I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

There's no need to insult people who've killed you. Accusing people that have proto gear of "not getting laid" is juvenile. It's very sour grapes. Like, "Yeah, I lost... but I *totally* have a hot girlfriend at home, unlike you losers..." sort of way. People with more SP don't even need to play that much more a night than new players, they could've been collecting passive SP for the past few months.

The people in proto gear have nothing to do with the matchmaking system. They can't pick who they play against anymore than you. They aren't CCP. CCP developed matchmaking. The people you thanked are responsible; not the people you accuse of being no-lifers.

Balance issues are another factor. If you've been playing even slightly longer, you know that a single weapon type can crush pretty much everyone regardless of what gear or weapon they're using. This comes up with older players just entering the Battle Academy.. they can sink all their initial SP into getting that weapon, and dominate just as easily.

...

just make a score multiplier for lower tier players (Calculated with Total Fitting Metalevel), a lower TFM player will score more points against higher TFM players. This in turn grants them higher ISK and SP rewards

I've had a suggestion for awhile for having squad-only matchmaking options that, while not restricting squads to only these playlists, gives an extra ISK incentive to avoid pub-stomping and/or compensate for increased losses in the face of challenge.
They could still pubstomp if they wanted or for training new members, but it should be more worthwhile to fight other organized groups.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.

Everyone listen to him, he really is the vast majority of new players mentality.

He speaks truth.

Best thread (and there are other good ones) thus far on the seriousness of the problem without attacking and getting lost in the back and forth. This IS the few people who are making a case for the HUNDREDS of players who will not come to the forums and voice. I've been here a long time as well and can hold my own but as a new player, hell even my little side account, quitting would not even be a hard decision if less than 6 months weren't logged already. Unless you're already playing DUST, I will/do not advertise to bring any of my friends into this game. I don't even talk about it and dismiss it to something else entirely should it somehow come up. I play DUST, but WE play "anything other" if I have company. It doesn't promote DUST but it also doesn't create the more likely negative outcome about it either. I suppose that is DRAW/WIN for CCP.

I'm just posting to show my support on addressing this issue. Good write ups you two. But it is simply about match making, and hopefully they will figure it out. . . SOON^tm.

Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring.

However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG.

If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn.

The most common argument I hear on this subject made mostly by pubstompers themselves. I'll just copy and paste my argument to this, which basically is whoever has the bigger stick is gonna win period.

Think about this...

Vet running all basic gear in a MLT suit having all core skills at max 25% more shield and armor 15% more damage and what 15 percent less dispersion and kick

vs

Noob with same gear with maybe shield and armor lvl 1 and (weapon) operation lvl 1

toe to toe who wins this gunfight?

Now give the vet. all proto gear with the ability to run more modules of better quality and better weapons, and put them in 6 man squads.

granted player skill plays a part, but it becomes more of a part of the game when there isn't such a disparity between opponents' skill (SP) lvl

Also remember that most of us who have played the game for a month or two at least aren't idiotic enough to go Rambo. We run in organized squads and use tactics.

How well do you think the noobs fair against this? I'll tell you it isn't pretty for them. I know, I was there...still am in some matches when I am faced off against vet players with 10 mil. + SP wearing all proto gear and running in full organized squads.

BTW I have about 5 mil SP...I hate to be the guy with 500k - 2 mil SP facing such a force.

Lastly CCP has already addressed this saying they are going to implement tiers and that the academy is temporary until they can find a better system.

Yes this is a problem. Matchmaking should do something to prevent so called "pubstomping." Both noobs and vets will enjoy this. Trust me, vets don't like pubstomping. It is very boring.

However, what many new players (and some vets) don't understand is that equipment and SP probably have less than 50% to do with your success in pub matches. This game is still much more an FPS than it is an RPG.

If these mobs of proto geared players were to all switch to STD gear, they would still pwn.

I am already seeing many players quitting after being frustrated by nearly full proto teams against teams of randoms. I fear that the number of long term players will suffer from this.

This is where all the career 24/7 lifers that spend more time in the Eve universe than they do the real one will chime in with "that is just how it works in Eve" blah, blah, blah. All I can say to that is congratulations on your glorious one sided victories against lesser equipped players who actually get laid. Well played, sir. I know that THOSE players don't want instant battles changed so that they go up against anyone who is equally equipped because they will most likely lose and they don't like that.

It's a game, not a way of life. It is a really great game, but still a game. Some people take pokemon a little too seriously too.

To CCP - I want to thank you guys for an awesome game. What you have done is truly impressive and has potential to be one of the best games out there. While I think throwing in some stacked matches occasionally is a good thing, if a player comes in and spends the majority of the time getting cut in half by 16 duvolles while the rest of their team hides behind the red line they will probably stop playing. At least SOME balance is needed in INSTANT battles. That's just not fun.

