I would rather see damage fall off be more progressive rather than all weapons having the same range.

HMG should not be able to fire with that ROF at an ARs optimal and still do more DPS

AR should not be able to out DPS an LR in a LR's optimal but the AR rounds also shouldn't just stop making impact all together.


Despite the range NERF to all weapons the AR is still the most viable weapon....now it's just used in a stampede. A few guys might get picked off in the herd rush by ranged weapons but once the pile of AR clones gets within 65 meters, it's a done deal. They mow down heavies before they get near the 20m heavy optimal. Weapons like the LR and TAR only have about a 20m windown to take down the AR heard before their range advantage is rendered useless.


More progressive falloff is needed or a blanket buff to all effective weapon ranges. Being able to sight up an enemy with iron sights or Doom mode plain as day and not being able to do ANY damage at all is pretty game breaking, IMO.

you should add bullet spread as one of your factors

long range: low spread
assault: medium spread
HMG/smg: high spread

Skill with Long Range Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim

Skill with Heavy Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim

Skill with Assault Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim

I think this should only be the case with solid projectile weapons (IE Rail, and ballistic... Specifically caldari and minmatar) weapons.

Blasters, like the gallente AR have projectiles that dissipate after a "short" distance. that would explain magically disappearing rounds. Lasers (and scrambler rounds, since they are lasers too) should have a dissipation of light after a certain range.

That said, I don't think *any* round should go on "forever" (or even to the end of the map). They should go until their falloff damage ceases, then just disappear. It makes no sense for a projectile to continue when it's not going to do any damage to anything it hits. The moment it stops doing damage, is the moment it should "disappear".

And seeing as this is a video game, we shouldn't have anything but high-powered rifles (railguns, and long-range rifles) that can shoot past a few hundred meters.

Any other weapon that uses "solid projectiles" should have their damage scaled to their weapon type, and moreover, the average size of the map.

We haven't seen the caldari anti-infantry heavy weapon yet. What if it totally trumps the HMG in range? Certainly we are many months away, if not more, from seeing heavy gun variants. but so far it's sounding like caldari weapons are going to be the ones you want to use if you want range, but at the sacrifice of a bit of power.

Overall, dis, I agree something needs to be done, but I don't want to go back to the ranges in chromosome.

Honeslty, I think the ranges in Uprising are fine, WITH THE EXCEPTION of the HMG. They shouldn't have shortened the HMG's base range from chromosome. damage? whatever, easy enough to overcome with damage mods. but range for the HMG.. now that you can't improve it, needs to be looked at.

Bullet spread is determined by the amount of kick.

I do not endorse random bullets spread.

oh, okay, i miss understood. i thought by kick you were referring to vertical movement. if you're factoring in horizontal walk as well I'm all for it.

I really like the discussion on this thread. Something needs to be done about range. The following are my suggestions.

* I like the idea of longer range and more cover

* All weapons subject to sway and movement penalties

* All weapons should be differentiated by racial mechanics

Caldari: Short- and long-range missiles, and long-range charged projectiles (hybrid)

Gallente: Short-range charged projectiles (hybrid), and drones

Minmatar: Short- and long-range projectiles, and missiles.

Amarr: Short- and long-range lasers and drones.


Missiles (i.e. Self propelled explosives) - limited fuel capacity dictates range, but has self-guidance capabilities. Long-range missiles have more fuel, less warhead charge. Rockets: short-range missiles that have less fuel, more warhead charge. Overall low capacity magazines due to increased ammo size/weight.

Projectiles - Bullet distance determined by initial charge. Trajectory determined by the ratio of mass to accelerate. Autocannon: Short-range projectiles that have a high rate of fire, high capacity (small projectiles), low recoil (due to small bullet/accelerant) and flatter trajectory but less range due to lower charge. Artillery: long-range projectiles that have a low rate of fire (due to high recoil and longer feed times), lower capacity, high damage and more curved trajectory but travels long ranges.

