10K for all the stup7d out there) with 4 damage mods and you say AV grenade is the only thing that works? Do us a favor, never reply to any thread again. We don't need dumb@sses in here, we have enough of them.
would you kindly chill the rage, please.
Swarms, and AV grenades are purpose built.... and i do know that Swarms are supposed to be better than AV-G.
also, i dont have the painful reliance on damage mods, cant stand hearing about more than two on any suit. i have spec'd into Swarms, because lord knows there are times when you NEED them.
side note...i'd rather like to give tanks a 5-10% hp boost... |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 10:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
@rachoi: don't use words like "idiot" and there will be no rage |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't whine after you call someone an idiot and they do the same, we already have remote explosives, that's why we don't need Av nades to change. |
Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
52
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well?
Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit.
Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
AV nades are mostly fine and needed especially with the new SP requirements for just basic stuff. In Chromosome it wasn't a big Problem to skill a AV Weapon as secondary but now it's just too SP expensive for most people.
Also AV nades are the only real counter to LAV running peaple over, with the new HP buff you now need more than one packed AV nade to kill even the free starter LAV thats not really OP.
But i could agree if AV nades would do slightly less Damage to tanks. |
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Don't whine after you call someone an idiot and they do the same, we already have remote explosives, that's why we don't need Av nades to change.
he has started, you should read before leave comments |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Rachoi wrote:sorry, no, AV grenades are NOT in any way OP, they are something called a purpose built tool.
y'see, AV grenades are only good against VEHICLES, and can only substantialy hurt said things, and do not do anything anywhere else, they dont hurt installations, they cant blow up at infantry's feet, they are built as designed.
if you really think we should be limited to jsut Locus grenades, you're an idiot You will have locus, flux and C4, if you really think it will limit you, you're an idiot
You're clearly the idiot in this case, in multiple ways. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well?
Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit.
Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades.
I'm sorry, but is 2000 hp either only a fraction of total hp on a dropsuit or does it take seconds to regenerate? |
Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Harpyja wrote:The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well?
Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit.
Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. I'm sorry, but is 2000 hp either only a fraction of total hp on a dropsuit or does it take seconds to regenerate?
I'm sorry but explain to me the mechanical difference of a grenade dealing three time more damage, and why it can't be adapted for anti-infantry as well. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Harpyja wrote:The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well?
Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit.
Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. I'm sorry, but is 2000 hp either only a fraction of total hp on a dropsuit or does it take seconds to regenerate? I'm sorry but explain to me the mechanical difference of a grenade dealing three time more damage, and why it can't be adapted for anti-infantry as well.
One simple word, balance |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
[quote=Vermaak Doe
One simple word, balance [/quote]
You are the only one who whines, AV nades are not balanced.
You should put some arguments in your favor or remain a whiner. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
Eternal Syndicate
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:I believe people have been requesting "sticky" variants to the remote explosives for quite awhile now. And I agree, they should be there.
millenia into the future they will lose the ability to have sticky explosives. They will forget about AP mines. hell, they can travel the stars, but lost the technology to make a weapon fire more than 30 ft. |
Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:AV nades are mostly fine and needed especially with the new SP requirements for just basic stuff. In Chromosome it wasn't a big Problem to skill a AV Weapon as secondary but now it's just too SP expensive for most people.
Also AV nades are the only real counter to LAV running peaple over, with the new HP buff you now need more than one packed AV nade to kill even the free starter LAV thats not really OP.
But i could agree if AV nades would do slightly less Damage to tanks.
I would agree if CCP made LAVs more susceptible to explosive and kinetic damage, given their light frames. Then they can reduce the damage AV grenades deal without eliminating peoples' abilities to take out free death cabs. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:[quote=Vermaak Doe
One simple word, balance
You are the only one who whines, AV nades are not balanced.
You should put some arguments in your favor or remain a whiner.[/quote]
What are you, the perfect example of an idiot? You made this whine thread, you asked to change Av nades even though we already.have remote explosives yet you call me a whinner? I'm sure you're not an idiot now, you're damn near slow. |
Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
285
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
AV nades need nerfing until actual Proto tanks come out. 4k a grenade is a bit silly and totally nerfs all other AV and vehicles. But it will never be fix'd because the people CCP listen to will never bring up how OP they really are. |
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Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Harpyja wrote:The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well?
Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit.
Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. I'm sorry, but is 2000 hp either only a fraction of total hp on a dropsuit or does it take seconds to regenerate? I'm sorry but explain to me the mechanical difference of a grenade dealing three time more damage, and why it can't be adapted for anti-infantry as well.
That-¦s easy. It-¦s a shaped charge. It does not really explode but heats and throws an piece of metal. This one here is cut through and it looks pretty much the same as AV grenades. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:If you think that an AV nade is as big as standard locus and it does all that damage, then you will ask yourself: why my locus is so under powered? then you realize that locus are not under powered, they are fine, and in a logical consequences AV are OP and they should not exist as grenade, all the AV weapons are big for a reason.
