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A Second Respec

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The Infamous Duck Inf4m0us 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:45:00 - [31] - Quote On principle, I would not agree with another respec. Then I put 7.2mil SP into my heavy. Now I say screw my principles!
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.05.07 04:51:00 - [32] - Quote I agree, I would like it. Didn't realize grade 1 nanohives would be so ******* terrible
Asmadai HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 16	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:11:00 - [33] - Quote Things changed so dramatically between builds that it really was impossible realize how effective suits would be. I think a lot of people tried what they had before and found it was not the same, while others tried something new (such as myself) and made errors. We aren't owed anything but it would be excellent to be given this period to experiment and then allow the respec. I think a lot of people will actually look into more specialized margin roles too, which would serve as a good foundation for the game evolving. I'd even be willing to pay 100,000,000.00 ISK for a respec at this point, and since I would assume most people at a later stage of their character they have at least that available from all the salvage that was sold. I'm open to suggestions and compromise. I just can't see a downside to a respec where players can end up happier with no damage done to anyone.
skinn trayde On The Brink CRONOS. 111	Posted - 2013.05.07 08:52:00 - [34] - Quote There are many ways that this can go, 1. Everyone gets to respec again on the 14th, all stuff is refunded AGAIN. 2. Everyone gets to respec again, but this time you have to keep what you have and deal with it. 3. Optional respec, and all stuff is refunded again. 4. Optional respec, keeping your current assets. 5. Nobody gets to respec and if you shovelled your points into things then tough. - - 1. nobody really loses out, but you can guarantee whining. 2. only losses are to spent ISK/AUR 3 + 4. would cause QQ from some and joy from others. 5. QQ from some, HTFUs from others... you can see how this goes... Whatever happens, CCP do need to think about it hard and quickly, then respond to the concerns of all players. This has been a major update to the game and many have either made rash decisions, drunken choices, and or misinformed guesses... We are all in this for the long haul (ok some are only in it until the next Battlefied of Duty), and we will all have to live or die by both our and CCPs decisions.
Khemlar Maktaar D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:00:00 - [35] - Quote i want a respec cos im a heavy and we got shafted so much this build takes more then half a clip to kill somone with the hmg at close range and becasue at long range it does no damage cos of spray and cqc u can get out strafed theres nothing we can bloody do
JW v Weingarten SyNergy Gaming EoN. 406	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:19:00 - [36] - Quote I would cool with another respec. some people made some dumb mistakes and some suits and weapon are completely useless now
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 345	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:22:00 - [37] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I skilled a decent way into the vehicle fitting skills. Tried to build a Sica, and found I was short on PG/CPU. I tried skilling further into my fitting skill to be able to create the fitting I wanted, went back, and found out that I had spend over half a million SP on skill that gave me ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THE EXTRA PG OR CPU THEY ADVERTISED. Those skills are for infantry only. You need the vehicle fitting skills.
KatanaPT Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:24:00 - [38] - Quote +1 forgot to train some skills :P
Heavenly Daughter SyNergy Gaming EoN. 76	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:31:00 - [39] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I'd be against that - another respec - on principle. I'm sorry that you spent your SP poorly. You're probably a good guy (or girl) who made an honest mistake. And normally, you might be able to coax a helping hand out of someone. This, however, is New Eden. You are part of the harshest environment imaginable, where your success comes from your attention to details. You double check what each skill does before you triple check how much SP it costs you. You look at how to maximize your DPS while maintaining a high speed. And you look through the forums daily, constantly looking for another leg up on your competition. That's the world I want to live in anyway. TL;DR: I'm sorry for your mistakes, but that's just the nature of the game. There will almost certainly not be another re-allocation of skills. NOT FOR ALL, I chose everything very carefully, HAD I KNOWN that the weapons were going to be so bad at distance I would not have made the choices I had. HD.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 514	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:54:00 - [40] - Quote I spent an hour adding up SP costs from my old setup to my new intended setup. After realizing I wouldn't have enough SP to get everything I wanted, I made adjustments and downgrades until I was satisfied. But, just to be sure, I logged in on one of my alts and tested everything out, one piece at a time. It took about half a day doing so, but I reallocated my SP without any shred of buyers remorse? Why didn't anybody else do the same thing?

