Here is a list of top-tier/proto-level AUR items which have better PG/CPU than any ISK alternative:

'Centrifuge' Ishukone Flux Nanohive
'Schizm' Viziam Repair Tool
'Codewish' Duvolle Tac AR
'Spitfire' Six Kin Submachine Gun
'Tether' Complex Shield Regulator
'Pandemic' Complex Codebreaker
'Cascade' Complex Light Damage Mod
'Seismic' Complex Heavy Damage Mod
'Sliver' Complex Sidearm Damage Mod

The following AUR items offer other other advantages unavailable in ISK gear:

'Abyss' Carthum Drop Uplink (spawn time reduction)
'Downwind' C15-A Tac Sniper Rifle (higher damage than any other Tac variant)

Additionally, the 'HC-130' Gunnlogi and 'LC-217' Saga have slightly better CPU capacity than the ISK versions of the vehicles, although these are much more of a gray area since there are higher-tier ISK vehicles that outclass them anyway.

Just FYI there is already this thread in Feedback/Requests.

While I'm not opposed to making a request specifically to pull these items, I would like to see even a response from CCP that goes beyond "we'll look into it".

We're not "allowed" to post on that. According to the OP. I myself was told to 'go post elsewhere'. So I pointedly stated here my opinion.

We're not "allowed" to post on that. According to the OP. I myself was told to 'go post elsewhere'. So I pointedly stated here my opinion.

Reduced Spawn Timers
R-9 Drop Uplink, N-11/A Flux Drop Uplink, Flux Drop Uplink, Imperial Drop Uplink all rpvide Faster Spawns.
The Abys will not persist beyond the owner's death.

The "Downwind" C15-A Tactical Sniper Rifle has 1/3 the Rate of Fire of any Tactical Sniper Rifle.

The items with lower PG/ CPU I can agree they shouldn't be in there. Only, imho, should be the lower Skill Requirements, not lower Fitting requirements.

There are several items in the player market that are ptototype level, AUR only and offer advantages you can not obtain from ISK variants (primarily lower CPU/PG requirements). CCP has stated that they do not want AUR items available that offer advantages over what is available in the ISK market. Because we are getting our SP respec and AUR/ISK items refunded this is an excellent time to remove those items from the market and the game to eliminate advantages of stockpiled goods.

Agreed. 2 many people like markul gartel running around with killswitch's doing more damage than my duvolle using mommies credit card. .1 dps or no you shouldn't have to pay for aurum varients to feel like you're bringing the very best to the table. especially those complex damage mods. I'd like to see CCP allow details on the players you killed, at least give me the satisfaction of knowing I helped CCP earn a little extra cash each time I kill a pubbie.

Also, I suggest disregarding General's topic until he learns that forums are for discussion on topics, not for "answer my specific questions and nothing else or GTFO my thread". Not meaning anything against you as a person, or a player, General, but lrn2interwebz.

Omgod, trollhard514 on his spai account...wtf http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mufasa+mufasa+mufasa&mid=5C787542C71D2E4E60F15C787542C71D2E4E60F1&view=detail&FORM=VIRE5

Agreed. 2 many people like markul gartel running around with killswitch's doing more damage than my duvolle using mommies credit card. .1 dps or no you shouldn't have to pay for aurum varients to feel like you're bringing the very best to the table. especially those complex damage mods. I'd like to see CCP allow details on the players you killed, at least give me the satisfaction of knowing I helped CCP earn a little extra cash each time I kill a pubbie.

We have all talked about this enough haven't we? The only thing that remains is for CCP to remove them or justify them.

There are several items in the player market that are ptototype level, AUR only and offer advantages you can not obtain from ISK variants (primarily lower CPU/PG requirements). CCP has stated that they do not want AUR items available that offer advantages over what is available in the ISK market. Because we are getting our SP respec and AUR/ISK items refunded this is an excellent time to remove those items from the market and the game to eliminate advantages of stockpiled goods.

CCP, please be true to your claim of wanting to limit P2W advantages and keep these items and similar out of the game until there is a secondary player market.


This request is based off of this thread in general discussion. And this question from the recent Reddit AMA.

Here is a list of the items in question if anyone wants to verify for themselves.



Edit: also, this thread in feedback is on the same subject and may have more information/opinions.

The 'HC-130' Gunnlogi and 'LC-217' Saga are fine as there are superior ISK variants (as you note). That aside +1 to the thread. Until we have a secondary/player market seeding of "above proto" goods for AUR only is both ill advised and (IMO) violates the spirit of the game. After a fully functional (read: has no fewer features than the EVE: Online market, tho full integration isn't required) market is implemented then I have no problem with the items listed, even in their present state, being available, however until then they really should be pulled.

0.02 ISK
Cross

This might be a silly question, but instead of removing the AUR based items with distinct advantages, why not make ISK gear with similar (if not identical) specs?

That would also be fine from the point of view of eliminating supremacy goods. There are really 3 options:

1) remove the problematic AUR items
2) nerf the problematic AUR items to match the equivalent ISK items
3) buff the equivalent ISK items to match the problematic AUR items.

However, buffing the ISK items to match the AUR items as they stand now would make the market hierarchy sort of absurd, because in several cases, you would be going from an ISK Advanced-tier item to an ISK Proto-tier item with the same or very similar CPU/PG requirements. Usually you expect CPU/PG requirements to go up as you progress through the gear tiers, not stay the same...

