DUST Search - Replace AV grenades with sticky C4

Cosgar wrote:

Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP-

Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics.

Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on.

AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper.

True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already.
But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it.
They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside.

Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive.

I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility.
What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive.
AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Sebrone Jamleux Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:36:00 - [31] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Harpyja wrote: The only thing I don't understand is how do they work mechanically different than locus grenades? Meaning, how does an AV grenade magically deal two or three time more damage than a locus grenade? Why not make locus grenades deal 2000 damage as well? Now if you think a locus grenade dealing 2000 damage is OP, then AV grenades are also OP. They require non-specialized use. An assault or logistics can carry 3 AV grenades and force a HAV to retreat and hide. I'm just saying that if you want to deal massive AV damage, you need a specialized dropsuit. Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. I'm sorry, but is 2000 hp either only a fraction of total hp on a dropsuit or does it take seconds to regenerate? I'm sorry but explain to me the mechanical difference of a grenade dealing three time more damage, and why it can't be adapted for anti-infantry as well. That-¦s easy. It-¦s a shaped charge. It does not really explode but heats and throws an piece of metal. This one here is cut through and it looks pretty much the same as AV grenades.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. League of Infamy 362	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:42:00 - [32] - Quote shaman oga wrote: If you think that an AV nade is as big as standard locus and it does all that damage, then you will ask yourself: why my locus is so under powered? then you realize that locus are not under powered, they are fine, and in a logical consequences AV are OP and they should not exist as grenade, all the AV weapons are big for a reason. FG the biggest and heaviest, SL light but big, Plasma Cannon light but big, AV nade small and OP. AV nades are a cheat button inserted by CCP, they shouldn't exist in a balanced game. I'm a tanker on my alt and i'm an assault on this PG, but i will always say that AV nades are OP. I use them because they are there, but i admit that i'm not a skilled player if a use them to kill a tank. Forge gunner are good players, forge gun is very powerfull but it requires some skill to be used. I'm sorry if your only rational for saying that AV grenades are OP is their in game size that you need to just stop complaining. This is a game and AV grenades serve to fill a very specific niche roll. You can only use them against vehicles, and really only against ground vehicles. That is not OP that is game balancing.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:56:00 - [33] - Quote I found this (grenades), this (tanks) and this (tanks) If the AV nades are not OP, then the tanks are UP
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 12	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:18:00 - [34] - Quote shaman oga wrote: I found this (grenades), this (tanks) and this (tanks) If the AV nades are not OP, then the tanks are UP Wouldn't the Reactive Armour be simulated by hardeners (shield and armour variant depending on your tank type)? It reduces the amount of damage done, but is not a limitless resource. Also, using modern day MBT's as an example is not really useful as the game is set 20,000 years in the future. Just as tank protection advances over time, so do anti-tank weapons. Just because tanks have developed ways to lower the current AV 'nades damage, this doesn't mean they're as effective against the plasma charges of the future (as an example not an explanation). The fact that they do more damage the Locus grenades is irrelevant. The Locus grenade is a fragmentation explosive, while the AV Grenade is solely focused on penetrating and disabling armour. While it does incredible amounts of damage, it is also incredibly short ranged. In this game of ranged engagements the Tank is king. If you're afraid of the Grenades use scanning modules to identify infantry from much farther away than they can throw these 'nades, use squad coordination as the guy trying to spam AV nades is easy pickings for pretty much any Light Weapon, use your higher top speed to escape the would be suicide grenadiers, use your armour/shield repairers (which repair over 1000 damage), use your armour/shield hardeners (which can reduce incoming damage by over 40%) or just recall your vehicle when you see the oppositions AV potential and go kill those AV users. Wow, all these options, I thought they were OP?

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 1685	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:22:00 - [35] - Quote I have removed some trolling from this thread.

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 730	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:10:00 - [36] - Quote Oh you let the Op call people idiots yet when I do it my post gets deleted. Typical CCP
CharCharOdell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 186	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:12:00 - [37] - Quote a simple nerf would do fine. no need to remove them. -most whiny tanker in new eden
Aeon Amadi Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 1361	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:21:00 - [38] - Quote Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1102	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:23:00 - [39] - Quote Can we get a buff the proximity mines plz? Most tankers drive over them just to show me that they suck.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:25:00 - [40] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on.

