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Thog A Kuma Planetary Response Organisation 81	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:23:00 - [1] - Quote The Nurf we got was never important enough to communicate to us in the first place. None of the MD threads have received the grace of even a Dev "noted looking in to it" I'm guessing there aren't enough MD users to warrant limited and expensive development attention. but to re-outline the issues in as comprehensive manner as possible here goes: 1, blast radius got nurfed (but not so low that the MD user cannot kill himself). 2, Damage got nurfed 3, smoke trail doesn't follow actual flight path and with new damage radius if you hit a target with the smoke the actual damage is too far away to actually hurt the target. 4, the blast visual effect occurs at a time that does not appear to coincide with when the damage is actually assigned to the blast radius. It is really hard to hit a moving target with a projectile that takes 2-4 seconds of flight where all your visual cues are misplaced in time and space. 5, Nanohives were always a requirement for a MD user they now have been nurfed some and this really hurts (a lot) 6, Scanning and the minimap is now less precise for everyone, but the MD user is the only class that kills itself if its target is too close. with the exception of the FG all other weapon types in surprise close encounter could just start spraying and preying. 7, Shield tanks got bigger. MD already must carry a nanohive it seems kinda silly that they also must carry Flux and their engagement range then necessarily corresponds to the player's throwing arm (plus the detonation timing of the flux). 8, in removing the death sound sometimes a MD user can kill a player but have to spend some time making sure they didn't miss ant the target is still near and looking for them. The white smoke of the blast hides the +50 and the corpse disappears because the damage we do is sufficient to render the target unsurvivable. 9, with the lowered blast radius, proper jumping seems to be able to completely negate the MD's blast damage. 10, It appears that in some circumstances our rounds just don't plow up. 11, Some times a fired round that appears to blow up right next to your target does no damage to the target. I believe for the above reasons the nurf went far beyond whatever play change intended. Individually all of these issues are survivable for the MD, Some of these are really minor but when you add all of these together the MD has lost its place as a viable support weapon. There still are, and there will be, those few of us that still can place a round on a target's feet in almost any circumstance. They are not normal but yes the top 5% of MD users will be able to adapt because they are just awesome..there are the rest of us to consider. The old MD could kill bunches of people if they decided to group up and stay grouped...If you didn't want to die stupidly you didn't have to hang in a conga line. The MD's role was to either flush the entrenched or pin the mobile. We did this by using our intimidating blast as a threat with teeth. With the blast radius and damage nurfs people aren't intimidated, we have to shoot so close we may as well just hit them. When we cannot actually hit them dropping a round on a corner where your opponent is hiding used to either back them up or make them charge, now the blast is so small they can just hang out because you cannot make them move. We can still kill but our effectiveness at our role is gone, now we are a direct damage weapon, just like all the others in the game. I would be really curious to read the MD's K/D and other usage data, from my experience We never dominated the K/D ranks, Some of us could of course, but what was the overall effectiveness of the MD and what is it now?. I've never heard why this was done, I'm curious as to the reason. I know there aren't many of us, but a few moments to clue us in would be really appreciated. CCP what is the role of the MD in your eyes? how do the changes that were made support that role? Do you have any plans to tinker with the MD in the future?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 141	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:34:00 - [2] - Quote Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it.
LeCuch Red Star. EoN. 83	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:37:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah. My tanks got super nurfed. It's just a gun, you can choose one of like 14 others.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 642	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:37:00 - [4] - Quote The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds.
