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Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
476
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Posted - 2013.04.20 22:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
OP's Dirty Secret wrote:Agreed. 2 many people like markul gartel running around with killswitch's doing more damage than my duvolle using mommies credit card. .1 dps or no you shouldn't have to pay for aurum varients to feel like you're bringing the very best to the table. especially those complex damage mods. I'd like to see CCP allow details on the players you killed, at least give me the satisfaction of knowing I helped CCP earn a little extra cash each time I kill a pubbie.
Just stop talking, seriously. With Weaponry V, AR Proficiency III and 2 damage mods my 'killswitch' does 0.29% more damage than my Duvolle and that's probably just and rounding/display error in base damage.
I'll tell Mark he has a fan though next time I see him in corp chat. And I'm going to kill you with a militia AR repeatedly just for acting a fool. Soon as I figure out who you are anyway. |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
479
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Posted - 2013.04.21 14:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have to know or it will bug me for at least a day, maybe even two: The hell are you talking about? |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
483
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Posted - 2013.04.21 22:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
There's another thread about the economic impact of these things you guys should check out in General Discussion. I really think that might be a bigger issue, Of the three factors to the outcome of a battle in this game gear is trumped by proper SP allocation and player skill by a large margin so somebody having a complex mod where you can only fit an advanced really isn't a gamebreaker. |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
484
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Posted - 2013.04.22 13:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soozu wrote:Spacetits CDXX wrote:Soozu wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there some pay to win grenades as well, the kind that explode on impact with no ISK varients? The explode-on-impact grenades (Fused Locus Grenades) come with the Merc Pack, but they're not available to purchase on the market for either AUR or ISK. I suppose you are purchasing them (along with a bunch of other stuff) for $20 ... but only 50 come with each Merc Pack; it'd be pretty ridiculous to think of buying dozens of Merc Packs just to restock those grenades. In any case, I feel like that's a different issue when we're talking about those sorts of bundles as opposed to the items directly on the market for AUR. Actually I've never had them, but I've been killed by them a few times. And I've known people to buy several merc packs, one a month... so there might be people who have hundreds stocked. In fact many of the AUR items listed don't bug me at all, but explode on impact grenades are ridiculously pay to win. Cooking grenades takes skill. Paying to have them pre-cooked...... I think falls under the title of "Supremacy Goods"
There is an ISK variant. It was removed but will be back in the game. t think someone said in another thread a while back it was because of a bug with them but I seem to remember it being an issue with the level of Grenadier required to use them. I might try and dig up the DEV post about it but it really doens't matter I guess. Either way they will be available at some point. |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
484
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Posted - 2013.04.22 17:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:If you are referring to this thread, I would agree that it is important. However that has more to do with AUR items in general impacting the EVE-Dust economy which is a much broader topic. It is also a problem that will mostly arise when the player market comes to Dust and we have EVE-Dust ISK exchange, while supremacy goods on the other hand are mostly a problem until a player market arrives, since players will, in theory, be able to obtain anything with ISK from there.
I get that at the moment it's not fair. That being said:
1. The game is unfinished. Unfortunately 'fairness' takes a back seat to making sure things work. If these items are removed until release and then added back CCP will have no idea how they will impact the game. The day you release a game is a bad idea to put a bunch of brand new stuff in it.
2. CCP has to make money somehow. I don't like it, but I accept it.
3. They want the data on how people spend their AUR. AUR sales are the sole source of revenue from the game. They want to know what sells and what doesn't.
Moonracer2000 wrote:
I don't think player skill should be a factor in this argument (and I would argue that SP allocation is an area of player skill). It gets used a lot. "I can take out proto gear players in starter fits" does not mean that those fits are equal. It just means that one player is substantially better than another. If gear gives you an advantage it gives you an advantage. Whether or not you can use it personally is irrelevant.
I didn't say anything about starter fits killing proto or the fits being equal. And yes, player skill is part of the conversation because like it or not there's no market yet but the mods are in the game because they need be in it for us to test out the game. CCP has been making the market work for a decade so they have a pretty good idea how it's going to work.
