I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

There's no need to insult people who've killed you. Accusing people that have proto gear of "not getting laid" is juvenile. It's very sour grapes. Like, "Yeah, I lost... but I *totally* have a hot girlfriend at home, unlike you losers..." sort of way. People with more SP don't even need to play that much more a night than new players, they could've been collecting passive SP for the past few months.

The people in proto gear have nothing to do with the matchmaking system. They can't pick who they play against anymore than you. They aren't CCP. CCP developed matchmaking. The people you thanked are responsible; not the people you accuse of being no-lifers.

Balance issues are another factor. If you've been playing even slightly longer, you know that a single weapon type can crush pretty much everyone regardless of what gear or weapon they're using. This comes up with older players just entering the Battle Academy.. they can sink all their initial SP into getting that weapon, and dominate just as easily.

...

just make a score multiplier for lower tier players (Calculated with Total Fitting Metalevel), a lower TFM player will score more points against higher TFM players. This in turn grants them higher ISK and SP rewards

I've had a suggestion for awhile for having squad-only matchmaking options that, while not restricting squads to only these playlists, gives an extra ISK incentive to avoid pub-stomping and/or compensate for increased losses in the face of challenge.
They could still pubstomp if they wanted or for training new members, but it should be more worthwhile to fight other organized groups.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

Everyone listen to him, he really is the vast majority of new players mentality.

He speaks truth.

Best thread (and there are other good ones) thus far on the seriousness of the problem without attacking and getting lost in the back and forth. This IS the few people who are making a case for the HUNDREDS of players who will not come to the forums and voice. I've been here a long time as well and can hold my own but as a new player, hell even my little side account, quitting would not even be a hard decision if less than 6 months weren't logged already. Unless you're already playing DUST, I will/do not advertise to bring any of my friends into this game. I don't even talk about it and dismiss it to something else entirely should it somehow come up. I play DUST, but WE play "anything other" if I have company. It doesn't promote DUST but it also doesn't create the more likely negative outcome about it either. I suppose that is DRAW/WIN for CCP.

I'm just posting to show my support on addressing this issue. Good write ups you two. But it is simply about match making, and hopefully they will figure it out. . . SOON^tm.

Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring.

However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG.

If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn.

The most common argument I hear on this subject made mostly by pubstompers themselves. I'll just copy and paste my argument to this, which basically is whoever has the bigger stick is gonna win period.

Think about this...

Vet running all basic gear in a MLT suit having all core skills at max 25% more shield and armor 15% more damage and what 15 percent less dispersion and kick

vs

Noob with same gear with maybe shield and armor lvl 1 and (weapon) operation lvl 1

toe to toe who wins this gunfight?

Now give the vet. all proto gear with the ability to run more modules of better quality and better weapons, and put them in 6 man squads.

granted player skill plays a part, but it becomes more of a part of the game when there isn't such a disparity between opponents' skill (SP) lvl

Also remember that most of us who have played the game for a month or two at least aren't idiotic enough to go Rambo. We run in organized squads and use tactics.

How well do you think the noobs fair against this? I'll tell you it isn't pretty for them. I know, I was there...still am in some matches when I am faced off against vet players with 10 mil. + SP wearing all proto gear and running in full organized squads.

BTW I have about 5 mil SP...I hate to be the guy with 500k - 2 mil SP facing such a force.

Lastly CCP has already addressed this saying they are going to implement tiers and that the academy is temporary until they can find a better system.

Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring.

However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG.

If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn.

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

just make a score multiplier for lower tier players (Calculated with Total Fitting Metalevel), a lower TFM player will score more points against higher TFM players. This in turn grants them higher ISK and SP rewards

Source?

I agree and this is what the improved matchmaking is being designed to do. Hard separations like this are not optimal but are hopefully better than nothing at all while we continue to work on a proper solution.

I would feel more sympathy but I run militia only gear have like 3.5 k in skills (so I don't play a whole lot) which I didn't apply much outside of core skills yet because I was hoarding skill points (still need to apply them), but I am able to run an average .80-1:1 ratio against a full organized proto team while playing with randoms on mine. My general ratio is higher but that is because I fight more than just organized teams of protos.

