DUST Search - Losing Players to Proto Stacking

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Mr PurpSicle wrote:

Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring.

However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG.

If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn.

The most common argument I hear on this subject made mostly by pubstompers themselves. I'll just copy and paste my argument to this, which basically is whoever has the bigger stick is gonna win period.

Think about this...

Vet running all basic gear in a MLT suit having all core skills at max 25% more shield and armor 15% more damage and what 15 percent less dispersion and kick

vs

Noob with same gear with maybe shield and armor lvl 1 and (weapon) operation lvl 1

toe to toe who wins this gunfight?

Now give the vet. all proto gear with the ability to run more modules of better quality and better weapons, and put them in 6 man squads.

granted player skill plays a part, but it becomes more of a part of the game when there isn't such a disparity between opponents' skill (SP) lvl

Also remember that most of us who have played the game for a month or two at least aren't idiotic enough to go Rambo. We run in organized squads and use tactics.

How well do you think the noobs fair against this? I'll tell you it isn't pretty for them. I know, I was there...still am in some matches when I am faced off against vet players with 10 mil. + SP wearing all proto gear and running in full organized squads.

BTW I have about 5 mil SP...I hate to be the guy with 500k - 2 mil SP facing such a force.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Scan Sweep Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:04:00 - [1] - Quote nukel head wrote: ... I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it. But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer. If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups. The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK. There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter. Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.
Scan Sweep Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.19 12:25:00 - [2] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Mr PurpSicle wrote: Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring. However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG. If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn. The most common argument I hear on this subject made mostly by pubstompers themselves. I'll just copy and paste my argument to this, which basically is whoever has the bigger stick is gonna win period. Think about this... Vet running all basic gear in a MLT suit having all core skills at max 25% more shield and armor 15% more damage and what 15 percent less dispersion and kick vs Noob with same gear with maybe shield and armor lvl 1 and (weapon) operation lvl 1 toe to toe who wins this gunfight? Now give the vet. all proto gear with the ability to run more modules of better quality and better weapons, and put them in 6 man squads. granted player skill plays a part, but it becomes more of a part of the game when there isn't such a disparity between opponents' skill (SP) lvl Also remember that most of us who have played the game for a month or two at least aren't idiotic enough to go Rambo. We run in organized squads and use tactics. How well do you think the noobs fair against this? I'll tell you it isn't pretty for them. I know, I was there...still am in some matches when I am faced off against vet players with 10 mil. + SP wearing all proto gear and running in full organized squads. BTW I have about 5 mil SP...I hate to be the guy with 500k - 2 mil SP facing such a force. Exactly. Word for word the situation I wanted to bring up. A new player who has never gotten in touch with EVE and/ or DUST or just the regular console gamer will immediately quit after being farmed over and over again for just a few matches. Not to forget that the whole gaming concept itself is already overwhelming and complex enough to barely convince the mormal player to stay longer than necessary. And the few who are willing to dive deeper into the game in order to give it a real chance will then pretty soon find out that this game, with all it's missing parts, its bugs and outdated graphics is still in beta. Which inevitably means "Bye bye potential squad member." The only ones left: The Pod Pilots of New Eden. Which means alienating New Eden's own playerbase. No new players is bad for everyone of us. But never the less - In its current status with all of its shortcomings I just can't recommend this game to other people. My assumption: DUST was originally planned to be released next year. Not just because of the date but because of its current status. Really sad to see so much disappointment on the forums but it is as it is. I'm pretty sure CCP is completely aware of all of those things but whatever the reasons were why DUST was released that early, something has to happen very quickly it seems. New players are needed!
Scan Sweep Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.05.20 12:01:00 - [3] - Quote iLLMaTiC619 wrote: iLLMaTiC619 wrote: Scan Sweep wrote: nukel head wrote: ... ... the problem with you new players is we VETS have been playing this game since open beta (some closed beta) we have invested many many hours . You have to EARN everything you get in Dust. Join a good corp (like KiLo. :) ) make friends in pub rooms and learn how to play uograde your dropsuits, shields, armor and skill point to be able to hang in rooms. you can take on protos if you play smart and upgrade your skills you should be fine.. buy booster packs passive and active to stack more sp... stop crying and grind it out.. you can do well with GEK rifles , HMG and other dropsuits you can compete with protos I can see the point you're making and I actually agree to the plain fact that people have to work to become proficient in what they do on the battlefield but your comparison I think is unfortunately a bit flawed. You being the Vets of today never had the problem of grinding your way up against skilled, experienced and Proto geared players. When the beta started the game was new to everyone and the people fighting were equally experienced. The new players of today don't have that. In order to accomplish the same the obstacles in their way are a lot harder to get over. Maybe you should give it a try creating a new character and start your way up once you're out of the academy. After this point you have what it takes to speak about the problems on this issue. None the less I agree to your statement that it's necessary for new people to group up with people and find a suitable corporation. But a lot players have never been in