tander09 RISE OF THE EMPIRE The Superpowers 13	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:29:00 - [41] - Quote so either u hav duke nukem pills or you r SPY. you c4 a tank. HELL YA
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1102	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:29:00 - [42] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:36:00 - [43] - Quote . If you keep your distance and have overwatch on your tank from infantry then AV's are not a problem its only a problem when your not watching your six or you think you can take a platton of infantry in an entrenched position. Every single tank has the ability to avoid AV grenades and thats to not engage at that distance. The only way your getting damaged is if you put your tank in danger in the first place or you haven't got overwatch and your getting flanked by a sabater. Due to range advantage all tanks have engagment advantage if your getting hit by AV grenades then you have made a tacitcal error or your haven't taken into account enemy infantry movement.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:43:00 - [44] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already. But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it. They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside. Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:44:00 - [45] - Quote A tank is potentialy the most lethal thing on the battelfield. In previous build one tank could tear through teams of people without any consequence. People then said well skill into AV. Now that people have skilled into AV 1.2 million for self defence to AV grens the same people want to nerf the AV grens in particular so they are ineffective again.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1107	Posted - 2013.05.22 10:01:00 - [46] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Cosgar wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already. But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it. They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside. Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive. I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility. What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive. AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 82	Posted - 2013.05.22 10:27:00 - [47] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Make AV grenades as powerful as locus grenades. No mechanical reason why they deal up to three times more damage as locus grenades. Or make locus grenades as power as AV. Man it would suck dodging those in my fatty suit.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.05.22 10:50:00 - [48] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for months is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility. What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive. AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense. Hm, and this would force AV nade lobbers to do some teamwork... I like it, I like it a lot.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 104	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:04:00 - [49] - Quote We have clarified the mechanics of AV, they act like a shaped charge, but in someway they have to be nerfed. OR list Reduce or eliminate homing ability Reduce hit power Reduce throwing rate Reduce throwing distance Sidenote: the vehicles buff have advantaged only the infantry, LAVs now are harder to kill for tanks too, CCP buff the hp of all the vehicles without any cost in SP, the previous skills that granted more HP on vehicles was converted in a 10% of resistance at both the shields and the armor, at max lvl, and it's quite useless. And the skill that grant us more PG was converted in an useless skill, that grant us a CPU reduction on PG upgrades (at max lvl on the most expensive PG module we have a discount of 6-7 point in CPU [25 CPU--->18.75 CPU] )
Pro'fane RestlessSpirits 2	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:22:00 - [50] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility. What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive. AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense. Except that level 1 and 2 AV grenades are useless against everything but the most basic of tanks (we're talking militia). The AV guy is not 'taking your kill' just because you spec'ed into swarms. I spec'ed into grenades specifically for AVs, but you don't see me complaining when some swarm guy off in the distance just took the last hit on a tank I spent half the game stalking, wearing down and getting killed for a few times in the process. It's two different strategies for the same result. And I have a load-out made specifically for tanks, with sneaking being the goal. I've taken out tanks that no one else could or would, and I've also ruined my KDR for a match in the trying. Meanwhile, the swarm guys hang out in background, taking potshots while the tank rolls over everyone else. As for AVs being versatile? I've never been killed on foot by an AV, but I have by forge gun (frequently) and swarms. AVs are only good against vehicles, they are useless from far away, and they normally only do any significant damage if you throw out a nanohive first (which then gives away your position if you've been sneaky). Meanwhile, I've been in a Gunnlogi that was taken out in one hit of a proto-swarm. But yeah, it's totally the AVs that are versatile. But at the end of the day, you're complaining that someone on your team is trying to tank out before you can. If only I had your games, I might see AV guys as kill-thieves instead of as the desperately needed, yet rarely seen, support that I want.