These matches last like 2 to 5 mins so you shouldn't be racking up more than 4-5 deaths per match and if you are then there are just simple fps mechanics and tactics that are missing in your steps, something you just learn by playing fps. This was my first real fps shooter, so when I started I had a really low k/d ratio, but at that phase I wasn't getting bummed out for losing, I just got excited when I passed .6 on my ratio to eventually pass 1, 1.5, ect. I liked the idea behind this fps because it was slower progression than others, and it already has bars that slow down those crazy 24 hour players by having caps as I don't play as often.

Another thing, there are logis/equipment roles that can be piggy backed on to get skill points, in matches we get stopped I would drop a drop uplink and get first because everybody spawns at them, have a militia logi suit just for these cases and you will still gain points in those matches where you get stomped. I've gotten people hooked on the game by showing them these alternative methods

Lastly CCP has already addressed this saying they are going to implement tiers and that the academy is temporary until they can find a better system. There are really a lot of things to buffer new players when you think about it, from slower control reactions, academy, sp cap, alternative roles, ect. I'd just say that your friends don't like the lose and learn aspect of the game, which is unfortunate as I have ran into similar issues with people I know. The pro players who QQ on the forums are a testament that they wouldn't enjoy the game if they had less than a 3:1 ratio, meaning they have the same patience as a spoiled child and activity resist changes and balance. But for the rest of us who are capable of adapting and are ok with losing if it means getting better really is "The New Eden Way", and I've never played EVE either.

That might work for you and your play style and the role you have, but it doesn't work for everyone. Some people just don't like to lose. That is not a flaw with those people, they are just competitive. They get beat down for being one of the few trying to take objectives. Better matchmaking might not put them up against a weaker team, but put them ON a BETTER team. That would match up more like-minded individuals and might even encourage more squads and corporate activity. It would be much better for EVERYONE.

There's no need to insult people who've killed you. Accusing people that have proto gear of "not getting laid" is juvenile. It's very sour grapes. Like, "Yeah, I lost... but I *totally* have a hot girlfriend at home, unlike you losers..." sort of way. People with more SP don't even need to play that much more a night than new players, they could've been collecting passive SP for the past few months.

The people in proto gear have nothing to do with the matchmaking system. They can't pick who they play against anymore than you. They aren't CCP. CCP developed matchmaking. The people you thanked are responsible; not the people you accuse of being no-lifers.

Balance issues are another factor. If you've been playing even slightly longer, you know that a single weapon type can crush pretty much everyone regardless of what gear or weapon they're using. This comes up with older players just entering the Battle Academy.. they can sink all their initial SP into getting that weapon, and dominate just as easily.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

the problem with you new players is we VETS have been playing this game since open beta (some closed beta) we have invested many many hours . You have to EARN everything you get in Dust. Join a good corp (like KiLo. :) ) make friends in pub rooms and learn how to play

uograde your dropsuits, shields, armor and skill point to be able to hang in rooms. you can take on protos if you play smart and upgrade your skills you should be fine.. buy booster packs passive and active to stack more sp... stop crying and grind it out

the problem with you new players is we VETS have been playing this game since open beta (some closed beta) we have invested many many hours . You have to EARN everything you get in Dust. Join a good corp (like KiLo. :) ) make friends in pub rooms and learn how to play

uograde your dropsuits, shields, armor and skill point to be able to hang in rooms. you can take on protos if you play smart and upgrade your skills you should be fine.. buy booster packs passive and active to stack more sp... stop crying and grind it out..

you can do well with GEK rifles , HMG and other dropsuits you can compete with protos

To start off, I am competitive, just not an egoist who goes catatonic when a loss occurs or too afraid to take one for the team. Since the idea of losing is a limiting factor it would constitute it as a flaw. I have a moderate ratio that floats around 2:1, and only so much sp, so under you tier system I wouldnGÇÖt get to play against better players without long grinding to raise my k/d, sp, wp or whatever metric you use for tiers.

I am not against having different isk and sp rewards for killing higher equipment mercs, I'd be ecstatic on that actually considering my kills and equipment differences between them. That would also really make player skill more useful than equipment as the isk loss/gain ratio would be great for low equipped skilled players. Nor am I against a high sec, low sec, null sec construct but that doesnGÇÖt force players to separate but introduces incentives, as I would like to be in low or null.