touch with the EVE Universe so they don't know how important it is to join a corporation. A lot of them come from COD or BF I'd assume, start the game, getting farmed over and over again and then go back to whereever they came from. And that ist just bad for DUST's environment. This topic is not about the Vets telling the new players not to cry, it's about showing to CCP that there is a very high demand for a matchmaking system in order to keep new players stick to the game and therefor we should stop insulting each other and bringing up this issue in a mature and construcive manner. Fact is that the current matches aren't balanced in any way and even though new players might be capable of scoring against the vets with their GEK in certain situations battles are a lot more fun when they are balanced and said battle is a competitive on instead of predetermined slaghter parties for the vets. The situation as it is right now is absolutely unfavorable for vets and newbs alike and I think this is an issue that needs to be solved by CCP as soon as possible. If anyone of you should feel offended please accept my apologies and be sure that this was absolutey not my intention.
Scan Sweep Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:31:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar wrote: CLONE117 wrote: ... Making matchmaking a priority would be effective. It's not our fault that we get matched up against newberries that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. There's no tutorial and nothing from keeping them out of our battles. Why should we have to pay a price for being here first? Of course it's not your fault being matched with new players. Absolutely. But on the other hand side: Why should new players have to pay the price for being here last? Either way and for the health of this game a compromize has to be made. Like CCP said: LeKjart wrote: Hi, We are aware that when people drop out of the academy pool, the matchmaking becomes more uneven. This is partly due to the fact that the current matchmaking system favors shorter waiting times rather than perfect matches. We are working on a solution that favors stricter matchmaking but at the expense of possibly longer waiting times, especially for veteran players as they might be fewer of the around than average players, and so take a longer time to fill up a match. These changes necessitate a client change to make players aware of the status of the wait, so it cannot be resolved completely on the server side. thanks for your patience. For now there are way to few players playing this game and for that a matchmaking system would be pretty much of a disadvantage for especially the veterans of the game. But this disadvantage could easily been positively influenced by the vets themselves ignoring proto or advanced gear giving the game a chance to grow in player numbers until it has reached a certain mass that is probable to sustain a viable matchmaking system. Because pubstomping the newer players, while knowing that there is now proper tutorial for them, is not just pretty bad for the game and all of us, it is also deeply premature and shows how less of an elite gaming culture DUST has right now. Real pros don't just stomp new players. They teach them lessons by killing them and taking there time afterwards to give them advice how they could probably improve their play style to compete better in future matches. That's how the community of EVE has done it over the past ten years and it's the only way how to show potential players the eliteness of this game. Behaving like a bunny hopping teenager from COD or BF3 truly isn't the right way to think of yourself as pro, elite or whatever those people may consider themselves to be. All I say is that if we as a community want to show to the world, that we are not COD and not BF3 but a mature, respectful and responsibly acting community, then especially the veterans, but also every other player alike, should do their best to try to vitalize this game by helping people instead of just bullying them out of the game like it's a credo in other games. As a veteran stepping down from proto to basic in public matches while being aware of the missing matchmaking system and giving new players a really HARD BUT POSSIBLE chance to compete in those matches would, in my opnion, show real eliteness of said veterans. But by now this game has no elite at all. Acting like this will inevitably resonate throughout the gaming industry, leading to alot more players and a strong vitalization of the game so that protos could go back to their proto gear as soon as this situation is resolved. Think about it.
Scan Sweep United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:15:00 - [5] - Quote alten hilt wrote: CCP, matchmaking, and aiming have to become a priority. I've posted my ides here (matchmaking) and here (Statistics) . I'm an Eve player and got into DUST in early closed beta, but didn't really start playing regularly till open beta. While the learning curve for DUST was steep, I stuck with it for Eve's sake. I'm a 2-3 KDR player with 8mil sp well allocated who typically plays in squads and enjoys the team-support playstyle. However, I have 4 brother-in-laws with whom I regularly play FPS on console; none of them stuck with DUST more than 2 days. Poor aiming and proto pubstomping (my words) were their chief gripes. So we went back to playing other console FPSs With the implementation of Academy battles I decided to create an Alt, just to see how the system operated. I haven't had so much fun in all my DUST playing!! It was a blast to go toe-to-toe with players of similar fittings and similar SP, with no squad organization (usually). I couldn't stop playing Academy battles because it was so much fun. After I reached 10,000 war points, I rolled another alt, just to jump back into Academy battles. After that one hit 10k, I deleted him and rolled another alt. Because the playing field had been leveled (somewhat) I learned so much about strategy: When to engage, when to disengage, when to retreat and when to attack, when to move in head on, and when to flank. After several hours in Academy battles, I have returned to my main a much more intelligent player. *sigh, and back to less fun, more frustrating matches. Sadly, none of the real problems that drove my brother-in-laws away have been fixed. I hold out hope that in the near future, CCP will implament real changes that will incentivize my family and friends to try DUST again, and this time, to keep playing DUST. Unfortunately there isn't a double like button because that's exactly what I'm talking about all the time. YOU sir made my day! Same for me here. The academy was so much fun but as soon as...uhm no, not again, you all no what's coming next.