Hybrid GÇô Physical projectile charged with plasma, dissipates energy with distance but has greater terminal effect. Blasters: short range hybrids that overcharge the projectile with plasma; they hit very hard, but the physical projectile burns up sooner due to higher plasma charge. Average recoil, average capacity, and average rate of fire. Railguns: Long-range projectiles that have a smaller plasma charge but do not burn up over range. High recoil due to larger charge and larger mass, average capacity, average rate of fire

Laser - Air molecules distort energy beam over distance. Beam laser: highly focused beam laser that has longer range, but less energy to accommodate more sensitive focusing elements. Long range, no recoil, and low damage, subject to heat buildup. Pulse lasers: short-range lasers forgo tight focusing elements for raw damage. They deal high damage, have no recoil, but energy disperses quickly, subject to heat buildup.

Drones GÇô Semi-antonymous machines capable of inflicting a wide array of damage types. Subject to the limitations of the racial weapon it employs and will only work within a limited distance of the operator.

* * All weapons are subject to environmental conditions such as friction, gravity, energy dispersion etc. As such, all weapons have a falloff distance at which they no longer possess the terminal energy necessary to damage a dropsuitGÇÖs shields or armor. At extreme ranges, projectiles may impact the target, but the shields and armor are able to absorb the damage within their operating parameters. Only when the projectile contains more energy that the shield or armor is actively able to absorb will damage to the shield or armor occur.

These are my ideas for overcoming the current problems with range in DUST

Glad you picked up on a topic that has been a full throated roar for six months.

I've seen a couple of mentions about trajectory (aka bullet drop). Something people need to know/remember is that matches are not hosted on anyone's single console like other FPS games that can be mentioned. Everything is processed on CCP's server bay. To code in trajectory and travel time for small high ROF projectile weapons, and expect the system to track every bullet fired, would put a huge amount of stress on the servers even with only a couple of thousand players. That's why CCP only has travel time for large rail turrets and forge guns and not trajectory. Only grenade based weapons have both. Missiles and rockets are their own beasties.

It's funny that you brought this up, because I'm currently in a chat with some corp mates explaining further what I'm talking about....and this is not what I mean.

I'm talking about an effective damage reduction over range for each weapon, but no hard falloff. We're all basically within sight of every other player, after all.

We already have damage and range in the game. This is merely an increase in the factors.

It's not about Eve, a spreadsheet vs. spreadsheet of potentials in each shot. The target in DUST is either there or he is not. What damage is delivered should depend on the weapon and the player.

Whether the shot gets there or not should depend on the shooter and the gun. A sniper rifle should hit far and on the money every shot. An HMG should only get a few of the hundreds of rounds on target. But in both, the rounds should reach.

They should not vanish, with zero damage.

My point was just aimed at the "Projectile Trajectory" aspects. I agree with you for the most part, but I have no problems with rounds piffling after they reach max effective range. I just think the max effective ranges should be more reasonable, if not more realistic, with the projectile (Projectile/Artillery) and missile weapons, and then adjust the energy (Laser) and hybrid (Blaster/Rail) weapons accordingly. Yes, there's be tears from the Anti-realistic CQC fans, but they'd still get in and make their kills if they play smart.

One of the things I have noticed people shuddering at when uncapped weapon ranges get brought up is "OMG! The HMG shouldn't even..." What these people forget is that though the HMG may reach the distance of a sniper in the hills, the bullet dispersion would be so high that it would be down to blind luck for the sniper to get hit by a single round. If this isn't an example of one of the points you're tying to make, my apologizes for misunderstanding.

Agreed... while disappearing bullets is probably required in order to keep the servers from dying... the range on all weapons needs to be increased substantially.

When I can see a person in front of me clear as day, and I aim and fire at him and don't do a single point of damage... wtf!? This is not good game mechanics... period.