SirManBoy Planetary Response Organization 38	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:42:00 - [5] - Quote ttt for the MD It used to be a great weapon. Now it's a joke.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 246	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:44:00 - [6] - Quote Claiming they were easy mode tells me you hardly if ever picked one up. he brought up several valid points including a bug that have so far been ignored. The MD was never a slayer's tool it was a suppression and crowd control weapon a function it can hardly fulfill in its current state. As is typical your tags foreshadow your ****** attitude
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 293	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:45:00 - [7] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. Disagree Recon. As an exclusive MD user last build. The MD is designed to be a suppression weapon and that radius was needed. Now one can argue that the base plus the operation skill made it a bit too large no longer requiring even the simplest bit of aiming. That said in CB the MD wasnt the offensive juggernaut that it is in pubs. I used a Freedom with prof 3 and 2dmg mods and it really couldnt get kills agaisnt protobears. But it was just right enough for suppression. Its arch now being smaller makes it a more direct attack weapon in which it isnt all that effective. It really needs its arch so it can server its real purpose in organized manners. A high perch mortar like suppression weapon which it did well but not exceedingly well in CB's. Pub data is not a good measure of MD activity because most ppl ran adv or lower gear and mostly shield tanked so once shields were gone(or eaten up using stacked dmg mods) kills were very easy to come by. THE final and most important point is that with FF in PC the large radius is as much a liability as it is an assest. Those who play the weapon sloppily will simply end up killing their own teammates. Now i can agree with you that because of its splash levels people rarely used the assault or breach varaints. but in truth the assualt variant wasnt an issue of radius but a insignifcant level of dmg, it simply wasnt enough of a factor to force people to take cover. I havent looked at the uprising levels but if they followed a similar model where the radius was larger at the cost of splash dmg then it will still be worthless.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:45:00 - [8] - Quote Truth of the matter is CCP will look into things when they feel things get hot. HMG thread of QQ got 30 pages long and lo and behold CCP is caving in with hot fixes. MD was not a 'win button weapon' so few ppl specialized in it, so now we dont have the numbers to be able to influence CCP. The way things are it's only OP weapons that will be looked into like tanks AR and HMG because they have a huge lobby that can influence CCP. This is ironic.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 393	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:49:00 - [9] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. The MD has never been easy mode. It is, in fact, one of the most difficult to use handheld weapons. All of the OP's points are valid.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:50:00 - [10] - Quote Along with the severe blast radius nerf, they changed the arcing trajectory of shots. If you haven't noticed the rounds shoot a lot straighter. This makes it bounds easier to get kills with it now and probably warranted the blast radius nerf. But, I would prefer the older trajectory and get some, if not the majority of the blast radius back. As a logistics, I mainly used the MD as a support weapon to give covering fire for flanking scouts and slower heavies to close in on the enemy, pin down or contain enemies, and push them back so I could raise a downed teammate. In its current state all of those tactical and utility uses are gone. Sure, I can get more consistent kills with it, but the AR does that job better.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3798	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:52:00 - [11] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. NO The MD did less damage per second than the AR even if all the grenades were direct hits (I did the math). The mass driver also contained less damage per magazine, meaning you could kill less people than the AR before needing to reload. There is also the fact that its almost useless at longer ranges because of the grenade arc which makes aiming require more skill, and the slowly traveling rounds which makes predicting where your targets will be. The only thing it had going for it was the splash damage and splash radius which made it very balanced; now splash radius sucks. If anything is easy mode (not necessarily overpowered though) it is the AR.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 394	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:52:00 - [12] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: The MD has never been easy mode. It is, in fact, one of the most difficult to use handheld weapons. I wouldn't so much say that it is one of the MOST difficult weapons to use, but it is by far the easiest. Using it last build, I could rarely put rounds on target Did I mention I was bad with it?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 141	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:55:00 - [13] - Quote During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 393	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:57:00 - [14] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The MD has never been easy mode. It is, in fact, one of the most difficult to use handheld weapons. I wouldn't so much say that it is one of the MOST difficult weapons to use, but it is by far the easiest. Using it last build, I could rarely put rounds on target Did I mention I was bad with it? You seem to be missing some words, but I think I understand your meaning. There are /were only 2 other weapons /roles more difficult weapons for anti infantry, barring trying to use sidearms as primary. These are - the forge gun anti infantry, and being a tactical sniper, that is a sniper who runs in the battle, not an overwatch sniper.