What a heavy tier system would do is it wouldnGÇÖt have players review what they did wrong and improve their strategy for winning under uneven circumstances, even with one character build there are different strategy pending on the skill of your opponent, meaning it would create less adaptive players. Also there will never be even circumstances. Also I can personally attest that a discrepancy in game play skill is able to trump equipment and sp differences, team work on the other hand is a lot harder to topple and that difference would be hard to even out, unless you advocate breaking things up by equipment costs, sp, and by squad and no squad in which case the pools would be too small.

In regards to "getting beat down for trying to take an objective", mindlessly walking into the same situation over and over again without changing up your strategy and expecting different results is silly, but that alone is one of the best learning curves out there. If you got shot down with a head on charge dancing with a AR user, and you do the same thing again and again with that same AR user from the same direction, then the message starts to sink in and you see that reflected in how they approach things because things start to click after ones ego is able to let it go.

Also, learning occurs when you lose or see someone perform on a higher level. If you create a heavy tier system, no amount of equipment or sp is going to prepare you for the playing skill difference once you make that jump into the next tier, there is no avoiding that. Eventually there will be a point when you get bumped up and you will lose and then get bumped back down into the lower tier. The idea that veterans would ever see any new players is fictitious in and of itself.

Lastly, the elements we are working with here are entirely pvp oriented, no pve has been introduced and it is that sector which should be the home you are looking for. Tiers work for games which your side constitutes only you, in team oriented games tiers work as crutches, and that is my fear with a strict tier system in dust.

I can see the point you're making and I actually agree to the plain fact that people have to work to become proficient in what they do on the battlefield but your comparison I think is unfortunately a bit flawed.
You being the Vets of today never had the problem of grinding your way up against skilled, experienced and Proto geared players. When the beta started the game was new to everyone and the people fighting were equally experienced.
The new players of today don't have that. In order to accomplish the same the obstacles in their way are a lot harder to get over.
Maybe you should give it a try creating a new character and start your way up once you're out of the academy. After this point you have what it takes to speak about the problems on this issue.
None the less I agree to your statement that it's necessary for new people to group up with people and find a suitable corporation. But a lot players have never been in touch with the EVE Universe so they don't know how important it is to join a corporation. A lot of them come from COD or BF I'd assume, start the game, getting farmed over and over again and then go back to whereever they came from. And that ist just bad for DUST's environment.

This topic is not about the Vets telling the new players not to cry, it's about showing to CCP that there is a very high demand for a matchmaking system in order to keep new players stick to the game and therefor we should stop insulting each other and bringing up this issue in a mature and construcive manner.

Fact is that the current matches aren't balanced in any way and even though new players might be capable of scoring against the vets with their GEK in certain situations battles are a lot more fun when they are balanced and said battle is a competitive on instead of predetermined slaghter parties for the vets. The situation as it is right now is absolutely unfavorable for vets and newbs alike and I think this is an issue that needs to be solved by CCP as soon as possible.

If anyone of you should feel offended please accept my apologies and be sure that this was absolutey not my intention.

1000000000000000000000% agree.. I have a family and work and have proto gear.. OP sounds like a sore loser NEW BERRY player who wants everything right off the bat like COD.. go back to cod u baby

the problem with you new players is we VETS have been playing this game since open beta (some closed beta) we have invested many many hours . You have to EARN everything you get in Dust. Join a good corp (like KiLo. :) ) make friends in pub rooms and learn how to play

uograde your dropsuits, shields, armor and skill point to be able to hang in rooms. you can take on protos if you play smart and upgrade your skills you should be fine.. buy booster packs passive and active to stack more sp... stop crying and grind it out..

you can do well with GEK rifles , HMG and other dropsuits you can compete with protos

My question then has to be: Why are some of these self proclaimed awesome vets so against not getting to pubstomp?

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that. .

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

You started out reasonable, then turned into an f-head, for no reason. Well played, sir. Well played

a gear restriction would be much more effective.

all ive seen is proto and adv gear its really annoying.

and yet they complain about getting a 30/2 kdr throwing a fit about dieing.

in my opinion proto gear should be given massive negative drawbacks such as higher pg/cpu reqs and various other stuff while standard gear and be given the least pg/spu reqs and much more versatility in the field.

this sounds like a good away to balance the game.

my other option is restricting proto and adv gear from pub matches all together therefore making pubstomping next to impossible.