Also.. its very clear the maps were built for SS5-SSPro3 ranges... there is minimal cover and most everything is relatively long range. Yet the bullets just somehow can't make it? Its terrible and it makes the gameplay feel clunky and unintuitive. I am growing increasingly frustrated about it as well, and I am sure i'm not the only one.

Few things that need to be done.

All maps need to be reworked to add more cover, the amount of cover that was added when Shiigeru, or whatever the hell that titan's name was, crashed helped a ton. Add more cover to the outside areas so we can move around and not get picked off immediately.

Remove the reduction to dispersion when you crouch and ADS. Its not realistic and its a large part of the issue here.

Increase max range of most weapons to about 150m for most medium range weps, 80-100m for the HMG, and 20-30m for the shotgun. Bullets should disappear outside or near the edge of the render view, so they appear to go on forever without actually doing so.

Linear damage drop off to ~60% at max range. Allow bullet dispersion to reduce damage at long ranges, not hard coding. The HMG and AR will probably be really balanced just due to bullet dispersion. Laz0rs are the one exception to this, since they have no dispersion, at which point you will need to hardcode weapon damage at all ranges.

I will say, when I can't hit someone from across the street with my AR, something is grossly wrong. I can throw grenades farther than I can shoot, and its ridiculous.

This should be of CRITICAL priority CCP. This mechanic is gamebreaking, and it will drive away players in droves if not addressed quickly.

All maps need to be reworked to add more cover, the amount of cover that was added when Shiigeru, or whatever the hell that titan's name was, crashed helped a ton. Add more cover to the outside areas so we can move around and not get picked off immediately.

Linear damage drop off to ~60% at max range. Allow bullet dispersion to reduce damage at long ranges, not hard coding. The HMG and AR will probably be really balanced just due to bullet dispersion. Laz0rs are the one exception to this, since they have no dispersion, at which point you will need to hardcode weapon damage at all ranges.

I will say, when I can't hit someone from across the street with my AR, something is grossly wrong. I can throw grenades farther than I can shoot, and its ridiculous.

I like what you're trying to do here, in tying the Eve-scape in to DUST.

One thing though, and you didn't say this wasn't the case, but I feel it's important to mention in order to finally jettison hard range as a class definition: All weapons need to be able to contact all enemies...even if they do minuscule damage at long range.

In Eve, our scale is enormous. You're in a cruiser that's 200 meters long, orbiting another 200m cruiser at 35km. It makes sense at these ranges to have some weapons that just don't even reach.

But, on a field where I can see someone running around from a few meters away....dif story.

Thank you very much for the excellent response.

The maximum practical range of all small arms and especially high-powered sniper rifles depends mainly on the aerodynamic or ballistic efficiency of the spin stabilised projectiles used. Long-range shooters must also collect relevant information to calculate elevation and windage corrections to be able to achieve first shot strikes at point targets. The data to calculate these fire control corrections has a long list of variables including:

ballistic coefficient of the bullets used
height of the sighting components above the rifle bore axis
the zero range at which the sighting components and rifle combination were sighted in
bullet weight
actual muzzle velocity (powder temperature affects muzzle velocity, primer ignition is also temperature dependent)
range to target
supersonic range of the employed gun, cartridge and bullet combination
inclination angle in case of uphill/downhill firing
target speed and direction
wind speed and direction (main cause for horizontal projectile deflection and generally the hardest ballistic variable to measure and judge correctly. Wind effects can also cause vertical deflection.)
air temperature, pressure, altitude and humidity variations (these make up the ambient air density)
Earth's gravity (changes slightly with latitude and altitude)
gyroscopic drift (horizontal and vertical plane gyroscopic effect GÇö often known as spin drift - induced by the barrels twist direction and twist rate)
Coriolis effect drift (latitude, direction of fire and northern or southern hemisphere data dictate this effect)
E+¦tv+¦s effect (interrelated with the Coriolis effect, latitude and direction of fire dictate this effect)
lateral throw-off (dispersion that is caused by mass imbalance in the applied projectile)
aerodynamic jump (dispersion that is caused by lateral (wind) impulses activated during free flight at or very near the muzzle)
the inherent potential accuracy and adjustment range of the sighting components
the inherent potential accuracy of the rifle
the inherent potential accuracy of the ammunition
the inherent potential accuracy of the computer program and other firing control components used to calculate the trajectory

The ambient air density is at its maximum at Arctic sea level conditions. Cold gunpowder also produces lower pressures and hence lower muzzle velocities than warm powder. This means that the maximum practical range of rifles will be at it shortest at Arctic sea level conditions.