That isn't to say it couldn't be done, but for the sake of general gear balance, the rest of the market would have to be reworked. Options 1 or 2 would be much simpler to implement.

There's also option 4:

Implementing the Player Market.

There's also option 4:

Implementing the Player Market.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there some pay to win grenades as well, the kind that explode on impact with no ISK varients?

The explode-on-impact grenades (Fused Locus Grenades) come with the Merc Pack, but they're not available to purchase on the market for either AUR or ISK. I suppose you are purchasing them (along with a bunch of other stuff) for $20 ... but only 50 come with each Merc Pack; it'd be pretty ridiculous to think of buying dozens of Merc Packs just to restock those grenades.

In any case, I feel like that's a different issue when we're talking about those sorts of bundles as opposed to the items directly on the market for AUR.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE MARKEPLACE?
DUST 514 marks a first for consoles as a AAA free-to-play FPS. Players can download the game from the PlayStation-«Network and play DUST 514 completely free of charge. Players earn ISK, an in-game currency, by winning battles, doing missions, and more. Players can also buy Aurum, another in-game currency, through the PlayStation-«Store. Players looking to customize their experience can spend either ISK or Aurum on a variety of microtransaction purchases. That said, DUST 514 is not a pay-to-win game. Players purchasing items with Aurum will not result in an unfair advantage over players who only spend ISK, the in-game earned currency.

Actually I've never had them, but I've been killed by them a few times. And I've known people to buy several merc packs, one a month... so there might be people who have hundreds stocked. In fact many of the AUR items listed don't bug me at all, but explode on impact grenades are ridiculously pay to win. Cooking grenades takes skill. Paying to have them pre-cooked...... I think falls under the title of "Supremacy Goods"

There's another thread about the economic impact of these things you guys should check out in General Discussion. I really think that might be a bigger issue, Of the three factors to the outcome of a battle in this game gear is trumped by proper SP allocation and player skill by a large margin so somebody having a complex mod where you can only fit an advanced really isn't a gamebreaker.

If you are referring to this thread, I would agree that it is important. However that has more to do with AUR items in general impacting the EVE-Dust economy which is a much broader topic.

It is also a problem that will mostly arise when the player market comes to Dust and we have EVE-Dust ISK exchange, while supremacy goods on the other hand are mostly a problem until a player market arrives, since players will, in theory, be able to obtain anything with ISK from there.

I don't think player skill should be a factor in this argument (and I would argue that SP allocation is an area of player skill). It gets used a lot. "I can take out proto gear players in starter fits" does not mean that those fits are equal. It just means that one player is substantially better than another. If gear gives you an advantage it gives you an advantage. Whether or not you can use it personally is irrelevant.

Yeah, the AUR Gunnlogi and Saga are easily the least objectionable items on that list. I only added them as an addendum because they were in the category of 'other things with minor stat differences between AUR and ISK variants'. I still feel they probably should have the CPU reduced to match the ISK versions, but ultimately if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal.

Just going to bump this, since CCP Jian dared us to find these items, even though he was made aware of them during the Reddit AMA.

Yeah, I just watched that Fanfest video. They did say they were aware of the Low CPU/PG proto items and that they just haven't made the change live yet. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this will happen with Uprising. There's no reason for them to take them out before then since they will still remain in player inventories if people already bought a ton.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're listed as I think they have a place in this discussion, I simply don't believe there to be a balance issue so long as the top of the line AUR gear available in a given area isn't mechanically better in any way than the top of the line ISK gear of the same type. In theory I suppose that could be extended to apply to balancing within each Meta level but I'm honestly not that concerned by the smaller gradients in this case since (as the AI voice points out) "AUR lets you do more, faster" as long as the end game state is one where the best ISK gear on the market is equal too or better than the best AUR gear on the market then all is well. (A note here, salvage only drops are a thing of their own and should not construed to be part of my point when assessing "best non-AUR gear").

In any event I'm glad you brought both HAVs up, I just don't see them as an actual balance concern when taken within context.

Cheers,
Cross

You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.

When all AUR items are available for ISK would you still have a problem with these supremacy goods?

You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.

Quoting the FAQ in the main page.



Even as a DUST 514 "fanboy" I find this completely dissapointing. If CCP keeps breaking promises I smell either a dead game, or a game full of people who lack FPS skills to play anything else and result into paying to win in order to make themselves feel better.

To the OP
I've taken down MANY proto players by using just type I and type II. It's lame to request such a removal just because you suck and can't take the competition
Theres great satisfaction in knowing that every proto player you nail........cost him real money.
keep the aurum proto etc, and stop your b!tchin.

There's also option 4:

Implementing the Player Market.

lies exposed

Cool story bro.

Tell us again how pro you are.

Im FAR from pro, but you should know as much as anyone how easy it is to take down proto

No, assuming the market was fully functional (i.e. player-set supply and demand determining prices).

The two things are unrelated, so unless you have something to add on the supremacy goods issue, why not stop talling instead of looking more stupid.

+1
Remove Aurum supremacy items.
This has gone on, long enough.

If we allow it even an inch, ccp will take a mile. Everyone needs to speak up.

'Abyss' Carthum Drop Uplink (spawn time reduction)