You started out reasonable, then turned into an f-head, for no reason. Well played, sir. Well played.

a gear restriction would be much more effective.

all ive seen is proto and adv gear its really annoying.

and yet they complain about getting a 30/2 kdr throwing a fit about dieing.

in my opinion proto gear should be given massive negative drawbacks such as higher pg/cpu reqs and various other stuff while standard gear and be given the least pg/spu reqs and much more versatility in the field.

this sounds like a good away to balance the game.

my other option is restricting proto and adv gear from pub matches all together therefore making pubstomping next to impossible.

a gear restriction would be much more effective.

all ive seen is proto and adv gear its really annoying.

and yet they complain about getting a 30/2 kdr throwing a fit about dieing.

in my opinion proto gear should be given massive negative drawbacks such as higher pg/cpu reqs and various other stuff while standard gear and be given the least pg/spu reqs and much more versatility in the field.

this sounds like a good away to balance the game.

my other option is restricting proto and adv gear from pub matches all together therefore making pubstomping next to impossible.

You are right, I did. It was an unfair stab at the inevitable "screw the blueberries, Dust and Eve are for elites" mentality that seems to plague these forums. That attitude is total BS. On the other hand, my preemptive blast on something I expected to happen was not fair. At least not in the general sense in which I put it.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

Making matchmaking a priority would be effective. It's not our fault that we get matched up against newberries that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. There's no tutorial and nothing from keeping them out of our battles. Why should we have to pay a price for being here first?

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

PVE will help.maintain numbers though it wouldnt promote team playing.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

Coop PVE would, in eve people can create fleets (kinda like a squad of ships) and do gang missioning its a quicker method and also more fun as there are other people, i dont know why this sort of thing would not be allowed in Dust

CCP, matchmaking, and aiming have to become a priority. I've posted my ides here (matchmaking) and here (Statistics) .

I'm an Eve player and got into DUST in early closed beta, but didn't really start playing regularly till open beta. While the learning curve for DUST was steep, I stuck with it for Eve's sake. I'm a 2-3 KDR player with 8mil sp well allocated who typically plays in squads and enjoys the team-support playstyle.

However, I have 4 brother-in-laws with whom I regularly play FPS on console; none of them stuck with DUST more than 2 days. Poor aiming and proto pubstomping (my words) were their chief gripes. So we went back to playing other console FPSs

With the implementation of Academy battles I decided to create an Alt, just to see how the system operated. I haven't had so much fun in all my DUST playing!! It was a blast to go toe-to-toe with players of similar fittings and similar SP, with no squad organization (usually). I couldn't stop playing Academy battles because it was so much fun. After I reached 10,000 war points, I rolled another alt, just to jump back into Academy battles. After that one hit 10k, I deleted him and rolled another alt. Because the playing field had been leveled (somewhat) I learned so much about strategy: When to engage, when to disengage, when to retreat and when to attack, when to move in head on, and when to flank. After several hours in Academy battles, I have returned to my main a much more intelligent player. *sigh, and back to less fun, more frustrating matches.

Sadly, none of the real problems that drove my brother-in-laws away have been fixed. I hold out hope that in the near future, CCP will implament real changes that will incentivize my family and friends to try DUST again, and this time, to keep playing DUST.

In reality, the MAIN problem here is that the game does nothing to stress the utmost importance of playing the game in squads. Sure, the protosuits and TARs hurt, but the real danger, and the real reason the vets "protostomp" is because they are playing together as a squad. My own corp frequently puts squads of low SP, or low gears players together and does just fine, because we play as a squad.

If the game itself would cram down new player's throats the importance of creating their squads before battle, and communicating on voice comms together, the MAJORITY of the problem here would disappear. This is how Dust is played by anyone who does well, and it seems that organized squad play is how they have built the game out to be played. So why isn't it explained in clear terms to the players?

Yes, the TAR is ridiculous, and basically 9 out of 10 proto vets use it, but working in a squad can mostly mitigate that problem.