The ability to hit a point target at great range has a lot to do with the ability to tackle environmental and meteorological factors and a good understanding of exterior ballistics and the limitations of equipment. Without (computer) support and highly accurate laser rangefinders and meteorological measuring equipment as aids to determine ballistic solutions, long-range shooting beyond 1000 m (1100 yd) at unknown ranges becomes guesswork for even the most expert long-range marksmen.

I've seen a couple of mentions about trajectory (aka bullet drop). Something people need to know/remember is that matches are not hosted on anyone's single console like other FPS games that can be mentioned. Everything is processed on CCP's server bay. To code in trajectory and travel time for small high ROF projectile weapons, and expect the system to track every bullet fired, would put a huge amount of stress on the servers even with only a couple of thousand players. That's why CCP only has travel time for large rail turrets and forge guns and not trajectory. Only grenade based weapons have both. Missiles and rockets are their own beasties.

Forge guns were great for anti infantry last build, just took practice. I haven't been able to finish patch 3.04 so haven't tested any of the new changes.

Dis Cord you are my favorite person ever.

You can be my overly gimped wingfatman any day.

Plasma weapons would not extend across the map. AR, plasma cannon, shotgun, blaster should have hard range cap, but do more damage then projectile.

Explosive weapons and missiles often in real life have a timed self destruct that sets the max range, swarms do this now.

Projectile weapons would realistically work as you say, but smg and hmg would then be resource hog on system, particularly if bullet drop was calculated.

Very fast projectiles like railgun slugs (forge and sniper) can run out of momentum before they run out of energy and airbust. This would take longer then our maps would allow, this is what makes some meteors explode mid-air.

High energy laser turn the air opaque from blooming the air to plasma, there are also focus issues since way to extend range is two use multiple lower energy laser converged on target. This would make laser weapons work closer to ingame laser rifle then a laser pointer. CCP did well here just counter intuitive.

That said, last build had better range then now. Just put ranges back to last build without sharpshooter.

How do other console shooters handle this problem? I assume they experience the same limitations.

I think other FPS games get around these limitations by creating a optimal range, a falloff range and a no damage range. Within optimal the bullet does full damage, in falloff range the bullet does reduced damage, and no damage range is the point where the projectile deviation from the intended path would be so great that the game automatically discounts the bullet and it "disappears"

Other games can have realistic physics tracking by hosting their matches on one of the participants consoles so, for each match, there's a console dedicated to all the game mechanics for only those involved in that match which is why lag switches (One reason I don't play CoD anymore.) work for the console that's hosting to give the owner an advantage over other players in that match.

Dust is hosted by CCP's server bays so physics tracking every projectile of even a thousand or so players would put a considerable load on the system. A 1000+ ship battle in Eve can affect all the systems on a shard, imagine what it would do if the system also had to real time physics track a few million "bullets" on top of missiles, mass drivers, rockets, drones, LAVs, HAVs, Drop Ships, market transactions, corp communications, trading, giving, contracts, ships, jump-gates, player owned stations, planetary interaction, skill point gains and expenditures, bounties, kill rights, aggression timers, targeting, module activations and deactivations, warps, every ship in Eve, drones, NPCs, missions, the list goes on. But it's all on CCP's servers. None of it is hosted on our consoles.

Did you play MAG? Ranges were no problem in MAG, and that was on a central server.

This is a matter of class differentiation, not a hard wiring problem.

