Ace Starburst likes this suggestion and would enjoy testing it out.

Again, I cite MAG. This was never a problem, and it was on a central server.

What's the difference?

The difference again is that there's a lot more happening on CCP servers than MAG servers.

Once again... Missiles, mass drivers, rockets, drones, LAVs, HAVs, Drop Ships, market transactions, corp communications, trading, giving, contracts, ships, jump-gates, player owned stations, planetary interaction, skill point gains and expenditures, bounties, kill rights, aggression timers, targeting, module activations and deactivations, warps, every ship in Eve, drones, NPCs, missions, the list goes on.

This supports my point, lol. CCP is in a far better position to do this for DUST.

Actually it doesn't.

the more i play the more i realize the raping done to the HMG i would like to see them fix the HMG and give it proper damage or give my sp back so i can go with the op AR........ i am tired of being killed by the ARs when i am using a gastons HMG i shoot and they turn and kill me in 2 secs and i have over 1200 shields and armor so fix it or im done do we have to by you guys a year supply of beer or anything to get you all to do something beside boost the AR and nerf all other weapons with the advance of tech in dust universe your telling me a HMG is a useless weapon call it a BBMG bb mechine gun is more to wut is is now you have no idea how much i used to love this game but all i do now is wish some one crash the severs permanently you f u c k i n g wrecked a good game by favoring the AR are you all drunk and one who says the game isnt messed up is a AR user or just realy stupid all the heaveis i have talked to all say you truely must have no idea about how weapons work and that is the best they say i could tell what else they say about your idea of the HMG but all the AR users will whine saying no they are over powered but look at the AR so just keep up what your doing and you will loss alot of players and if ppl think i am mad yes i am you ****** this game up go ahead bAND MY DUST ACCOUNT CUZ YOUR ALL FUCKTARDS AND NEED A WAKE UP CALL if they raped a hmg and the logis whats next as soobn as there are enough ppl crying lower the AR damage they will be all to willing to nerf the AR but if they use ARs they might just boost them more they being the makers so i say a big salut to the fail and lose of players ty from very pissed and if any one wants to troll what i say just ask for my address and ill give it so you can come visit

I want to show my support for this thread, I feel that it's very important for Dust's longevity that range sees a sensible increase to at least 120-200m.

Completely agree with OP, ranges of weapons in Dust are a joke.

A good example of damage drop of at range in BF3 can be found at http://symthic.com/bf3-weapon-charts
All projectiles in BF3 are physical objects subject to gravity and have different muzzle velocities.

I see no reason why Dust can't implement a similar system, would be a huge improvement in gunplay over the current system.

In between the Black Screens of Death that we are now experiencing after the update, I was able to play with the HMG and the damage boost is exactly what it needed.

With the AR being powerful from distance, we can't just post up from distance and expect to tag enemies. The damage up close is respectable now. I was able to join 2/3 Ambush matches (never played before with the HMG, but the skirmish was not working for me under the "automatic" server) and came out 4/4 and 8/4 after i had adjusted my sensitivity.

i get that we are use to more, but when i worked with an attack team, i was able to provide close cover for them several times. Playing solo will get you killed now, which i can respect, but as a rush weapon for crowd control, it does its job with an attack group and heavy power. I've only experienced this in Ambush, due to server malfunction now, but i figure it will do great in area denial in skirmish.

At this point i feel that it is really more of how the Heavy user plays rather then the HMG, and we want that with all the guns right?

No. I want things defined correctly and people to build roles around that. What you just said means the role will change constantly with the whims of the player.

The current build, and the elation some are feeling, is more like this.

You said that a centralized server was incapable of supporting things like bullet falloff.

Then you went on to say how CCP's servers deal with all those other calcs already anyway.

CCP deals with falloff constantly....in Eve.

I didn't say it was incapable, I said it would put an unreasonable amount of stress on the server bay potentially causing issues for the whole shard.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. It would be illogical for 2 reasons:

1) Other games using central servers make these calcs.
2) CCP already makes these calcs on the very server we're using.

Anything either of us say to this point is moot really. We can only cite other examples as evidence until CCP responds.

I don't expect them to respond because their concept of range (from their other responses to game problems) is so fundamentally wrong it's going to take a Gnostic experience for them to wake up.

1. And those console games, like MAG, only do very limited scope battles on their servers.

2. As far as I know it's just missiles, mass drivers, grenades, and railguns as far as Dust is concerned.

It's not impossible, just improbable that CCP will have any type of Gnostic experience relating to Dust.

Sorry Dis Cord. Had to chop out quotes so it would let me reply.

Though MAG was 128 vs 128, MAG servers still only had to track a very small number of things in comparison to CCP servers.

In Eve they handle large loads on the servers, such as 500+ ship fleet battles, by putting them on a reinforced server. Even then, the players still can cause the time dilation mechanic to kick in. Imagine if TD was applied to Dust and, under massive shard load, everything slowed down to half speed. There would be rivers of tears.

Most of the weapons are hit scan, but a few aren't.

Disagree

New range make game more interesting. No more rooftopers, no snipers far away in red zone.

Infantry playing now is very interesting, coz it not "far-away-head-glitch-shooting" and no permanent camping.