Look at all the folks who want to solo a squad. Its sad. :( Learn how to squad perhaps? Invest into a mic? Solo Player should NEVER be able to woop a squad's ass if they are working together. That is just how it is. Team > Solo.

Yes, new players lose to a squad, and the only thing they see is the black suit or the gun in the kill feed and they assume that's why they died.

This is why these people need to have "GET IN A SQUAD, USE A MIC" jammed into their brains with an ice pick by the game. They are simply making incorrect assumptions because CCP hasn't built the game in a way that explains to them the ACTUAL problem with their strategy (or complete and utter lack thereof).

Furthermore, the entire concept of Resource Management needs to be brought into focus, and the idea of winning a "david vs. goliath" fight.

Players are so used to the goal of a game simply being to have a positive KDR, that they don't realize that particular stat isn't particularly relevant in Dust 514. Players are so used to everything being balanced to vanilla, that they don't even know how to handle losing. They can't get any enjoyment out of the 1 kill where they destroyed a 200k ISK suit with their FREE suit, because they are so hung up on the 5 deaths and their meaningless KDR statistic.

If it was made clear "you will die more in cheap gear, don't let that be a deterent, think in terms of profit/loss, not kill/death" they would understand the dynamics of the game, and that they simply have their priorities and goals wrong as a new player.


The problem is CCP is so used to a good portion of their game happening outside of client (because EVE) that they have forgotten that on a console F2P game, all of the important information needs to be present IN GAME. If they want the game to play differently than a normal shooter, with different goals, and different strategies, then they need to TELL THE PLAYERS IN GAME that the game plays different than a normal shooter, with different goals, and different strategies.

Most players aren't going to seek out and check a website to find out how to play a game that they downloaded for free. They are going to pop the thing in, give it a whirl, and if it doesn't make sense and feel fun (or challenging/fair), they will just turn it off and delete it.

As an eve player this is my exact approach to the game and maybe the reason why I can't understand people complaining about being killed by protos. I die to them too but it doesn't bother me so long as I'm winning the isk war (the only war IMO). It would help if this was the stat that popped up at the end of the match rather than kdr, it showed isk spent vs isk destroyed

Yes, new players lose to a squad, and the only thing they see is the black suit or the gun in the kill feed and they assume that's why they died.

This is why these people need to have "GET IN A SQUAD, USE A MIC" jammed into their brains with an ice pick by the game. They are simply making incorrect assumptions because CCP hasn't built the game in a way that explains to them the ACTUAL problem with their strategy (or complete and utter lack thereof).

Furthermore, the entire concept of Resource Management needs to be brought into focus, and the idea of winning a "david vs. goliath" fight.

Players are so used to the goal of a game simply being to have a positive KDR, that they don't realize that particular stat isn't particularly relevant in Dust 514. Players are so used to everything being balanced to vanilla, that they don't even know how to handle losing. They can't get any enjoyment out of the 1 kill where they destroyed a 200k ISK suit with their FREE suit, because they are so hung up on the 5 deaths and their meaningless KDR statistic.

If it was made clear "you will die more in cheap gear, don't let that be a deterent, think in terms of profit/loss, not kill/death" they would understand the dynamics of the game, and that they simply have their priorities and goals wrong as a new player.


The problem is CCP is so used to a good portion of their game happening outside of client (because EVE) that they have forgotten that on a console F2P game, all of the important information needs to be present IN GAME. If they want the game to play differently than a normal shooter, with different goals, and different strategies, then they need to TELL THE PLAYERS IN GAME that the game plays different than a normal shooter, with different goals, and different strategies.

Most players aren't going to seek out and check a website to find out how to play a game that they downloaded for free. They are going to pop the thing in, give it a whirl, and if it doesn't make sense and feel fun (or challenging/fair), they will just turn it off and delete it.

Eh, it's not about ISK. If it were, you'd never see a proto on the field. It's about KDR, specifically because that's what determines the match. Did your team's KDR beat the others team's KDR?

I hate the matchmaking. I play primarily between midnight and server maintenance, which means I spend a fair amount of time in small squads and in no-squad games. I routinely end up in matches where one side has two or three squads of high-level clan members, most rocking proto, and my side has me, maybe two other vets and a bunch of randoms with neither clan, squad nor gear. I might die less than the newbies, but it's no less frustrating to lose a game to shoddy matchmaking.

