DUST Search - Range of ALL Classes

Dis Cord wrote:

I like what you're trying to do here, in tying the Eve-scape in to DUST.

One thing though, and you didn't say this wasn't the case, but I feel it's important to mention in order to finally jettison hard range as a class definition: All weapons need to be able to contact all enemies...even if they do minuscule damage at long range.

In Eve, our scale is enormous. You're in a cruiser that's 200 meters long, orbiting another 200m cruiser at 35km. It makes sense at these ranges to have some weapons that just don't even reach.

But, on a field where I can see someone running around from a few meters away....dif story.

Thank you very much for the excellent response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics wrote:

The maximum practical range of all small arms and especially high-powered sniper rifles depends mainly on the aerodynamic or ballistic efficiency of the spin stabilised projectiles used. Long-range shooters must also collect relevant information to calculate elevation and windage corrections to be able to achieve first shot strikes at point targets. The data to calculate these fire control corrections has a long list of variables including:

ballistic coefficient of the bullets used
height of the sighting components above the rifle bore axis
the zero range at which the sighting components and rifle combination were sighted in
bullet weight
actual muzzle velocity (powder temperature affects muzzle velocity, primer ignition is also temperature dependent)
range to target
supersonic range of the employed gun, cartridge and bullet combination
inclination angle in case of uphill/downhill firing
target speed and direction
wind speed and direction (main cause for horizontal projectile deflection and generally the hardest ballistic variable to measure and judge correctly. Wind effects can also cause vertical deflection.)
air temperature, pressure, altitude and humidity variations (these make up the ambient air density)
Earth's gravity (changes slightly with latitude and altitude)
gyroscopic drift (horizontal and vertical plane gyroscopic effect GÇö often known as spin drift - induced by the barrels twist direction and twist rate)
Coriolis effect drift (latitude, direction of fire and northern or southern hemisphere data dictate this effect)
E+¦tv+¦s effect (interrelated with the Coriolis effect, latitude and direction of fire dictate this effect)
lateral throw-off (dispersion that is caused by mass imbalance in the applied projectile)
aerodynamic jump (dispersion that is caused by lateral (wind) impulses activated during free flight at or very near the muzzle)
the inherent potential accuracy and adjustment range of the sighting components
the inherent potential accuracy of the rifle
the inherent potential accuracy of the ammunition
the inherent potential accuracy of the computer program and other firing control components used to calculate the trajectory

The ambient air density is at its maximum at Arctic sea level conditions. Cold gunpowder also produces lower pressures and hence lower muzzle velocities than warm powder. This means that the maximum practical range of rifles will be at it shortest at Arctic sea level conditions.

The ability to hit a point target at great range has a lot to do with the ability to tackle environmental and meteorological factors and a good understanding of exterior ballistics and the limitations of equipment. Without (computer) support and highly accurate laser rangefinders and meteorological measuring equipment as aids to determine ballistic solutions, long-range shooting beyond 1000 m (1100 yd) at unknown ranges becomes guesswork for even the most expert long-range marksmen.


