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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
330
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Posted - 2013.05.22 02:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ecshon Autorez wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I'd prefer heat, as that's stuck as an Amarr-specific trait at the moment, which seems limiting. I'd prefer a separate sharpshooter skill for dispersion. I agree on seperate skill for dispersion and kick. I can't decide which I think would be better for the SR: heat build-up reduction or increased cooldown speed, but I'm leaning towards decreased heat build-up. I KNOW heat build-up reduction would best for the LR, instead of its current increased cooldown speed, but that's for another thread.
I'd assume build-up reduction, because that would synergize with the Amarr skill. Then the Amarr remain the most talented "laser" people, but others would also see firing the scrambler become less risky by rank 5. The charge time was already so low as to not be a big deal anyhow. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
331
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Posted - 2013.05.22 04:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
If I read the skills correctly, with the passive changed to heat build-up, a maxed Amarr Assault would get roughly twice as many shots till overheat. Something like: "Charge shot, 6 more rapid shots, overheat" instead of "Charge shot, 3 rapid shots, overheat" (in the case of having neither passive). The gun would still overheat quickly and couldn't be used reliably as a rapid-fire weapon, you'd just have more fudge room I think. The dispersion element would still be there. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
337
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Posted - 2013.05.22 10:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm not sure if this would be part of a skill-tree reworking or not... |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
18
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Posted - 2013.05.22 18:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
The tree edits today were pretty big, curious what else is in the pipe. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
349
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Posted - 2013.05.24 03:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:The tree edits today were pretty big, curious what else is in the pipe.
Well, obviously they want to fix this problem... |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3964
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Posted - 2013.05.24 04:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Assault scrambler rifle never overheats, so I propose a range bonus |
Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
172
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Posted - 2013.05.24 04:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:The more I use the carthum assault variant... I feel like a 5% reduction to kick would really help, esp since the duvolle, at ARO5 feels like it has no kick compared to the carthum.
Charge time redux on semi auto and kick redux on auto variants... would really help. Is it more "kick" or dispersion? I feel like the assault scramblers really toss shots all over in comparison to ARs.
This is where I would also place this [REQUEST] Gives us a SCR Sharpshooter skill to bring down the dispersion (same as the AR at 5% per level). The weapon doesn't so much have kick, rather it has a greater dispersion area the longer you attempt to continuously fire it.
I have ben saying that the SCR needs both an optimal and effective range buff (20-25%), while the ASCR needs the optimal range stretched a bit (15-20%).
As fo the base skill, it should have been heat build up reduction (either by per shot or per second, I can't remember off the top of my head about the stats).
This weapon is far from functioning according to the lore and mechanics of New Eden. The SCR is a pulse laser, as DEVs have already pointed out in previous threads with typically a range (and that is if I remember correctly) 15-20% farther than the Blasters (at least the ship based ones). Beam lasers should have the longest range, with the gauss/rail guns next, the projectiles (i.e., the Minmatar combat rifle), then Pulse lasers and Blasters. The Blasters should have one of the highest ROF's, with the pulse laser and the combat rifle next, the gauss rifle being one of the lowest ROFs and the beam laser being a continuous stream.
I just wonder if they are going to bring the weapons more in line with lore, or if CCP plans on bending lore to the ehim of the gods??? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
352
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
I mentioned this in another thread, but when last I checked, Pulse Lasers had better range than Blasters by about a 4:1 ratio. So, not even in the same class.
I think a range increasing skill would bother people more than a heat build-up reducing skill, as even with heat build-up on the Amarr Assault, the gun still overheats quickly.
I'm not against the idea of a separate new sharpshooter skill to rein in dispersion on the scrambler though. |
Nikea Nei
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.05.24 13:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I mentioned this in another thread, but when last I checked, Pulse Lasers had better range than Blasters by about a 4:1 ratio. So, not even in the same class.
I think a range increasing skill would bother people more than a heat build-up reducing skill, as even with heat build-up on the Amarr Assault, the gun still overheats quickly.
I'm not against the idea of a separate new sharpshooter skill to rein in dispersion on the scrambler though.
+1 For the overheat skill. The range comparison is EVE? How similar are the types supposed to be across games? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
357
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Posted - 2013.05.24 22:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
I would assume they want their lore at least somewhat consistent, since we share a universe directly. |
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Skilfer
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
32
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Posted - 2013.05.24 22:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nikea Nei wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I mentioned this in another thread, but when last I checked, Pulse Lasers had better range than Blasters by about a 4:1 ratio. So, not even in the same class.
I think a range increasing skill would bother people more than a heat build-up reducing skill, as even with heat build-up on the Amarr Assault, the gun still overheats quickly.
I'm not against the idea of a separate new sharpshooter skill to rein in dispersion on the scrambler though. +1 For the overheat skill. The range comparison is EVE? How similar are the types supposed to be across games?