And yeah, I've had a lot of friends check this game out briefly and leave. Most of them left because losing on a constant basis isn't fun in any sense of the word. It's like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube while colorblind.

Someone in my clan, maybe chuck, suggested having options for gear-specific matches. Rather than just banning proto gear, simply have an option to go into matches with gear caps. Similar to militia-only idea, I suppose. And it's basically what 'training' clan battles do, albeit with laughable results when someone breaks the rules. But yeah, having a way for all players to join games where SP and resulting gear isn't a factor would go a long way towards keeping new players around. And you'd still have normal matches for those who'd spec'ed into proto gear and were wanting to use it.

The only objection I can see to the idea is one of, 'Well, no one would play normal matches.' And if that's the case, who would care but the proto guys who aren't allowed to pubstomp newbies anymore?

Look at all the folks who want to solo a squad. Its sad. :( Learn how to squad perhaps? Invest into a mic? Solo Player should NEVER be able to woop a squad's ass if they are working together. That is just how it is. Team > Solo.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

I think you should close off FW to a certain skill/WP level to allow the vets a place to bash skulls outside of PC and make more of them available.

If you added a way for us to join faction warfare as a corporation for a certain race then newbros can enter, but at their own risk.

I don't like this idea in general, but besides that, there aren't currently enough FW battles to support this idea.

alten hilt, you make a very good point, and although I disagree with you about the type of gear being used to stomp I believe that you have hit the root of the problem. Unfortunately there is no way to fix the problem you described. The dis-organized teams will always lose. If you find a bunch of blues bunched together it is your best interests to stay where the firepower is. Move with them and don't separate. The stragglers are the ones who get picked off first. They are the ones the logis can't get to.

This is the main reason for a battle to be won or lost ...teamwork. I would rather see a who "Team" that sticks together run around in militia gear and nothing but than a "Team" of proto lone wolfs on my side any day of the week. This has been proven by the OPERATION COLLAPSE that Hellstorm performed in preparation for planetary conquest.

I support a squad based matchmaking system. Match battles for squads with squads. Match solos with solos and you will find the experience much more rewarding.

There's no need to insult people who've killed you. Accusing people that have proto gear of "not getting laid" is juvenile. It's very sour grapes. Like, "Yeah, I lost... but I *totally* have a hot girlfriend at home, unlike you losers..." sort of way. People with more SP don't even need to play that much more a night than new players, they could've been collecting passive SP for the past few months.

The people in proto gear have nothing to do with the matchmaking system. They can't pick who they play against anymore than you. They aren't CCP. CCP developed matchmaking. The people you thanked are responsible; not the people you accuse of being no-lifers.

Balance issues are another factor. If you've been playing even slightly longer, you know that a single weapon type can crush pretty much everyone regardless of what gear or weapon they're using. This comes up with older players just entering the Battle Academy.. they can sink all their initial SP into getting that weapon, and dominate just as easily.

How about an actual player leveling system? Base it off SP, 1,000,000SP per level. 10mil SP = Level 10 Galente

out of Academy -> 5,000,000 SP for first tier battles.
5,000,001SP -> 10,000,000 for next tier

and on and on and on.

once you hit the next tier no going back but if you want you can squad up with higher tier and play in their level.

Just an example but this would stop vets with all the upgrades from grabbing militia gear and stomping new players as would happen if CCP went with a gear lvl/matchmaking system. Got 12,569,546SP but didnt spend it? Better get ready, you're in a whole new league now. Didn't play for 6 months and you are loaded with SP? Should have been practicing beacuse now you're tiered in with harder players than when you left.

Oh, and just another suggestion...**** can the weekly SP cap and implement a total character cap. 50,000,000SP total or something. How am i supposed to finally reach a Vet's level if every week we have the same chance for points and a cap? Extra 30mil SP per release or something (i know this steals from other MMORPG's but it works IMO). Keep playing Uprising 1.3 and now you can level to 80,000,000 but once you hit it there you go.

Broad examples here and dont quote/or bash based on the numbers please just providing examples.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

Hi,

We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match.

These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side.

thanks for your patience.