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 393	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:01:00 - [15] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:02:00 - [16] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. Disagree Recon. As an exclusive MD user last build. The MD is designed to be a suppression weapon and that radius was needed. Now one can argue that the base plus the operation skill made it a bit too large no longer requiring even the simplest bit of aiming. That said in CB the MD wasnt the offensive juggernaut that it is in pubs. I used a Freedom with prof 3 and 2dmg mods and it really couldnt get kills agaisnt protobears. But it was just right enough for suppression. Its arch now being smaller makes it a more direct attack weapon in which it isnt all that effective. It really needs its arch so it can server its real purpose in organized manners. A high perch mortar like suppression weapon which it did well but not exceedingly well in CB's. Pub data is not a good measure of MD activity because most ppl ran adv or lower gear and mostly shield tanked so once shields were gone(or eaten up using stacked dmg mods) kills were very easy to come by. THE final and most important point is that with FF in PC the large radius is as much a liability as it is an assest. Those who play the weapon sloppily will simply end up killing their own teammates. Now i can agree with you that because of its splash levels people rarely used the assault or breach varaints. but in truth the assualt variant wasnt an issue of radius but a insignifcant level of dmg, it simply wasnt enough of a factor to force people to take cover. I havent looked at the uprising levels but if they followed a similar model where the radius was larger at the cost of splash dmg then it will still be worthless. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, I 100% agree with you. No trolling, you're absolutely correct.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 642	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:03:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. NO The MD did less damage per second than the AR even if all the grenades were direct hits (I did the math). The mass driver also contained less damage per magazine, meaning you could kill less people than the AR before needing to reload. There is also the fact that its almost useless at longer ranges because of the grenade arc which makes aiming require more skill, and the slowly traveling rounds which makes predicting where your targets will be. The only thing it had going for it was the splash damage and splash radius which made it very balanced; now splash radius sucks. If anything is easy mode (not necessarily overpowered though) it is the AR. The MD, like almost every other weapon, has optimal conditions where it thrives. Height advantage, clustered enemies, enemies focused on something else. This, unlike the AR, means you can't simply calculate effectiveness based on raw DPS. Factor in disorientation caused by smoke. Factor in splash damage, the potential for a user to have flux grenades multiplied by the average accuracy of the flux grenade hits, factor in the inaccuracy of the AR user, etc. etc. The MD is still powerful. My KD is steadily rising despite horrible games where it goes as low as 0.4 and I exclusively use the EXO-5, and I still manage to resupply and repair my teammates. No proficiency in MDs yet either.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 642	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:08:00 - [18] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Not sure when we got into a discussion of what's 'easy mode' and what isn't. Here I thought I was discussing reasons as to how the MD should be tweaked to be more effective in its supporting role. The AR doesn't damage diversity. It has no true weakness, but that is its only strength. Find yourself facing a shotgun around the corner? Nothing you can do about it. HMG mowing you down 5 meters away? MD on the roof? Laser rifle or sniper on the hill at their optimal ranges? In another weapon's optimal situation the AR is out of its league. The very diversity of the weapons defies comparison.
Joey-Number1 Maniacal Miners INC The Omega Industries 43	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:13:00 - [19] - Quote Besides the blast radius I seem to have no problems with it, now you need to be more precise thats right but you still can pretty well shoot on any range, from close to far medium range.. you just need to figure out the trajectory of the round. I reckon that the trajectory has been improved from the previous build and now flies more correctly so you need to adjust your aiming to that after this change. Then I agree with you on all those other things like Nanohives nerf, thats been pretty bad and other things, then now we have been updated with the 10% dmg to all weapons. Well this made again much more worth while. And I am pretty happy with it again.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 393	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:13:00 - [20] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Buster Friently wrote: You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Not sure when we got into a discussion of what's 'easy mode' and what isn't. Here I thought I was discussing reasons as to how the MD should be tweaked to be more effective in its supporting role. The AR doesn't damage diversity. It has no true weakness, but that is its only strength. Find yourself facing a shotgun around the corner? Nothing you can do about it. HMG mowing you down 5 meters away? MD on the roof? Laser rifle or sniper on the hill at their optimal ranges? In another weapon's optimal situation the AR is out of its league. The very diversity of the weapons defies comparison. My quote was of Recon, not you. And the AR most definitely damages diversity.

