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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
885
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Posted - 2013.04.21 19:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:There are several items in the player market that are ptototype level, AUR only and offer advantages you can not obtain from ISK variants (primarily lower CPU/PG requirements). CCP has stated that they do not want AUR items available that offer advantages over what is available in the ISK market. Because we are getting our SP respec and AUR/ISK items refunded this is an excellent time to remove those items from the market and the game to eliminate advantages of stockpiled goods. CCP, please be true to your claim of wanting to limit P2W advantages and keep these items and similar out of the game until there is a secondary player market. This request is based off of this thread in general discussion. And this question from the recent Reddit AMA. Here is a list of the items in question if anyone wants to verify for themselves. Spacetits CDXX (on reddit) wrote:
Here is a list of top-tier/proto-level AUR items which have better PG/CPU than any ISK alternative:
'Centrifuge' Ishukone Flux Nanohive
'Schizm' Viziam Repair Tool
'Codewish' Duvolle Tac AR
'Spitfire' Six Kin Submachine Gun
'Tether' Complex Shield Regulator
'Pandemic' Complex Codebreaker
'Cascade' Complex Light Damage Mod
'Seismic' Complex Heavy Damage Mod
'Sliver' Complex Sidearm Damage Mod
The following AUR items offer other other advantages unavailable in ISK gear:
'Abyss' Carthum Drop Uplink (spawn time reduction)
'Downwind' C15-A Tac Sniper Rifle (higher damage than any other Tac variant)
Additionally, the 'HC-130' Gunnlogi and 'LC-217' Saga have slightly better CPU capacity than the ISK versions of the vehicles, although these are much more of a gray area since there are higher-tier ISK vehicles that outclass them anyway.
Edit: also, this thread in feedback is on the same subject and may have more information/opinions.
The 'HC-130' Gunnlogi and 'LC-217' Saga are fine as there are superior ISK variants (as you note). That aside +1 to the thread. Until we have a secondary/player market seeding of "above proto" goods for AUR only is both ill advised and (IMO) violates the spirit of the game. After a fully functional (read: has no fewer features than the EVE: Online market, tho full integration isn't required) market is implemented then I have no problem with the items listed, even in their present state, being available, however until then they really should be pulled.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
885
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Posted - 2013.04.22 05:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Spacetits CDXX wrote:Jedah McClintock wrote:This might be a silly question, but instead of removing the AUR based items with distinct advantages, why not make ISK gear with similar (if not identical) specs? That would also be fine from the point of view of eliminating supremacy goods. There are really 3 options: 1) remove the problematic AUR items 2) nerf the problematic AUR items to match the equivalent ISK items 3) buff the equivalent ISK items to match the problematic AUR items. However, buffing the ISK items to match the AUR items as they stand now would make the market hierarchy sort of absurd, because in several cases, you would be going from an ISK Advanced-tier item to an ISK Proto-tier item with the same or very similar CPU/PG requirements. Usually you expect CPU/PG requirements to go up as you progress through the gear tiers, not stay the same... That isn't to say it couldn't be done, but for the sake of general gear balance, the rest of the market would have to be reworked. Options 1 or 2 would be much simpler to implement. There's also option 4: Implementing the Player Market.
+1 Baal |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
886
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:Cross Atu wrote:The 'HC-130' Gunnlogi and 'LC-217' Saga are fine as there are superior ISK variants (as you note). That aside +1 to the thread. Until we have a secondary/player market seeding of "above proto" goods for AUR only is both ill advised and (IMO) violates the spirit of the game. After a fully functional (read: has no fewer features than the EVE: Online market, tho full integration isn't required) market is implemented then I have no problem with the items listed, even in their present state, being available, however until then they really should be pulled.
0.02 ISK
Cross Yeah, the AUR Gunnlogi and Saga are easily the least objectionable items on that list. I only added them as an addendum because they were in the category of 'other things with minor stat differences between AUR and ISK variants'. I still feel they probably should have the CPU reduced to match the ISK versions, but ultimately if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're listed as I think they have a place in this discussion, I simply don't believe there to be a balance issue so long as the top of the line AUR gear available in a given area isn't mechanically better in any way than the top of the line ISK gear of the same type. In theory I suppose that could be extended to apply to balancing within each Meta level but I'm honestly not that concerned by the smaller gradients in this case since (as the AI voice points out) "AUR lets you do more, faster" as long as the end game state is one where the best ISK gear on the market is equal too or better than the best AUR gear on the market then all is well. (A note here, salvage only drops are a thing of their own and should not construed to be part of my point when assessing "best non-AUR gear").
In any event I'm glad you brought both HAVs up, I just don't see them as an actual balance concern when taken within context.
Cheers,
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
887
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Posted - 2013.04.23 23:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Spacetits CDXX wrote:Yeah, the AUR Gunnlogi and Saga are easily the least objectionable items on that list. I only added them as an addendum because they were in the category of 'other things with minor stat differences between AUR and ISK variants'. I still feel they probably should have the CPU reduced to match the ISK versions, but ultimately if they didn't, it wouldn't be that big a deal. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're listed as I think they have a place in this discussion, I simply don't believe there to be a balance issue so long as the top of the line AUR gear available in a given area isn't mechanically better in any way than the top of the line ISK gear of the same type. In theory I suppose that could be extended to apply to balancing within each Meta level but I'm honestly not that concerned by the smaller gradients in this case since (as the AI voice points out) "AUR lets you do more, faster" as long as the end game state is one where the best ISK gear on the market is equal too or better than the best AUR gear on the market then all is well. (A note here, salvage only drops are a thing of their own and should not construed to be part of my point when assessing "best non-AUR gear"). In any event I'm glad you brought both HAVs up, I just don't see them as an actual balance concern when taken within context. Cheers, Cross You make a reasonable point and ultimately I think we're more or less in agreement here. Balancing within each meta level would be nice but I agree it doesn't matter too much if it's not the top meta level. If CCP addresses the rest of the items on the list by Uprising (as I guess they said on the stream, haven't watched it yet) and the vehicles stay as they currently are I would be happy with that.
Agreed, and further I'm not specifically opposed to balance within each Meta being revisited once the player market is live, however for the context of Uprising considering the time frame I'm much more Marco oriented. In any event I think we are pretty much on the same page here and I appreciate your continuing this discussion in a reasonable and courteous way.
Cheers,
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
896
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Posted - 2013.04.25 03:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Any chance someone at fanfest has heard mention of this? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
League of Infamy
899
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Posted - 2013.04.28 04:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's strange to me that more people have trouble with Militia gear (based on thread responses) than with above proto AUR gear... then again I've seen "X weapon is OP'ed nerf it!" and "X suit is OP'ed nerf it!" threads for everything in the game except Nova Knives and Logi's (and I'm waiting, once we get cloaks and shield bubbles I wont be surprised to see those threads crop up).
It's just odd that more players are inclined to rant about how the thing which counters their chosen role/style is "broken" then they are to object when the top gear on the market is 'IRL cash only' gear.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
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