I can manage to do well most of the time, but not as much fun when my friends all quit with "Well...I've had enough of THAT." Would be a shame to lose a lot of good players because of a minority that wants easy pub stomp matches.

just make a score multiplier for lower tier players (Calculated with Total Fitting Metalevel), a lower TFM player will score more points against higher TFM players. This in turn grants them higher ISK and SP rewards

Source?

I agree and this is what the improved matchmaking is being designed to do. Hard separations like this are not optimal but are hopefully better than nothing at all while we continue to work on a proper solution.

I would feel more sympathy but I run militia only gear have like 3.5 k in skills (so I don't play a whole lot) which I didn't apply much outside of core skills yet because I was hoarding skill points (still need to apply them), but I am able to run an average .80-1:1 ratio against a full organized proto team while playing with randoms on mine. My general ratio is higher but that is because I fight more than just organized teams of protos.

These matches last like 2 to 5 mins so you shouldn't be racking up more than 4-5 deaths per match and if you are then there are just simple fps mechanics and tactics that are missing in your steps, something you just learn by playing fps. This was my first real fps shooter, so when I started I had a really low k/d ratio, but at that phase I wasn't getting bummed out for losing, I just got excited when I passed .6 on my ratio to eventually pass 1, 1.5, ect. I liked the idea behind this fps because it was slower progression than others, and it already has bars that slow down those crazy 24 hour players by having caps as I don't play as often.

Another thing, there are logis/equipment roles that can be piggy backed on to get skill points, in matches we get stopped I would drop a drop uplink and get first because everybody spawns at them, have a militia logi suit just for these cases and you will still gain points in those matches where you get stomped. I've gotten people hooked on the game by showing them these alternative methods

Lastly CCP has already addressed this saying they are going to implement tiers and that the academy is temporary until they can find a better system. There are really a lot of things to buffer new players when you think about it, from slower control reactions, academy, sp cap, alternative roles, ect. I'd just say that your friends don't like the lose and learn aspect of the game, which is unfortunate as I have ran into similar issues with people I know. The pro players who QQ on the forums are a testament that they wouldn't enjoy the game if they had less than a 3:1 ratio, meaning they have the same patience as a spoiled child and activity resist changes and balance. But for the rest of us who are capable of adapting and are ok with losing if it means getting better really is "The New Eden Way", and I've never played EVE either.

That might work for you and your play style and the role you have, but it doesn't work for everyone. Some people just don't like to lose. That is not a flaw with those people, they are just competitive. They get beat down for being one of the few trying to take objectives. Better matchmaking might not put them up against a weaker team, but put them ON a BETTER team. That would match up more like-minded individuals and might even encourage more squads and corporate activity. It would be much better for EVERYONE.

There's no need to insult people who've killed you. Accusing people that have proto gear of "not getting laid" is juvenile. It's very sour grapes. Like, "Yeah, I lost... but I *totally* have a hot girlfriend at home, unlike you losers..." sort of way. People with more SP don't even need to play that much more a night than new players, they could've been collecting passive SP for the past few months.

The people in proto gear have nothing to do with the matchmaking system. They can't pick who they play against anymore than you. They aren't CCP. CCP developed matchmaking. The people you thanked are responsible; not the people you accuse of being no-lifers.

Balance issues are another factor. If you've been playing even slightly longer, you know that a single weapon type can crush pretty much everyone regardless of what gear or weapon they're using. This comes up with older players just entering the Battle Academy.. they can sink all their initial SP into getting that weapon, and dominate just as easily.

I feel exactly the same right now. I just dropped out of the academy yesterday. Until that time those battles were fun, extremely well balanced and constantly waving back and forth. I really liked it.

But this changed immediatly after dropping out of the academy and jumping into any of the public matches. Protos, Protos, Protos. One slaughter party after another. Six matches and not one single kill! Even though I really had taken care of choosing the right skills in order to get better equipment, by the time I joined the public matches DUST just wasn't fun any longer.

If my friends asked me if DUST was worth being played I had to say: Absolutely no! This has nothing to do with the game itself but with the fact that it's completely overrun by all the veterans who are now hunting the random goups.

The only way to avoid that: AFKing! Seriously. With the current state of the game there is literally no other chance to compete against all those Protos than hiding or AFKing. Right now there is absolutely no point in fighting or even investing in anything else than Militia or Proto gear. Everything else in between is a complete waste of ISK.

There are already three of my friends who guit after they were constantly being farmed for two days by the veterans. CCP tried to transfer the idea of personal skill being more important than equipment and skills from EVE to DUST but this just doesn't seem to work at all for a FPS shooter.

Never the less, until a matchmaking system is implemented and working this game will lose a lot of new and potential players due to being one of the worst new player experiences out there so far. And until that hiding & AFKing will be king for new players.

To be clear:
I don't have anything against the veterans and their proto gear in person. They also can't choose their opponents. They are also restricted by the actual game mechanics. I'm against the current status quo of the game and the fact that these problems even exist after the game was launched. But unfortunately this game is very very far from being finished.