JX1 Goonfeet 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:56:00 - [41] - Quote If they revert the issue where you need Lv5 of say Gallente Medium to use Gallente Logi/Assault at all and make it so that Lv1/3/5 is required just like the skill says, then another respec would be very welcome.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet 1	Posted - 2013.05.07 10:59:00 - [42] - Quote /Sign I spent my SP correctly, so I'm not completely screwed.. But i'll caveat that - I had two alts to screw around on first(and their skills ARE borked, lol) The changes were so drastic that in order to test anything, we had to spec it. It's only after speccing something that many people were finding out that things suddenly sucked! And we cant buy EVERYTHING with Militia gear(there are no Militia Laser Rifles, for example). I think a second recpec on the 14th for the "live" release isin't asking too much :) Reguardless of the outcome, thanks for (hopefully) considering it CCP!
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 428	Posted - 2013.05.07 11:00:00 - [43] - Quote I made the choices i have now knowing what i was skilling into might not be what im used to. WE ALL knew things were changing. What i have isnt perfect but its a base to work from.
flesth Red Star. EoN. 13	Posted - 2013.05.07 11:18:00 - [44] - Quote i agree, last chance for sp reset on 14 may, after that no turning back til next time it due, i think we need 2nd chance for this on uprising and be ready for battle,
Asmadai HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 29	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:42:00 - [45] - Quote skinn trayde wrote: There are many ways that this can go, 1. Everyone gets to respec again on the 14th, all stuff is refunded AGAIN. 2. Everyone gets to respec again, but this time you have to keep what you have and deal with it. 3. Optional respec, and all stuff is refunded again. 4. Optional respec, keeping your current assets. 5. Nobody gets to respec and if you shovelled your points into things then tough. - - 1. nobody really loses out, but you can guarantee whining. 2. only losses are to spent ISK/AUR 3 + 4. would cause QQ from some and joy from others. 5. QQ from some, HTFUs from others... you can see how this goes... Whatever happens, CCP do need to think about it hard and quickly, then respond to the concerns of all players. This has been a major update to the game and many have either made rash decisions, drunken choices, and or misinformed guesses... We are all in this for the long haul (ok some are only in it until the next Battlefied of Duty), and we will all have to live or die by both our and CCPs decisions. As someone who is for the long haul I know I'll find satisfaction with the game with or without the respec. I just know that I would appreciate it and enjoy the game itself more if we were allowed to make adjustments. I think the best solution would be to just respec the skills and leave all purchases IF the open market is upcoming in the full release. I appreciate your well thought-out reply of the options they have for a respec. +1
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 48	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:59:00 - [46] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: Yes yes yes! Respec for release! Start a petition! I wasn't being serious about the petition part, but if someone was to make one I'd sign it :P
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 94	Posted - 2013.05.07 17:05:00 - [47] - Quote I'v sent petition for re-spec at [email protected]. They can not do it... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=762634#post762634
Jadek Menaheim WarRavens Orion Empire 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:31:00 - [48] - Quote This point was brought up in another feedback thread. In a way to satisfy both players and CCP, this is a possible system for 'unlimited' skill resets. Quote: In addition to a moderate isk or aur payment, your new clone is penalized with a reduction of 4-8% of your total lifetime skill points. This may be equivalent to losing the training points and implants of one's poded capsuleer in EVE. It requires a long investment to regain what was lost--yet a majority of your abilities are not lost. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=71063&find=unread
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 261	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:35:00 - [49] - Quote Asmadai wrote: Just a thought...but how about a second respec for skills on the 14. Given that new items are coming out and this could serve as an 8 day testing period for all of those who played in the beta. I may also have selfish reasons such that I regret not going into scout suits and want to try again haha :P Wouldn't be impossible or the worst thing in the world. I support this product and/or service.