I'm not talking about range, I'm talking about physics tracking, AKA tracking bullet drop/travel time. Range isn't really the issue to handling this as any game could have unlimited range. In Dust, if CCP wanted, they could make an infinite ammo continuous fire pistol with pin point accuracy over unlimited distance.

I'm all for falloff damage over staged ranges with the round disappearing after it becomes ineffective. I'm not for playing a game where combat can affect whole player corporations, alliances, and possibly sovereignty and it's all low end tactics happening at less than airsoft ranges.

I'm not talking about range, I'm talking about physics tracking, AKA tracking bullet drop/travel time. Range isn't really the issue to handling this as any game could have unlimited range. In Dust, if CCP wanted, they could make an infinite ammo continuous fire pistol with pin point accuracy over unlimited distance.

I'm all for falloff damage over staged ranges with the round disappearing after it becomes ineffective. I'm not for playing a game where combat can affect whole player corporations, alliances, and possibly sovereignty and it's all low end tactics happening at less than airsoft ranges.

But unless there's physics tracking, no bullet in Dust will ever hit the ground unless the firing angle will put it there.

We would still need extended range damage fall off to account for loss of inertia on projectile and rail weapons and energy dispersion for laser and blaster weapons. Weapon handling does/did affect some weapons more than others. I can site lots of experience dealing with the bullet dispersion at range and increasing barrel climb of the HMG during extended firing.

Ace Starburst likes this suggestion and would enjoy testing it out.

Again, I cite MAG. This was never a problem, and it was on a central server.

What's the difference?

The difference again is that there's a lot more happening on CCP servers than MAG servers.

Once again... Missiles, mass drivers, rockets, drones, LAVs, HAVs, Drop Ships, market transactions, corp communications, trading, giving, contracts, ships, jump-gates, player owned stations, planetary interaction, skill point gains and expenditures, bounties, kill rights, aggression timers, targeting, module activations and deactivations, warps, every ship in Eve, drones, NPCs, missions, the list goes on.

This supports my point, lol. CCP is in a far better position to do this for DUST.

Actually it doesn't.

the more i play the more i realize the raping done to the HMG i would like to see them fix the HMG and give it proper damage or give my sp back so i can go with the op AR........ i am tired of being killed by the ARs when i am using a gastons HMG i shoot and they turn and kill me in 2 secs and i have over 1200 shields and armor so fix it or im done do we have to by you guys a year supply of beer or anything to get you all to do something beside boost the AR and nerf all other weapons with the advance of tech in dust universe your telling me a HMG is a useless weapon call it a BBMG bb mechine gun is more to wut is is now you have no idea how much i used to love this game but all i do now is wish some one crash the severs permanently you f u c k i n g wrecked a good game by favoring the AR are you all drunk and one who says the game isnt messed up is a AR user or just realy stupid all the heaveis i have talked to all say you truely must have no idea about how weapons work and that is the best they say i could tell what else they say about your idea of the HMG but all the AR users will whine saying no they are over powered but look at the AR so just keep up what your doing and you will loss alot of players and if ppl think i am mad yes i am you ****** this game up go ahead bAND MY DUST ACCOUNT CUZ YOUR ALL FUCKTARDS AND NEED A WAKE UP CALL if they raped a hmg and the logis whats next as soobn as there are enough ppl crying lower the AR damage they will be all to willing to nerf the AR but if they use ARs they might just boost them more they being the makers so i say a big salut to the fail and lose of players ty from very pissed and if any one wants to troll what i say just ask for my address and ill give it so you can come visit

I want to show my support for this thread, I feel that it's very important for Dust's longevity that range sees a sensible increase to at least 120-200m.

Completely agree with OP, ranges of weapons in Dust are a joke.

A good example of damage drop of at range in BF3 can be found at http://symthic.com/bf3-weapon-charts
All projectiles in BF3 are physical objects subject to gravity and have different muzzle velocities.