Player skill is pretty much at the heart of what I was saying. The advantage gained from these items is not gamebreaking and can be overcome by player skill. If you fit the best ISK suit you can the advantage given by these "supremacy goods" is really not that much. Just because someone using them killed you doesn't mean they killed you because they were using it.
Put simply, CCP is going to try and make it as fun to play as possible because they need people to test it but at the end of the day our enjoyability is a distant second to what they need us to test out. So I would say it is ridiculous to expect them to not do what they need to do because at the moment certain players have an advantage over others. That will be fixed by the market. As much of the game's content has to be included during the test, that's just common sense.
Look, I don't really like it and I think they should be removed from the game so I don't want to get used to using them. But I only want them removed because of the problems I see on the economic side of things. As far as it not being fair right now I can deal with it because it's either that or stop playing until the market is here. |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
486
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Just going to bump this, since CCP Jian dared us to find these items, even though he was made aware of them during the Reddit AMA. Yeah, I just watched that Fanfest video. They did say they were aware of the Low CPU/PG proto items and that they just haven't made the change live yet. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this will happen with Uprising. There's no reason for them to take them out before then since they will still remain in player inventories if people already bought a ton.
They should probably also stop adding new ones as well. |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
488
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Posted - 2013.04.23 23:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Spacetits CDXX wrote:Yeah, the AUR Gunnlogi and Saga are easily the least objectionable items on that list. I only added them as an addendum because they were in the category of 'other things with minor stat differences between AUR and ISK variants'. I still feel they probably should have the CPU reduced to match the ISK versions, but ultimately if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're listed as I think they have a place in this discussion, I simply don't believe there to be a balance issue so long as the top of the line AUR gear available in a given area isn't mechanically better in any way than the top of the line ISK gear of the same type. In theory I suppose that could be extended to apply to balancing within each Meta level but I'm honestly not that concerned by the smaller gradients in this case since (as the AI voice points out) "AUR lets you do more, faster" as long as the end game state is one where the best ISK gear on the market is equal too or better than the best AUR gear on the market then all is well. (A note here, salvage only drops are a thing of their own and should not construed to be part of my point when assessing "best non-AUR gear"). In any event I'm glad you brought both HAVs up, I just don't see them as an actual balance concern when taken within context. Cheers, Cross You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.
When all AUR items are available for ISK would you still have a problem with these supremacy goods? |
Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
496
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Posted - 2013.04.25 04:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:When all AUR items are available for ISK would you still have a problem with these supremacy goods? No, assuming the market was fully functional (i.e. player-set supply and demand determining prices).
There isn't really a chance of it being any other way. As I understand it there is only going to be the one market, which is probably the case since an "Infantry Gear" section has already been added in EVE.
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Altina McAlterson
Not Guilty
EoN.
497
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Posted - 2013.04.25 06:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:BlG MAMA wrote:Deranged Disaster wrote:Quoting the FAQ in the main page. Quote:CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE MARKEPLACE?
DUST 514 marks a first for consoles as a AAA free-to-play FPS. Players can download the game from the PlayStation-«Network and play DUST 514 completely free of charge. Players earn ISK, an in-game currency, by winning battles, doing missions, and more. Players can also buy Aurum, another in-game currency, through the PlayStation-«Store. Players looking to customize their experience can spend either ISK or Aurum on a variety of microtransaction purchases. That said, DUST 514 is not a pay-to-win game. Players purchasing items with Aurum will not result in an unfair advantage over players who only spend ISK, the in-game earned currency. Even as a DUST 514 "fanboy" I find this completely dissapointing. If CCP keeps breaking promises I smell either a dead game, or a game full of people who lack FPS skills to play anything else and result into paying to win in order to make themselves feel better. lies exposed  +1 Remove Aurum supremacy items. This has gone on, long enough. If we allow it even an inch, ccp will take a mile. Everyone needs to speak up.
You'll be able to buy these supremacy items on the market for ISK. CCP isn't going to take them out and they won't be "unfair" forever so everybody needs to deal with it and move on. |
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