FG the biggest and heaviest, SL light but big, Plasma Cannon light but big, AV nade small and OP.
AV nades are a cheat button inserted by CCP, they shouldn't exist in a balanced game.
I'm a tanker on my alt and i'm an assault on this PG, but i will always say that AV nades are OP.
I use them because they are there, but i admit that i'm not a skilled player if a use them to kill a tank.
Forge gunner are good players, forge gun is very powerfull but it requires some skill to be used.
I'm sorry if your only rational for saying that AV grenades are OP is their in game size that you need to just stop complaining. This is a game and AV grenades serve to fill a very specific niche roll. You can only use them against vehicles, and really only against ground vehicles. That is not OP that is game balancing. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
I found this (grenades), this (tanks) and this (tanks)
If the AV nades are not OP, then the tanks are UP |
Stephen Rao
Verboten XXI
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 13:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Wouldn't the Reactive Armour be simulated by hardeners (shield and armour variant depending on your tank type)? It reduces the amount of damage done, but is not a limitless resource. Also, using modern day MBT's as an example is not really useful as the game is set 20,000 years in the future. Just as tank protection advances over time, so do anti-tank weapons. Just because tanks have developed ways to lower the current AV 'nades damage, this doesn't mean they're as effective against the plasma charges of the future (as an example not an explanation).
The fact that they do more damage the Locus grenades is irrelevant. The Locus grenade is a fragmentation explosive, while the AV Grenade is solely focused on penetrating and disabling armour. While it does incredible amounts of damage, it is also incredibly short ranged. In this game of ranged engagements the Tank is king.
If you're afraid of the Grenades use scanning modules to identify infantry from much farther away than they can throw these 'nades, use squad coordination as the guy trying to spam AV nades is easy pickings for pretty much any Light Weapon, use your higher top speed to escape the would be suicide grenadiers, use your armour/shield repairers (which repair over 1000 damage), use your armour/shield hardeners (which can reduce incoming damage by over 40%) or just recall your vehicle when you see the oppositions AV potential and go kill those AV users. Wow, all these options, I thought they were OP? |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
1685
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 13:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
I have removed some trolling from this thread. |
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
730
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 14:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
Oh you let the Op call people idiots yet when I do it my post gets deleted. Typical CCP |
CharCharOdell
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
186
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
a simple nerf would do fine. no need to remove them.
-most whiny tanker in new eden |
Aeon Amadi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
1361
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1102
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Can we get a buff the proximity mines plz? Most tankers drive over them just to show me that they suck. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
58
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics.
Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. |
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tander09
RISE OF THE EMPIRE
The Superpowers
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
so either u hav duke nukem pills or you r SPY. you c4 a tank. HELL YA |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1102
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on.
AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. |
Terarrim
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
. If you keep your distance and have overwatch on your tank from infantry then AV's are not a problem its only a problem when your not watching your six or you think you can take a platton of infantry in an entrenched position. Every single tank has the ability to avoid AV grenades and thats to not engage at that distance. The only way your getting damaged is if you put your tank in danger in the first place or you haven't got overwatch and your getting flanked by a sabater.
Due to range advantage all tanks have engagment advantage if your getting hit by AV grenades then you have made a tacitcal error or your haven't taken into account enemy infantry movement. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper.
True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already.
But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it.
They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside.
Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive. |
Terarrim
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
A tank is potentialy the most lethal thing on the battelfield. In previous build one tank could tear through teams of people without any consequence. People then said well skill into AV. Now that people have skilled into AV 1.2 million for self defence to AV grens the same people want to nerf the AV grens in particular so they are ineffective again.
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1107
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 10:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Cosgar wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already. But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it. They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside. Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive.
I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility.
What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive.
AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 10:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades.
Or make locus grenades as power as AV. Man it would suck dodging those in my fatty suit. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 10:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for months is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility.
What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive.
AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.
Hm, and this would force AV nade lobbers to do some teamwork... I like it, I like it a lot. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
104
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
We have clarified the mechanics of AV, they act like a shaped charge, but in someway they have to be nerfed.
OR list
- Reduce or eliminate homing ability
- Reduce hit power
- Reduce throwing rate
- Reduce throwing distance
Sidenote: the vehicles buff have advantaged only the infantry, LAVs now are harder to kill for tanks too, CCP buff the hp of all the vehicles without any cost in SP, the previous skills that granted more HP on vehicles was converted in a 10% of resistance at both the shields and the armor, at max lvl, and it's quite useless.
And the skill that grant us more PG was converted in an useless skill, that grant us a CPU reduction on PG upgrades (at max lvl on the most expensive PG module we have a discount of 6-7 point in CPU [25 CPU--->18.75 CPU] ) |
Pro'fane
RestlessSpirits
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility.
What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive.
AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.
Except that level 1 and 2 AV grenades are useless against everything but the most basic of tanks (we're talking militia). The AV guy is not 'taking your kill' just because you spec'ed into swarms. I spec'ed into grenades specifically for AVs, but you don't see me complaining when some swarm guy off in the distance just took the last hit on a tank I spent half the game stalking, wearing down and getting killed for a few times in the process. It's two different strategies for the same result.