I see no reason why Dust can't implement a similar system, would be a huge improvement in gunplay over the current system.

In between the Black Screens of Death that we are now experiencing after the update, I was able to play with the HMG and the damage boost is exactly what it needed.

With the AR being powerful from distance, we can't just post up from distance and expect to tag enemies. The damage up close is respectable now. I was able to join 2/3 Ambush matches (never played before with the HMG, but the skirmish was not working for me under the "automatic" server) and came out 4/4 and 8/4 after i had adjusted my sensitivity.

i get that we are use to more, but when i worked with an attack team, i was able to provide close cover for them several times. Playing solo will get you killed now, which i can respect, but as a rush weapon for crowd control, it does its job with an attack group and heavy power. I've only experienced this in Ambush, due to server malfunction now, but i figure it will do great in area denial in skirmish.

At this point i feel that it is really more of how the Heavy user plays rather then the HMG, and we want that with all the guns right?

No. I want things defined correctly and people to build roles around that. What you just said means the role will change constantly with the whims of the player.

The current build, and the elation some are feeling, is more like this.

You said that a centralized server was incapable of supporting things like bullet falloff.

Then you went on to say how CCP's servers deal with all those other calcs already anyway.

CCP deals with falloff constantly....in Eve.

I didn't say it was incapable, I said it would put an unreasonable amount of stress on the server bay potentially causing issues for the whole shard.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. It would be illogical for 2 reasons:

1) Other games using central servers make these calcs.
2) CCP already makes these calcs on the very server we're using.

Anything either of us say to this point is moot really. We can only cite other examples as evidence until CCP responds.

I don't expect them to respond because their concept of range (from their other responses to game problems) is so fundamentally wrong it's going to take a Gnostic experience for them to wake up.

1. And those console games, like MAG, only do very limited scope battles on their servers.

2. As far as I know it's just missiles, mass drivers, grenades, and railguns as far as Dust is concerned.

It's not impossible, just improbable that CCP will have any type of Gnostic experience relating to Dust.

Sorry Dis Cord. Had to chop out quotes so it would let me reply.

Though MAG was 128 vs 128, MAG servers still only had to track a very small number of things in comparison to CCP servers.

In Eve they handle large loads on the servers, such as 500+ ship fleet battles, by putting them on a reinforced server. Even then, the players still can cause the time dilation mechanic to kick in. Imagine if TD was applied to Dust and, under massive shard load, everything slowed down to half speed. There would be rivers of tears.

Most of the weapons are hit scan, but a few aren't.

Disagree

New range make game more interesting. No more rooftopers, no snipers far away in red zone.

Infantry playing now is very interesting, coz it not "far-away-head-glitch-shooting" and no permanent camping.

Range need no more changes, its perfect now.

there's still campers, rooftoppers and glitchers, they've simply found different places on the maps to hide...
nothing has changed in that respect.
HMGs are screwed, there's not one projectile weapon in the game except maybe a shotgun that can't out-range the HMG and even shotties in scout suits run straight into the HMG fire and kill heavies...
heavies are a laughing stock in Uprising and nowhere even remotely realistic to what they "should" by definition be.

IDK where you got your definition of "perfect", but I'd dare say it's different than almost everyone else's...

if you really want to have bullets act like they should?, then their falloff should be just that, falloff starting at the time the bullet's force no longer exceeds drag and gravity, meaning snipers will have to adjust their aim to counter the distance (no more straight line bullets forever till they vanish)
same thing with any weapon that fires a projectile round from tars to charged, SRs to ARs, HMGs pistols, and everything else in-between...

...and since when did a projectile travel further and faster than light/laser?

+1, This.

Milita AR - 39M
Proto Assault Scram Rifle - 30M.

Hur dur..

I've been bothered by something about DUST for a while, and I think I've finally put my finger on it. Many thanks to noShwagg, and to the Uprising build for making this problem so over the top.

Feedback:

FULL DISCLOSURE: I play as a heavy.