The type-relationship question I recently inquired to CCP on one of the CPM threads. I have still have not heard back. Personally, I want a final verification as to if the relationships are supposed to relate to how they are in EVE or not, and if not, what are they intentionally changing. |
Arx Ardashir
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.05.24 22:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Unfortunately if we were to be closer to EVE in terms of weapon mechanics, all rapid-fire blasters (like the AR) would have to be SMGs.
You could get more range by putting in a different ammo type, but we don't have those on the ground yet. |
Skilfer
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
34
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Posted - 2013.05.24 23:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Unfortunately if we were to be closer to EVE in terms of weapon mechanics, all rapid-fire blasters (like the AR) would have to be SMGs.
You could get more range by putting in a different ammo type, but we don't have those on the ground yet.
Not necessarily. Ignoring the existence of the TAR for a moment, let's look at how the EVE relationship could work. You begin by creating large overall AR range that would always be above the SMG, but never above the LR. This range would then be divided up into fourths. The blaster AR would have absurd destructive damage like the TAR now, that will just tear through anything, but would require you to be close(yet not as close as an SMG). Slightly above that would be the Minmatar Combat Rifle with a little less damage than the blaster variant. The SR would be next, with again, a little more range and a little less overall damage. Then finally, at the overall AR max range marker, would be the Caldari Rail Rifle which would have the least amount of damage out of all 4 racial AR's.
If this was the case, I feel that the Minmatar Combat Rifle would become the mainstay AR as it would feel the most like an AR should in both acceptable range, and damage. Each weapon would hard-counter the other in some way and utilization would require situation awareness and tactics, thereby making each weapon valuable in its own right and bringing truth the term "specialization." |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
360
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Posted - 2013.05.25 05:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
I definitely wouldn't mind if the Scrambler Pistol had longer range too. It doesn't have sights, relatively low ammo, etc.
Still, on-topic, the Scrambler Rifle passive needs to be fixed. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
377
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Posted - 2013.05.26 06:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:Unfortunately if we were to be closer to EVE in terms of weapon mechanics, all rapid-fire blasters (like the AR) would have to be SMGs.
You could get more range by putting in a different ammo type, but we don't have those on the ground yet.
There's supposed to be a "Mag-sec SMG" if it matters. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
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Posted - 2013.05.27 13:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Arx Ardashir wrote:Unfortunately if we were to be closer to EVE in terms of weapon mechanics, all rapid-fire blasters (like the AR) would have to be SMGs.
You could get more range by putting in a different ammo type, but we don't have those on the ground yet. There's supposed to be a "Mag-sec SMG" if it matters.
Actually, I think the Mag-sec SMG might be rail-based. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
412
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Posted - 2013.05.28 03:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
In any event, the weapons should be balanced holistically - with stats and passives taken into account. The chief concern of this thread is that the passive ignores a weapon variant. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
460
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Posted - 2013.05.29 20:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Yeah.... I may be bumping this so doesn't get lost in the rebalance. However they're "balancing" things, they need to fix the skill. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
1029
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Posted - 2013.05.29 23:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
I haven't looked at this weapon myself but skills tied to a specific weapon type should most certainly help all weapons within that type.
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Rachoi
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
81
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Posted - 2013.05.29 23:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
i've looked at the skills ,and tested it before my respec hit. the skill is dead useless to thsoe that prefer the Assault variant.
the whole lack of charge is why it is, since the skill reduces charge time only, and nothing else. when a skill like this comes into play, it's saying "hey, you should only be using this type of weapon, even though we have other variants" and we already have a monster like that fielded by players every day, the Tac AR.
the reduction on charge time is nice, but id rather see something closer to mroe heat capacity in the guns, that would make some variance more useful |
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
467
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Posted - 2013.05.30 05:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rachoi wrote:i've looked at the skills ,and tested it before my respec hit. the skill is dead useless to thsoe that prefer the Assault variant.
the whole lack of charge is why it is, since the skill reduces charge time only, and nothing else. when a skill like this comes into play, it's saying "hey, you should only be using this type of weapon, even though we have other variants" and we already have a monster like that fielded by players every day, the Tac AR.
the reduction on charge time is nice, but id rather see something closer to mroe heat capacity in the guns, that would make some variance more useful
The assault variant being left out is the chief issue, but I don't feel like the charge time reduction is particularly useful.
Any time you're charging you're weapon, odds are you don't need to do it a fraction of a second quicker. If you're lining up a shot in relatively safety, that fractional time to get the charge won't matter. If we're talking about the charge-time reduction reducing the delay BETWEEN shots, it's even less useful, because if you're actually using it for speed purposes - you'd just overheat your gun. If you're not caring about speed there - the slightly reduced delay obviously won't help you. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
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Posted - 2013.05.31 05:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reviving this, since it hasn't been addressed still. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2013.05.31 06:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nikea Nei wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I mentioned this in another thread, but when last I checked, Pulse Lasers had better range than Blasters by about a 4:1 ratio. So, not even in the same class.