bcs1a ROYAL SQUAD Shadow of the Apocalypse 17	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:52:00 - [50] - Quote Asmadai wrote: It would be great to have 8 days of being able to experiment and then be able to move on. Don't even refund the items, just give people their SP back and they can deal with selling the gear they wont use when the open market goes online. I was one of the people who was stupid and thought I knew what I was doing. This... Unless of course they are going to fix HMGs before or by then... from my support petition: Is there anyway I can get a reset of just skills? I don't want money/isks/aurum back for anything, not even the skill books I purchased, I just need to allocate the skill points differently. This would be greatly appreciated. o/ Bill

Sheena Arn Naquatech Conglomerate 2	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:57:00 - [51] - Quote Honestly, they should have released everything at once... having to either wait to spend sp or hope that you don't make horrible decisions come new items just isn't very fun. Normally I would just say "EVE is hard" or such, but in this case, there were major changes. Heck, they probably should have better explained all the skill tree changes so we better knew what we were getting into.
Murt Lesp Straight-Silvers 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 20:29:00 - [52] - Quote I got messed up with the multiple level training. I lost 1.8 Million on Minmatar Medium suits. Considering that's 2/3 of my skill points a respec. is a must. Not to mention being stuck with Aurum gear that I can't use and wasn't refunded. Please follow through when you say you're going to do a full refund. Respec. skills would allow players to grasp the changes better. Dust is powered by its players, so listen to them.
Phosis Norg Mad Clone Posse 1	Posted - 2013.05.08 00:14:00 - [53] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I spent an hour adding up SP costs from my old setup to my new intended setup. After realizing I wouldn't have enough SP to get everything I wanted, I made adjustments and downgrades until I was satisfied. But, just to be sure, I logged in on one of my alts and tested everything out, one piece at a time. It took about half a day doing so, but I reallocated my SP without any shred of buyers remorse? Why didn't anybody else do the same thing? What do you mean you reallocated. Can you move SPs from one character to another?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2761	Posted - 2013.05.08 00:19:00 - [54] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I skilled a decent way into the vehicle fitting skills. Tried to build a Sica, and found I was short on PG/CPU. I tried skilling further into my fitting skill to be able to create the fitting I wanted, went back, and found out that I had spend over half a million SP on skill that gave me ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THE EXTRA PG OR CPU THEY ADVERTISED. Those skills are for infantry only. You need the vehicle fitting skills. Nope. I was in the "vehicle upgrades" section skilling into the vehicle-based versions of the skills on my alt I've previously been using for tanks. I know they've separated the skills. They haven't made all of them work.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 519	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:06:00 - [55] - Quote Phosis Norg wrote: Cosgar wrote: I spent an hour adding up SP costs from my old setup to my new intended setup. After realizing I wouldn't have enough SP to get everything I wanted, I made adjustments and downgrades until I was satisfied. But, just to be sure, I logged in on one of my alts and tested everything out, one piece at a time. It took about half a day doing so, but I reallocated my SP without any shred of buyers remorse? Why didn't anybody else do the same thing? What do you mean you reallocated. Can you move SPs from one character to another? Reallocate as in redistribute my refunded SP. Geeze you guys are reaching for straws that aren't there. Be lucky we got our SP refunded at all. EVE just adds new content and you're stuck with what you already bought whether it's fallen to power creep or nerfed to complete uselessness. Welcome to New Eden, where you don't just live with your choices, they follow you throughout your eternal life. EDIT: Only exception to my stance on this is skills that have proven to be bugged. In that case it's up to CCP to fix it.
Ashes Rain Ashes Two Ashes 3	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:18:00 - [56] - Quote I suspect several people probably skilled certain books up above there usefulness (ex, taking dropsuit command to lvl 5 when the benefit ends at lvl 3)GÇª I suggested that these skill books be capped at the lvl of benefit, and the overage be reimbursed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74128
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 519	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:22:00 - [57] - Quote Ashes Rain wrote: I suspect several people probably skilled certain books up above there usefulness (ex, taking dropsuit command to lvl 5 when the benefit ends at lvl 3)GÇª I suggested that these skill books be capped at the lvl of benefit, and the overage be reimbursed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74128 Reading Comprehension
Ashes Rain Ashes Two Ashes 3	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:44:00 - [58] - Quote lol. I'm not saying it can't be avoided by reading, but i can see people doing it anyway.... Same reason they put fences at the zoo. No matter how many signs, without the fence to stop them, people would walk right into the lion's den...