Range is a huge problem in this game. More so with Uprising.

Here is why: CCP has decided to use a hard range as a metric to differentiate classes.

In no other game is this the case. In practice, it is ridiculous. Rounds stop in mid air. This is absurd.

Sure, in other games and in reality there is different effective damage at range depending on the weapon. But this is not primarily dictated by distance. It is dictated by accuracy of shooter, rate of fire (ROF), and Round Power - Damage Falloff.

Request:

CCP Should:

1) Remove hard range cap on all weapons. Rounds should travel to their natural terminus; in practice this means across the map. (shhhhhh...just listen)

2) Weapon classes should be dictated by:
- Handling (Kick)
- ROF
- Round Power

Example (categorized by effective damage/range, from long to short):

1) Long Range Weapons - Sniper Rifle/Forge Gun
-Extremely High Kick
-Low ROF
-High Power
Skill with Long Range Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Extremely High Kick
-Extremely Low ROF

2) Assault Weapons (Broadly) - ARs/LRs/SMGs/Shotguns/Pistols
-Average Kick
-Average ROF
-Average Power
Skill with Assault Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Average Kick
-Average ROF
-Average Power

3) Heavy Weapons - HMGs
-Extremely High Kick
-High ROF
-High Power
Skill with Heavy Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Extremely High Kick

Do you see a theme here? Excelling at a particular weapon involves having excellent aim despite it's drawbacks.

This is where people will say "Range is a drawback of your class, deal." Even an extremely skilled heavy player should have almost no chance of killing someone at sniper range. This should be due to simple geometry; the barrel bounce of an HMG is causing HUGE angle sway on rounds as range increases. This should not be due to the rounds entering a parallel universe at 50 yards. Dafuq Occasionally, an HMG, AR, or Pistol round should hit that sniper on the hill....

Some will say, this will eliminate CQC. I would agree to some extent, but only in that the maps lack cover and depth. If you added in more cover and ways to approach and move around, you would force squad movement and engagement at closer ranges. A lack of CQC is an approach issue, not a weapon range issue.

As it is right now, you see people shooting at each other over completely reasonable ranges...I'm talking I could throw a football that far...and their rounds aren't reaching each other. This is ridiculous!!!

TL;DR?

Extend range of ALL weapons to common round ranges. No more vanishing rounds.

Differentiate weapons by their other drawbacks, and the users ability to handle them.

I would rather see damage fall off be more progressive rather than all weapons having the same range.

HMG should not be able to fire with that ROF at an ARs optimal and still do more DPS

AR should not be able to out DPS an LR in a LR's optimal but the AR rounds also shouldn't just stop making impact all together.

Despite the range NERF to all weapons the AR is still the most viable weapon....now it's just used in a stampede. A few guys might get picked off in the herd rush by ranged weapons but once the pile of AR clones gets within 65 meters, it's a done deal. They mow down heavies before they get near the 20m heavy optimal. Weapons like the LR and TAR only have about a 20m window to take down the AR herd before their range advantage is rendered useless.


More progressive falloff is needed or a blanket buff to all effective weapon ranges. Being able to sight up an enemy with iron sights or Doom mode plain as day and not being able to do ANY damage at all is pretty game breaking, IMO.

Disagree

New range make game more interesting. No more rooftopers, no snipers far away in red zone.

Infantry playing now is very interesting, coz it not "far-away-head-glitch-shooting" and no permanent camping.

Range need no more changes, its perfect now.

Dispersion should also be a factor. the higher the rate of fire the fire the dispersion.
so, even if my HMG could shoot a sniper on a hill, at optimal range only about 75-80% of my rounds should hit, and further away less and less.

ARs need higher dispersion as they are full auto weapons.
dispersion will help limit range without cutting it off because the rounds still travel the distance but not all reach target. when kick, and other factorsa are added in, the optimal range of various weapons becomes apperant to the user over time. this skilled assesment of engagement efficacy is required on the handler's part, which is a player skill in itseflf