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alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.05.07 23:06:00 - [1] - Quote I really like the discussion on this thread. Something needs to be done about range. The following are my suggestions. * I like the idea of longer range and more cover * All weapons subject to sway and movement penalties * All weapons should be differentiated by racial mechanics Caldari: Short- and long-range missiles, and long-range charged projectiles (hybrid) Gallente: Short-range charged projectiles (hybrid), and drones Minmatar: Short- and long-range projectiles, and missiles. Amarr: Short- and long-range lasers and drones. Missiles (i.e. Self propelled explosives) - limited fuel capacity dictates range, but has self-guidance capabilities. Long-range missiles have more fuel, less warhead charge. Rockets: short-range missiles that have less fuel, more warhead charge. Overall low capacity magazines due to increased ammo size/weight. Projectiles - Bullet distance determined by initial charge. Trajectory determined by the ratio of mass to accelerate. Autocannon: Short-range projectiles that have a high rate of fire, high capacity (small projectiles), low recoil (due to small bullet/accelerant) and flatter trajectory but less range due to lower charge. Artillery: long-range projectiles that have a low rate of fire (due to high recoil and longer feed times), lower capacity, high damage and more curved trajectory but travels long ranges. Hybrid GÇô Physical projectile charged with plasma, dissipates energy with distance but has greater terminal effect. Blasters: short range hybrids that overcharge the projectile with plasma; they hit very hard, but the physical projectile burns up sooner due to higher plasma charge. Average recoil, average capacity, and average rate of fire. Railguns: Long-range projectiles that have a smaller plasma charge but do not burn up over range. High recoil due to larger charge and larger mass, average capacity, average rate of fire Laser - Air molecules distort energy beam over distance. Beam laser: highly focused beam laser that has longer range, but less energy to accommodate more sensitive focusing elements. Long range, no recoil, and low damage, subject to heat buildup. Pulse lasers: short-range lasers forgo tight focusing elements for raw damage. They deal high damage, have no recoil, but energy disperses quickly, subject to heat buildup. Drones GÇô Semi-antonymous machines capable of inflicting a wide array of damage types. Subject to the limitations of the racial weapon it employs and will only work within a limited distance of the operator. * * All weapons are subject to environmental conditions such as friction, gravity, energy dispersion etc. As such, all weapons have a falloff distance at which they no longer possess the terminal energy necessary to damage a dropsuitGÇÖs shields or armor. At extreme ranges, projectiles may impact the target, but the shields and armor are able to absorb the damage within their operating parameters. Only when the projectile contains more energy that the shield or armor is actively able to absorb will damage to the shield or armor occur. These are my ideas for overcoming the current problems with range in DUST
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2013.05.08 16:14:00 - [2] - Quote Dis Cord wrote: I like what you're trying to do here, in tying the Eve-scape in to DUST. One thing though, and you didn't say this wasn't the case, but I feel it's important to mention in order to finally jettison hard range as a class definition: All weapons need to be able to contact all enemies...even if they do minuscule damage at long range. In Eve, our scale is enormous. You're in a cruiser that's 200 meters long, orbiting another 200m cruiser at 35km. It makes sense at these ranges to have some weapons that just don't even reach. But, on a field where I can see someone running around from a few meters away....dif story. Thank you very much for the excellent response. I completely agree. Projectiles/particles/charged particles/energy beams should be limited only by the physical and environmental factors impacting them. And Dust Mercs are fighting on environmentally different planets! Imagine how cool it would be to have to adjust your aim to accommodate different planetary conditions!! Talk about introducing an element of skill! Most modern hunting rifles are capable of launching a projectile 8km if aimed at 45'. In theory MCC to MCC projectile travel is well within the realm of believability. However, accurate fire at those ranges with handheld weapons is not practical. Even considering the increases in technology (including the fact that the Dropsuits would allow mercs to handle much more powerful weapons than typical for humans) there are a host of factors that will make it impractical to hit a target at extreme range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_ballistics wrote: The maximum practical range of all small arms and especially high-powered sniper rifles depends mainly on the aerodynamic or ballistic efficiency of the spin stabilised projectiles used. Long-range shooters must also collect relevant information to calculate elevation and windage corrections to be able to achieve first shot strikes at point targets. The data to calculate these fire control corrections has a long list of variables including: ballistic coefficient of the bullets used height of the sighting components above the rifle bore axis the zero range at which the sighting components and rifle combination were sighted in bullet weight actual muzzle velocity (powder temperature affects muzzle velocity, primer ignition is also temperature dependent) range to target supersonic range of the employed gun, cartridge and bullet combination inclination angle in case of uphill/downhill firing target speed and direction wind speed and direction (main cause for horizontal projectile deflection and generally the hardest ballistic variable to measure and judge correctly. Wind effects can also cause vertical deflection.) air temperature, pressure, altitude and humidity variations (these make up the ambient air density) Earth's gravity (changes slightly with latitude and altitude) gyroscopic drift (horizontal and vertical plane gyroscopic effect GÇö often known as spin drift - induced by the barrels twist direction and twist rate) Coriolis effect drift (latitude, direction of fire and northern or southern hemisphere data dictate this effect) E+¦tv+¦s effect (interrelated with the Coriolis effect, latitude and direction of fire dictate this effect) lateral throw-off (dispersion that is caused by mass imbalance in the applied projectile) aerodynamic jump (dispersion that is caused by lateral (wind) impulses activated during free flight at or very near the muzzle) the inherent potential accuracy and adjustment range of the sighting components the inherent potential accuracy of the rifle the inherent potential accuracy of the ammunition the inherent potential accuracy of the computer program and other firing control components used to calculate the trajectory The ambient air density is at its maximum at Arctic sea level conditions. Cold gunpowder also produces lower pressures and hence lower muzzle velocities than warm powder. This means that the maximum practical range of rifles will be at it shortest at Arctic sea level conditions. The ability to hit a point target at great range has a lot to do with the ability to tackle environmental and meteorological factors and a good understanding of exterior ballistics and the limitations of equipment. Without (computer) support and highly accurate laser rangefinders and meteorological measuring equipment as aids to determine ballistic solutions, long-range shooting beyond 1000 m (1100 yd) at unknown ranges becomes guesswork for even the most expert long-range marksmen.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.05.08 16:25:00 - [3] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I've seen a couple of mentions about trajectory (aka bullet drop). Something people need to know/remember is that matches are not hosted on anyone's single console like other FPS games that can be mentioned. Everything is processed on CCP's server bay. To code in trajectory and travel time for small high ROF projectile weapons, and expect the system to track every bullet fired, would put a huge amount of stress on the servers even with only a couple of thousand players. That's why CCP only has travel time for large rail turrets and forge guns and not trajectory. Only grenade based weapons have both. Missiles and rockets are their own beasties. How do other console shooters handle this problem? I assume they experience the same limitations. I think other FPS games get around these limitations by creating a optimal range, a falloff range and a no damage range. Within optimal the bullet does full damage, in falloff range the bullet does reduced damage, and no damage range is the point where the projectile deviation from the intended path would be so great that the game automatically discounts the bullet and it "disappears"