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:14:00 - [21] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. NO The MD did less damage per second than the AR even if all the grenades were direct hits (I did the math). The mass driver also contained less damage per magazine, meaning you could kill less people than the AR before needing to reload. There is also the fact that its almost useless at longer ranges because of the grenade arc which makes aiming require more skill, and the slowly traveling rounds which makes predicting where your targets will be. The only thing it had going for it was the splash damage and splash radius which made it very balanced; now splash radius sucks. If anything is easy mode (not necessarily overpowered though) it is the AR. The MD, like almost every other weapon, has optimal conditions where it thrives. Height advantage, clustered enemies, enemies focused on something else. This, unlike the AR, means you can't simply calculate effectiveness based on raw DPS. Factor in disorientation caused by smoke. Factor in splash damage, the potential for a user to have flux grenades multiplied by the average accuracy of the flux grenade hits, factor in the inaccuracy of the AR user, etc. etc. The MD is still powerful. My KD is steadily rising despite horrible games where it goes as low as 0.4 and I exclusively use the EXO-5, and I still manage to resupply and repair my teammates. No proficiency in MDs yet either. Most of that could be attributed to all the ninja changes they made to it. Compared to Chrome, the shots fire in a more linear trajectory when they used to arc. Not sure about the speed either, but it does feel like the rounds fire faster but I digress. Before, you required a lot of trajectory prediction and you literally had to arc the weapon upward several degrees more than now to make sure that round landed in the general vicinity of your target. This made it a skill weapon where it was easy to pick up, but had a high skill ceiling. Back in Chrome if you died to a MD user on a consistent basis, you knew they were good with it. Now, just about anyone can pick it up and be a master of it in exchange for the tactical and utility that made combat exciting for people on both sides of the weapon. I know a lot of scouts right now voicing the dismay of the lack of those awkward CQC battles with a MD user that usually ended with both of them trading blows with only one of them getting a kill assist. But the bottom line is they turned a support weapon into a slayer weapon when it shouldn't be.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 142	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:14:00 - [22] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Why should I care about a long rant of yours defining what OP is? And how does everyone using a weapon make it easy mode? Most people use AR because it is familiar to them. Easy mode was heating a Viziam and then passing it over someone for a split second and instamelting them. Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). Easy mode is Swarms that auto track their target. Easy mode is using Scouts maxed with speed mods because you know the games hit detection sucks. I could keep going, but Id rather not. AR is actually less easy mode than most of these weapons. You have to stay on target for every single shot in order to get a kill. This is definitely not true for especially the MD. Oh, you aimed a little to the left too much? Oh well, splash damage! Get over yourselves, the MD is now a lot more balanced than it was in Chromosome. Stop freakin crying.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 297	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:15:00 - [23] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. Disagree Recon. As an exclusive MD user last build. The MD is designed to be a suppression weapon and that radius was needed. Now one can argue that the base plus the operation skill made it a bit too large no longer requiring even the simplest bit of aiming. That said in CB the MD wasnt the offensive juggernaut that it is in pubs. I used a Freedom with prof 3 and 2dmg mods and it really couldnt get kills agaisnt protobears. But it was just right enough for suppression. Its arch now being smaller makes it a more direct attack weapon in which it isnt all that effective. It really needs its arch so it can server its real purpose in organized manners. A high perch mortar like suppression weapon which it did well but not exceedingly well in CB's. Pub data is not a good measure of MD activity because most ppl ran adv or lower gear and mostly shield tanked so once shields were gone(or eaten up using stacked dmg mods) kills were very easy to come by. THE final and most important point is that with FF in PC the large radius is as much a liability as it is an assest. Those who play the weapon sloppily will simply end up killing their own teammates. Now i can agree with you that because of its splash levels people rarely used the assault or breach varaints. but in truth the assualt variant wasnt an issue of radius but a insignifcant level of dmg, it simply wasnt enough of a factor to force people to take cover. I havent looked at the uprising levels but if they followed a similar model where the radius was larger at the cost of splash dmg then it will still be worthless. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, I 100% agree with you. No trolling, you're absolutely correct. Seriously the apocalypse is coming cause ppl have been agreeing with the most hated of IMPS this week. Someone actually agreed with Proto in another thread. I think we have ventured into Bizzaro forums.