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 519	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:47:00 - [59] - Quote Ashes Rain wrote: lol. I'm not saying it can't be avoided by reading, but i can see people doing it anyway.... Same reason they put fences at the zoo. No matter how many signs, without the fence to stop them, people would walk right into the lion's den... When more content comes out that requires some of those skills you over leveled, just count yourself ahead of the curve.
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 306	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:00:00 - [60] - Quote Wow. I didn't know that my words would spark such controversy. I checked this thread on a whim, but it seems I owe you guys a more detailed explanation of why I said what I said. To that end, I'll respond to the points brought against me, then give a more compete response. @PADDEhatpigen: You comparison to EVE and DUST is valid. It seemed like you were saying: "No change, patch, or update will change what you can do now". However, this is not EVE. The forums was abuzz with the new multiplier for skills (My info came courtesy of Free Beers). I saw that info and made a spreadsheet to compare old costs with new costs, played around with the level I would train those skills too, and compared the final number to the total SP I had. I think that everyone who was serious about what their character would "look" like after the respec should have listened for any information regarding changing SP costs. @Matakage: I don't think your argument is on solid ground, so to speak. I am also waiting until the 14th, as you are, to learn what works and what doesn't, again as you are. You are correct in saying "This game is in progress", but the game will always be "in progress". If CCP stays true to form, then we should be expecting new content of some sort every 4-6 months. A new player will always have to chose between "what is useful now" and "what might be useful later", just as every other player would. To my "Elitist HTFU attitude"; I don't think that I am better than everyone else. I will be the first to admit that there are a lot of people in game that are much better than me. I also have nothing against flattening the learning curve of DUST. I loved the altruism of "The Dollars", "D-Uni", and "BSOTT". But "flattening the curve" by giving people ISK and Skill Books is different than "removing the curve" by offering resets to everyone who made a mistake because we all make mistakes. We could argue that adding another respec is just flattening the curve to a larger degree than giving out ISK, but that's beyond the scope of this conversation. Just PM me if you wanna chat about it. @Garrett Blacknova: You have a legitimate complaint. Fortunately, it is one that is easily fixable. I don't think something as major as CPU/PG upgrades will go unnoticed. I would still caution against a full SP respec in your case, however. You have the benefit of hindsight. You purchased the skills thinking that they would work. You thought that you were going to get "+5% PG" per level. I think that your SP should stay in those skill, and those skills should be fixed. I do not think that you should get that SP back because "in retrospect, that was a mistake", largely because that's a slippery slope. Unless they just reset everyone's SP to account for every mistake, someone who feels like their mistake is valid is going to be left out. I don't think its fair to the people who didn't make any "mistakes" this time around for all of their competition to get another chance to catch up. In my eyes, its like stopping a race because one racer had a bad start. @Heavenly Daughter: I don't think that's a legitimate argument for an SP reset because (As I mentioned to Matakage) things always change. No one here knows "how bad scrambler rifles will be". If they objectively suck - 20 damage at proto level, etc - no one will know until they put in the SP. It sucks for that one person, but we aren't trying to make every single person in DUST happy. In DUST, as in life, we learn from the community. Were someone to read the forums now, they would know that they should wait to skill into Circuitry, that the MD splash range is reduced, that the trajectory is slightly off based on the smoke trail of the round, and a bundle of other tidbits of info from people who skilled into a weapon that was not what they thought it to be. When I spend my SP, I am taking responsibility for whatever happens - good or bad. I think that we should all do that. I posted what I said earlier because I want to take my own successes and failures seriously. Just as I would hate a "reset button" to planetary conquest, I dislike "SP respecs" as they have been proposed because it's giving everyone the easy way out. I might make a terrible mistake when I spend my SP. If I work up from that "disadvantage" and still come out on top, I want to be able to revel in that success. I want other to be able to say "Yeah, I skilled into heavies and I still beat you. Get Good", or something like that. SP resets cuts out the underdog, and i don't like that. All things being said, this is just my opinion. If CCP resets everything, It won't effect me. I would rather not set the precedent, is all.



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