I think a range increasing skill would bother people more than a heat build-up reducing skill, as even with heat build-up on the Amarr Assault, the gun still overheats quickly.
I'm not against the idea of a separate new sharpshooter skill to rein in dispersion on the scrambler though. +1 For the overheat skill. The range comparison is EVE? How similar are the types supposed to be across games? In this case not similar. The "blaster" is much better attributed to the shotgun. High power, very low range. Just devastating damage potential that screams "Just you wait until I get into range!"
The Assault Rifle just expands on Gallente Plasma tech to round out our arsenal with a long(er) range option than our other equipment. We can also just as effectively use Railgun tech by the Caldari due to the hybrid design of the weapons, though. You can think of the Gallente Plasma AR as a 425mm Railgun II that is using Antimatter charges or Javelin charges (both greatly reduce the weapons optimal range but increase its damage) whereas the upcoming Caldari Rail Rifle would be a 425mm using Uranium, or Lead charges (lowered damage values but benefit with increased range) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
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Posted - 2013.05.31 10:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Nikea Nei wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I mentioned this in another thread, but when last I checked, Pulse Lasers had better range than Blasters by about a 4:1 ratio. So, not even in the same class.
I think a range increasing skill would bother people more than a heat build-up reducing skill, as even with heat build-up on the Amarr Assault, the gun still overheats quickly.
I'm not against the idea of a separate new sharpshooter skill to rein in dispersion on the scrambler though. +1 For the overheat skill. The range comparison is EVE? How similar are the types supposed to be across games? In this case not similar. The "blaster" is much better attributed to the shotgun. High power, very low range. Just devastating damage potential that screams "Just you wait until I get into range!" The Assault Rifle just expands on Gallente Plasma tech to round out our arsenal with a long(er) range option than our other equipment. We can also just as effectively use Railgun tech by the Caldari due to the hybrid design of the weapons, though. You can think of the Gallente Plasma AR as a 425mm Railgun II that is using Antimatter charges or Javelin charges (both greatly reduce the weapons optimal range but increase its damage) whereas the upcoming Caldari Rail Rifle would be a 425mm using Uranium, or Lead charges (lowered damage values but benefit with increased range)
I would think Plasma and Rail Rifles are separate things for the purpose of lore, otherwise there'd be no point in releasing a rail rifle. |
Protected Void
One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed.
11
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
+1 for the skill to reduce either kick or dispersion. At the very least make it useful for all variants of the weapon. |
JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 13:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:As the title suggests, the Scrambler rifle uniquely has a passive that when maxed will do exactly jack-squat for a subset of the weapon types. Assault scrambler rifles have no charge feature, the passive only affects charge time - ergo, the scrambler passive inflicts the unique role on the SR of having a passive skill that provides no benefit.
Consider fixing this? Overheat reduction? Something actually useful to Scrambler users?
I'm a big Imperial SR fan and I totally agree with this statement
There is not really a situation that even calls for a -.5s reduction in charge time. Whenever I charge the rifle, I make sure I have tons of time to line a shot up anyway. I'm never in the middle of a CQC fight and try to charge it. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
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Posted - 2013.05.31 14:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:As the title suggests, the Scrambler rifle uniquely has a passive that when maxed will do exactly jack-squat for a subset of the weapon types. Assault scrambler rifles have no charge feature, the passive only affects charge time - ergo, the scrambler passive inflicts the unique role on the SR of having a passive skill that provides no benefit.
Consider fixing this? Overheat reduction? Something actually useful to Scrambler users? I'm a big Imperial SR fan and I totally agree with this statement There is not really a situation that even calls for a -.5s reduction in charge time. Whenever I charge the rifle, I make sure I have tons of time to line a shot up anyway. I'm never in the middle of a CQC fight and try to charge it.
I agree. While literally having no function for a variant is unacceptable, I have to admit that it's very lousy passive to begin with. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
22
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Posted - 2013.05.31 18:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
No updates this week. |
Celeblhach
Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi
23
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Posted - 2013.05.31 18:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:
Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range
Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time.
From another Scrambler Rifle Thread, CCP Remnant talks about weapon variants for racial rifles.
EDIT: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81243&p=2 |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
512
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Posted - 2013.05.31 23:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
I recall that thread (I have some comments in there). I view fixing a passive that isn't in effect on all variants as somewhat separate from balancing.
It needs to be changed because it doesn't help the assault variant in any way, shape, or form. How they change it could affect balance, but the bottom line is getting it changed. |
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