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:17:00 - [24] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Why should I care about a long rant of yours defining what OP is? And how does everyone using a weapon make it easy mode? Most people use AR because it is familiar to them. Easy mode was heating a Viziam and then passing it over someone for a split second and instamelting them. Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). Easy mode is Swarms that auto track their target. Easy mode is using Scouts maxed with speed mods because you know the games hit detection sucks. I could keep going, but Id rather not. AR is actually less easy mode than most of these weapons. You have to stay on target for every single shot in order to get a kill. This is definitely not true for especially the MD. Oh, you aimed a little to the left too much? Oh well, splash damage! Get over yourselves, the MD is now a lot more balanced than it was in Chromosome. Stop freakin crying. Serious question: Did you actually use the MD back in Chrome?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 393	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:17:00 - [25] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Why should I care about a long rant of yours defining what OP is? And how does everyone using a weapon make it easy mode? Most people use AR because it is familiar to them. Easy mode was heating a Viziam and then passing it over someone for a split second and instamelting them. Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). Easy mode is Swarms that auto track their target. Easy mode is using Scouts maxed with speed mods because you know the games hit detection sucks. I could keep going, but Id rather not. AR is actually less easy mode than most of these weapons. You have to stay on target for every single shot in order to get a kill. This is definitely not true for especially the MD. Oh, you aimed a little to the left too much? Oh well, splash damage! Get over yourselves, the MD is now a lot more balanced than it was in Chromosome. Stop freakin crying. lol. You're the one crying about how hard the poor ittle AR users have it. Lol. Enough said.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:18:00 - [26] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Cosgar wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Get over it, MDs were easy mode and everyone that used one enough to get used to how to shot it knows it. Splash damage was way too big. If you don't like the splash of the base variant use the assault. Otherwise, once again, get over it. Disagree Recon. As an exclusive MD user last build. The MD is designed to be a suppression weapon and that radius was needed. Now one can argue that the base plus the operation skill made it a bit too large no longer requiring even the simplest bit of aiming. That said in CB the MD wasnt the offensive juggernaut that it is in pubs. I used a Freedom with prof 3 and 2dmg mods and it really couldnt get kills agaisnt protobears. But it was just right enough for suppression. Its arch now being smaller makes it a more direct attack weapon in which it isnt all that effective. It really needs its arch so it can server its real purpose in organized manners. A high perch mortar like suppression weapon which it did well but not exceedingly well in CB's. Pub data is not a good measure of MD activity because most ppl ran adv or lower gear and mostly shield tanked so once shields were gone(or eaten up using stacked dmg mods) kills were very easy to come by. THE final and most important point is that with FF in PC the large radius is as much a liability as it is an assest. Those who play the weapon sloppily will simply end up killing their own teammates. Now i can agree with you that because of its splash levels people rarely used the assault or breach varaints. but in truth the assualt variant wasnt an issue of radius but a insignifcant level of dmg, it simply wasnt enough of a factor to force people to take cover. I havent looked at the uprising levels but if they followed a similar model where the radius was larger at the cost of splash dmg then it will still be worthless. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, I 100% agree with you. No trolling, you're absolutely correct. Seriously the apocalypse is coming cause ppl have been agreeing with the most hated of IMPS this week. Someone actually agreed with Proto in another thread. I think we have ventured into Bizzaro forums. It's more of a sign that CCP ****ed up.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 639	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:19:00 - [27] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: During Chromosome I played on a alt with 1.5 million SP that used a STD Assault MD and consistently tore people up. So please, dont go there with that "you obviously havent played with it" BS. It was super easy mode. Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Why should I care about a long rant of yours defining what OP is? And how does everyone using a weapon make it easy mode? Most people use AR because it is familiar to them. Easy mode was heating a Viziam and then passing it over someone for a split second and instamelting them. Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). Easy mode is Swarms that auto track their target. Easy mode is using Scouts maxed with speed mods because you know the games hit detection sucks. I could keep going, but Id rather not. AR is actually less easy mode than most of these weapons. You have to stay on target for every single shot in order to get a kill. This is definitely not true for especially the MD. Oh, you aimed a little to the left too much? Oh well, splash damage! Get over yourselves, the MD is now a lot more balanced than it was in Chromosome. Stop freakin crying. lol. You're the one crying about how hard the poor ittle AR users have it. Lol. Enough said. The can't have it that bad when all I see is ARs in uprising.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 199	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:26:00 - [28] - Quote As a Heavy user who helped wage the numbers campaign to make CCP see the error of their ways: I feel ya brother. The players I affectionately refer to as "Massholes" were the bane of my heavy existence in the last build. Even as a nerfed HMG heavy at the start of uprising, it felt like Mass Drivers didn't have the teeth I used to remember them having. From what I'm reading, MDs are something like a smaller Forge Gun now (you need perfect aim to get a brutal kill), when instead it should be the support area denial weapon others have referred to in this thread. Hope they look into it for you guys.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 142	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:33:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Buster Friently wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The only problem with the MD at the moment is that I can't support with it. I'm getting kills up to something like 14 a game and when I land a flux on a target they're almost guaranteed a death. Thing is, I don't want this. I want to support with the MD. Damage should be severely brought down in exchange for larger splash radius'. There should be weapons that are geared towards team support in this game. The change to MDs have turned them from that tool of support into a weapon that can be used by someone playing solo. This shouldn't be the case! MDs should rely on there being some HMGs or ARs to sweep up the chaos you create with your rounds. I could actually get behind this. If the splash goes up, the damage needs to go down. You obviously don't really know what you're talking about, but I'm not surprised. Easy mode? AR. Proof? The vast number of people playing it. Please take note of this : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75585&find=unread Why should I care about a long rant of yours defining what OP is? And how does everyone using a weapon make it easy mode? Most people use AR because it is familiar to them. Easy mode was heating a Viziam and then passing it over someone for a split second and instamelting them. Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). Easy mode is Swarms that auto track their target. Easy mode is using Scouts maxed with speed mods because you know the games hit detection sucks. I could keep going, but Id rather not. AR is actually less easy mode than most of these weapons. You have to stay on target for every single shot in order to get a kill. This is definitely not true for especially the MD. Oh, you aimed a little to the left too much? Oh well, splash damage! Get over yourselves, the MD is now a lot more balanced than it was in Chromosome. Stop freakin crying. lol. You're the one crying about how hard the poor ittle AR users have it. Lol. Enough said. The can't have it that bad when all I see is ARs in uprising.[/quote] I don't even like the AR! The lolTac is so OP its freakin ridiculous! I haven't said anything about how hard AR users have it. They can kiss my ass too, the AR is the most boring weapon in this game. But the fact remains that in Chromosome the MD was super easy mode. And no Cos, Im just makin it all up. I never actually played with the MD
Thog A Kuma Planetary Response Organisation 86	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:12:00 - [30] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Easy mode was throwing MD rounds at their feet WHILE KNOCKING THEIR AIM OFF WITH THE ROUND (something you MD users like to not mention). If the MD user's target was more than 1 second flight time away any full speed movement would clear you from their blast radius. If you choose to go toe to toe with an MD that already has your range and elevation figured out you have made an error in Chromosome. Now if you are a half second away any full speed movement clears you. If the MD was easy you would find it dominating the leaderboards (this is one reason I would kill to see its actual usage data(this kind of data exists for dust)) The Dust playerbase is not so honorable that they would eschew a weapon because it was easy and it increased their kills too much, they have demonstrated exactly the opposite behavior. The citation of a couple situations that an MD will preform well is easy. Actually using an MD across varying terrain over the course of 5-10 minutes of a game where you need to reload where you run into people near and far across cover and out in the open is an entirely different matter. Even still, RECON BY FIRe, that isn't the point... What does CCP Think the MD's role is? Most MD users believe the MD is a support weapon used to disrupt the enemy. Maybe we are wrong. If that is the MD's real role, does CCP believe it can fill that role now? I don't believe it can, maybe I am wrong. I think what MD users would like is some kind of answer about what CCP expects from us. I don't think anyone in the MD community wants to rehash arguments about situations where a grenade or grenade launchers are unsurprisingly good.



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