Actually I've never had them, but I've been killed by them a few times. And I've known people to buy several merc packs, one a month... so there might be people who have hundreds stocked. In fact many of the AUR items listed don't bug me at all, but explode on impact grenades are ridiculously pay to win. Cooking grenades takes skill. Paying to have them pre-cooked...... I think falls under the title of "Supremacy Goods"

There's another thread about the economic impact of these things you guys should check out in General Discussion. I really think that might be a bigger issue, Of the three factors to the outcome of a battle in this game gear is trumped by proper SP allocation and player skill by a large margin so somebody having a complex mod where you can only fit an advanced really isn't a gamebreaker.

If you are referring to this thread, I would agree that it is important. However that has more to do with AUR items in general impacting the EVE-Dust economy which is a much broader topic.

It is also a problem that will mostly arise when the player market comes to Dust and we have EVE-Dust ISK exchange, while supremacy goods on the other hand are mostly a problem until a player market arrives, since players will, in theory, be able to obtain anything with ISK from there.

I don't think player skill should be a factor in this argument (and I would argue that SP allocation is an area of player skill). It gets used a lot. "I can take out proto gear players in starter fits" does not mean that those fits are equal. It just means that one player is substantially better than another. If gear gives you an advantage it gives you an advantage. Whether or not you can use it personally is irrelevant.

Yeah, the AUR Gunnlogi and Saga are easily the least objectionable items on that list. I only added them as an addendum because they were in the category of 'other things with minor stat differences between AUR and ISK variants'. I still feel they probably should have the CPU reduced to match the ISK versions, but ultimately if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal.

Just going to bump this, since CCP Jian dared us to find these items, even though he was made aware of them during the Reddit AMA.

Yeah, I just watched that Fanfest video. They did say they were aware of the Low CPU/PG proto items and that they just haven't made the change live yet. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this will happen with Uprising. There's no reason for them to take them out before then since they will still remain in player inventories if people already bought a ton.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're listed as I think they have a place in this discussion, I simply don't believe there to be a balance issue so long as the top of the line AUR gear available in a given area isn't mechanically better in any way than the top of the line ISK gear of the same type. In theory I suppose that could be extended to apply to balancing within each Meta level but I'm honestly not that concerned by the smaller gradients in this case since (as the AI voice points out) "AUR lets you do more, faster" as long as the end game state is one where the best ISK gear on the market is equal too or better than the best AUR gear on the market then all is well. (A note here, salvage only drops are a thing of their own and should not construed to be part of my point when assessing "best non-AUR gear").

In any event I'm glad you brought both HAVs up, I just don't see them as an actual balance concern when taken within context.

Cheers,
Cross

You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.

When all AUR items are available for ISK would you still have a problem with these supremacy goods?

You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.

Quoting the FAQ in the main page.



Even as a DUST 514 "fanboy" I find this completely dissapointing. If CCP keeps breaking promises I smell either a dead game, or a game full of people who lack FPS skills to play anything else and result into paying to win in order to make themselves feel better.

To the OP
I've taken down MANY proto players by using just type I and type II. It's lame to request such a removal just because you suck and can't take the competition
Theres great satisfaction in knowing that every proto player you nail........cost him real money.
keep the aurum proto etc, and stop your b!tchin.

There's also option 4:

Implementing the Player Market.

lies exposed

Cool story bro.

Tell us again how pro you are.

Im FAR from pro, but you should know as much as anyone how easy it is to take down proto

No, assuming the market was fully functional (i.e. player-set supply and demand determining prices).

The two things are unrelated, so unless you have something to add on the supremacy goods issue, why not stop talling instead of looking more stupid.

+1
Remove Aurum supremacy items.
This has gone on, long enough.

If we allow it even an inch, ccp will take a mile. Everyone needs to speak up.

'Abyss' Carthum Drop Uplink (spawn time reduction)