And I have a load-out made specifically for tanks, with sneaking being the goal. I've taken out tanks that no one else could or would, and I've also ruined my KDR for a match in the trying. Meanwhile, the swarm guys hang out in background, taking potshots while the tank rolls over everyone else.
As for AVs being versatile? I've never been killed on foot by an AV, but I have by forge gun (frequently) and swarms. AVs are only good against vehicles, they are useless from far away, and they normally only do any significant damage if you throw out a nanohive first (which then gives away your position if you've been sneaky). Meanwhile, I've been in a Gunnlogi that was taken out in one hit of a proto-swarm. But yeah, it's totally the AVs that are versatile.
But at the end of the day, you're complaining that someone on your team is trying to tank out before you can. If only I had your games, I might see AV guys as kill-thieves instead of as the desperately needed, yet rarely seen, support that I want. |
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JX1
Goonfeet
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tanks aren't unkillable gods in BF3 unless they are played by gods, something I know from experience doing just that with a good friend (both of us engineers, and cheesy bastards).
So why should tanks be unkillable gods in Dust by pouring SP and ISK into them?
I'm basing this on advanced and above tanks I've killed with less than advanced gear (and resupplying on the spot with nanohives), tankers ran by people who seemed to be playing with a Wii remote, with no sense of figuring out where I was at any one time, never redlining it to safety, never heading towards friendlies for some cover or possible repairs. There are a lot of tankers out there that would save themselves ISK by standing afk.
AV grenades are fine, the health LAVs have (especially the free BPOs) are not fine. |
Terarrim
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Cosgar wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-
Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already. But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it. They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside. Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive. I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility. What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive. AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.
I still haven't had any reply to my questions AV grens are short range the most lethal Packed are very short range. It seems to me that tankers want AV's nerfed so they can go into entrenched enemy positions without consequences. And just kill everyone!
The other thing is you cant switch to AV now due to the fact that there is only one supply depo in any one game. So basicly if AV grens get nerfed so they cant do their jobs the next thing you know tank = kill supply no one can change in comes the tank and no one can combat it. Due to tanks knowing where spawns are people spawning in in with swarms and forges dont stand much of a chance getting mowed down before charge or lock on.
AV grenades are a threat ONLY when you get in their very limited range. Tanks can give lots of essential support to infantry pushes etc. and vice versa.
In real life tanks in citys are very vunrable to infantry and in exactly the same way the infantry have tools to even the playing field when tanks get in to close without support.
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Sebrone Jamleux
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:We have clarified the mechanics of AV, they act like a shaped charge, but in someway they have to be nerfed. OR list
- Reduce or eliminate homing ability
- Reduce hit power
- Reduce throwing rate
- Reduce throwing distance
Sidenote: the vehicles buff have advantaged only the infantry, LAVs now are harder to kill for tanks too, CCP buff the hp of all the vehicles without any cost in SP, the previous skills that granted more HP on vehicles was converted in a 10% of resistance at both the shields and the armor, at max lvl, and it's quite useless. And the skill that grant us more PG was converted in an useless skill, that grant us a CPU reduction on PG upgrades (at max lvl on the most expensive PG module we have a discount of 6-7 point in CPU [25 CPU--->18.75 CPU] )
I absolutely agree maybe they should not reduce damage but the throwing rate and distance. It should also throw the turrets of their target depending of their weight that he has to re-aim. LAVs could get thrown off the course totally. |
Draco Cerberus
Purgatorium of the Damned
League of Infamy
50
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Stephen Rao wrote:Wouldn't the Reactive Armour be simulated by hardeners (shield and armour variant depending on your tank type)? It reduces the amount of damage done, but is not a limitless resource. Also, using modern day MBT's as an example is not really useful as the game is set 20,000 years in the future. Just as tank protection advances over time, so do anti-tank weapons. Just because tanks have developed ways to lower the current AV 'nades damage, this doesn't mean they're as effective against the plasma charges of the future (as an example not an explanation). The fact that they do more damage the Locus grenades is irrelevant. The Locus grenade is a fragmentation explosive, while the AV Grenade is solely focused on penetrating and disabling armour. While it does incredible amounts of damage, it is also incredibly short ranged. In this game of ranged engagements the Tank is king. If you're afraid of the Grenades use scanning modules to identify infantry from much farther away than they can throw these 'nades, use squad coordination as the guy trying to spam AV nades is easy pickings for pretty much any Light Weapon, use your higher top speed to escape the would be suicide grenadiers, use your armour/shield repairers (which repair over 1000 damage), use your armour/shield hardeners (which can reduce incoming damage by over 40%) or just recall your vehicle when you see the oppositions AV potential and go kill those AV users. Wow, all these options, I thought they were OP?
nuf said |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
I find it funny that all the people saying AV nades aren't OP ignore the fact that blasters have a pretty short optimal range. Inside that range any AV nade can hit you. |
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