JX1 Goonfeet 35	Posted - 2013.05.22 12:43:00 - [51] - Quote Tanks aren't unkillable gods in BF3 unless they are played by gods, something I know from experience doing just that with a good friend (both of us engineers, and cheesy bastards). So why should tanks be unkillable gods in Dust by pouring SP and ISK into them? I'm basing this on advanced and above tanks I've killed with less than advanced gear (and resupplying on the spot with nanohives), tankers ran by people who seemed to be playing with a Wii remote, with no sense of figuring out where I was at any one time, never redlining it to safety, never heading towards friendlies for some cover or possible repairs. There are a lot of tankers out there that would save themselves ISK by standing afk. AV grenades are fine, the health LAVs have (especially the free BPOs) are not fine.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 38	Posted - 2013.05.22 13:05:00 - [52] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Cosgar wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh my god, you got your HP buff now just -STOP- Jesus christ, the Starter LAVs are hard enough to kill let alone the nigh invulnerable Logistics. Pretty much this, if your fancy shiny HAV explodes from AV-nades, you made a mistake, accept it and move on. AV 'nades go up to prototype level, HAV are stuck with standard and a glass cannon redline sniper. True, but so does every other form of AV, this is a known issue and has been one for quite some time already. But, your HAV has no business with in a throwing distance or enemy foot mobiles, you die because of AV because you made a mistake, you have range, use it. They moved into a "city"? It's a deathtrap, stay outside. Possible solution: remove prototype AV until prototype vehicles arrive. I... actually like that solution. But, another solution I've been preaching for moths is: Make the damage a weapon does proportionate to its versatility. What this means is AV grenades are simply too versatile to be this powerful. In most cases, they eliminate any incentive to specialize in AV weaponry that require a weapon slot. In fact, they take jobs away from AV players. See a tank on a field? Merc A makes a beeline for a supply depot to change to his proto swarm launcher fitting before the tank blows it up. By the time he changes fittings and catches up with the tank, merc B is already lobbing AV grenades at it while camping a nanohive. AV grenades are dealing the damage that real AV weapons should be doing and their users don't even have to change fittings. Speccing into a real AV weapon should reward you for doing so because you have meaningful choices as an effective counter to a specific game mechanic that other players, at the cost of versatility, should only have a fraction of that effectiveness. It's common sense. I still haven't had any reply to my questions AV grens are short range the most lethal Packed are very short range. It seems to me that tankers want AV's nerfed so they can go into entrenched enemy positions without consequences. And just kill everyone! The other thing is you cant switch to AV now due to the fact that there is only one supply depo in any one game. So basicly if AV grens get nerfed so they cant do their jobs the next thing you know tank = kill supply no one can change in comes the tank and no one can combat it. Due to tanks knowing where spawns are people spawning in in with swarms and forges dont stand much of a chance getting mowed down before charge or lock on. AV grenades are a threat ONLY when you get in their very limited range. Tanks can give lots of essential support to infantry pushes etc. and vice versa. In real life tanks in citys are very vunrable to infantry and in exactly the same way the infantry have tools to even the playing field when tanks get in to close without support.
Sebrone Jamleux Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.22 16:58:00 - [53] - Quote shaman oga wrote: We have clarified the mechanics of AV, they act like a shaped charge, but in someway they have to be nerfed. OR list Reduce or eliminate homing ability Reduce hit power Reduce throwing rate Reduce throwing distance Sidenote: the vehicles buff have advantaged only the infantry, LAVs now are harder to kill for tanks too, CCP buff the hp of all the vehicles without any cost in SP, the previous skills that granted more HP on vehicles was converted in a 10% of resistance at both the shields and the armor, at max lvl, and it's quite useless. And the skill that grant us more PG was converted in an useless skill, that grant us a CPU reduction on PG upgrades (at max lvl on the most expensive PG module we have a discount of 6-7 point in CPU [25 CPU--->18.75 CPU] ) I absolutely agree maybe they should not reduce damage but the throwing rate and distance. It should also throw the turrets of their target depending of their weight that he has to re-aim. LAVs could get thrown off the course totally.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 50	Posted - 2013.05.22 17:28:00 - [54] - Quote Stephen Rao wrote: shaman oga wrote: I found this (grenades), this (tanks) and this (tanks) If the AV nades are not OP, then the tanks are UP Wouldn't the Reactive Armour be simulated by hardeners (shield and armour variant depending on your tank type)? It reduces the amount of damage done, but is not a limitless resource. Also, using modern day MBT's as an example is not really useful as the game is set 20,000 years in the future. Just as tank protection advances over time, so do anti-tank weapons. Just because tanks have developed ways to lower the current AV 'nades damage, this doesn't mean they're as effective against the plasma charges of the future (as an example not an explanation). The fact that they do more damage the Locus grenades is irrelevant. The Locus grenade is a fragmentation explosive, while the AV Grenade is solely focused on penetrating and disabling armour. While it does incredible amounts of damage, it is also incredibly short ranged. In this game of ranged engagements the Tank is king. If you're afraid of the Grenades use scanning modules to identify infantry from much farther away than they can throw these 'nades, use squad coordination as the guy trying to spam AV nades is easy pickings for pretty much any Light Weapon, use your higher top speed to escape the would be suicide grenadiers, use your armour/shield repairers (which repair over 1000 damage), use your armour/shield hardeners (which can reduce incoming damage by over 40%) or just recall your vehicle when you see the oppositions AV potential and go kill those AV users. Wow, all these options, I thought they were OP? nuf said
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 102	Posted - 2013.05.22 17:44:00 - [55] - Quote I find it funny that all the people saying AV nades aren't OP ignore the fact that blasters have a pretty short optimal range. Inside that range any AV nade can hit you.


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page