Range need no more changes, its perfect now.

there's still campers, rooftoppers and glitchers, they've simply found different places on the maps to hide...
nothing has changed in that respect.
HMGs are screwed, there's not one projectile weapon in the game except maybe a shotgun that can't out-range the HMG and even shotties in scout suits run straight into the HMG fire and kill heavies...
heavies are a laughing stock in Uprising and nowhere even remotely realistic to what they "should" by definition be.

IDK where you got your definition of "perfect", but I'd dare say it's different than almost everyone else's...

if you really want to have bullets act like they should?, then their falloff should be just that, falloff starting at the time the bullet's force no longer exceeds drag and gravity, meaning snipers will have to adjust their aim to counter the distance (no more straight line bullets forever till they vanish)
same thing with any weapon that fires a projectile round from tars to charged, SRs to ARs, HMGs pistols, and everything else in-between...

...and since when did a projectile travel further and faster than light/laser?

+1, This.

Milita AR - 39M
Proto Assault Scram Rifle - 30M.

Hur dur..

I've been bothered by something about DUST for a while, and I think I've finally put my finger on it. Many thanks to noShwagg, and to the Uprising build for making this problem so over the top.

Feedback:

FULL DISCLOSURE: I play as a heavy.

Range is a huge problem in this game. More so with Uprising.

Here is why: CCP has decided to use a hard range as a metric to differentiate classes.

In no other game is this the case. In practice, it is ridiculous. Rounds stop in mid air. This is absurd.

Sure, in other games and in reality there is different effective damage at range depending on the weapon. But this is not primarily dictated by distance. It is dictated by accuracy of shooter, rate of fire (ROF), and Round Power - Damage Falloff.

Request:

CCP Should:

1) Remove hard range cap on all weapons. Rounds should travel to their natural terminus; in practice this means across the map. (shhhhhh...just listen)

2) Weapon classes should be dictated by:
- Handling (Kick)
- ROF
- Round Power

Example (categorized by effective damage/range, from long to short):

1) Long Range Weapons - Sniper Rifle/Forge Gun
-Extremely High Kick
-Low ROF
-High Power
Skill with Long Range Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Extremely High Kick
-Extremely Low ROF

2) Assault Weapons (Broadly) - ARs/LRs/SMGs/Shotguns/Pistols
-Average Kick
-Average ROF
-Average Power
Skill with Assault Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Average Kick
-Average ROF
-Average Power

3) Heavy Weapons - HMGs
-Extremely High Kick
-High ROF
-High Power
Skill with Heavy Weapons comes from:
Being a player with excellent aim, despite:
-Extremely High Kick

Do you see a theme here? Excelling at a particular weapon involves having excellent aim despite it's drawbacks.

This is where people will say "Range is a drawback of your class, deal." Even an extremely skilled heavy player should have almost no chance of killing someone at sniper range. This should be due to simple geometry; the barrel bounce of an HMG is causing HUGE angle sway on rounds as range increases. This should not be due to the rounds entering a parallel universe at 50 yards. Dafuq Occasionally, an HMG, AR, or Pistol round should hit that sniper on the hill....

Some will say, this will eliminate CQC. I would agree to some extent, but only in that the maps lack cover and depth. If you added in more cover and ways to approach and move around, you would force squad movement and engagement at closer ranges. A lack of CQC is an approach issue, not a weapon range issue.

As it is right now, you see people shooting at each other over completely reasonable ranges...I'm talking I could throw a football that far...and their rounds aren't reaching each other. This is ridiculous!!!

TL;DR?

Extend range of ALL weapons to common round ranges. No more vanishing rounds.

Differentiate weapons by their other drawbacks, and the users ability to handle them.

I would rather see damage fall off be more progressive rather than all weapons having the same range.

HMG should not be able to fire with that ROF at an ARs optimal and still do more DPS

AR should not be able to out DPS an LR in a LR's optimal but the AR rounds also shouldn't just stop making impact all together.

Despite the range NERF to all weapons the AR is still the most viable weapon....now it's just used in a stampede. A few guys might get picked off in the herd rush by ranged weapons but once the pile of AR clones gets within 65 meters, it's a done deal. They mow down heavies before they get near the 20m heavy optimal. Weapons like the LR and TAR only have about a 20m window to take down the AR herd before their range advantage is rendered useless.


More progressive falloff is needed or a blanket buff to all effective weapon ranges. Being able to sight up an enemy with iron sights or Doom mode plain as day and not being able to do ANY damage at all is pretty game breaking, IMO.

Disagree

New range make game more interesting. No more rooftopers, no snipers far away in red zone.

Infantry playing now is very interesting, coz it not "far-away-head-glitch-shooting" and no permanent camping.

Range need no more changes, its perfect now.

Dispersion should also be a factor. the higher the rate of fire the fire the dispersion.
so, even if my HMG could shoot a sniper on a hill, at optimal range only about 75-80% of my rounds should hit, and further away less and less.

ARs need higher dispersion as they are full auto weapons.
dispersion will help limit range without cutting it off because the rounds still travel the distance but not all reach target. when kick, and other factorsa are added in, the optimal range of various weapons becomes apperant to the user over time. this skilled assesment of engagement efficacy is required on the handler's part, which is a player skill in itseflf