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lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
434
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I apologize for the foul mouth. I am heavily medicated and have a loose tongue in the video.I have had a few players ask me how well it works with x4 complex dmg mods so I thought I would share my experience.Do any of you use x4 or do you try and stray from it due to penalties?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHr_mJn17xY&feature=youtu.be
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
249
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
My experience tell me that the bonus from that 4th is so little that most often you'd be better off switching it for an extender or other module.
/c |
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Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries
104
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:I apologize for the foul mouth. I am heavily medicated and have a loose tongue in the video.I have had a few players ask me how well it works with x4 complex dmg mods so I thought I would share my experience.Do any of you use x4 or do you try and stray from it due to penalties? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHr_mJn17xY&feature=youtu.be
It looks awesome against a full team with "new players". Why don't you try again against "old/good people", not like me of course. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
465
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
good lord! How many faces were melted that day? |
lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
434
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:lowratehitman wrote:I apologize for the foul mouth. I am heavily medicated and have a loose tongue in the video.I have had a few players ask me how well it works with x4 complex dmg mods so I thought I would share my experience.Do any of you use x4 or do you try and stray from it due to penalties? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHr_mJn17xY&feature=youtu.be It looks awesome against a full team with "new players". Why don't you try again against "old/good people", not like me of course.
Lol,I dont pick the enemy. I try to run the LR at least 80% of the time,so there is a good chance I would be playing a mixture of all players... |
lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
435
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:good lord! How many faces were melted that day?
I have been having fun as of lately melting faces,I have tons of great video :) |
MarakPS3 Daga
The Trustfund
1
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
jeeesus. kb/m btw? thanks for the link, was interesting to see. |
dent 308
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1138
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Warms my cold bitter heart. |
lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
436
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
MarakPS3 Daga wrote:jeeesus. kb/m btw? thanks for the link, was interesting to see.
DS3 :( |
MarakPS3 Daga
The Trustfund
1
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:MarakPS3 Daga wrote:jeeesus. kb/m btw? thanks for the link, was interesting to see. DS3 :(
damn nice aiming!
.... i think ill go find a corner and cry about my sucky aiming now... |
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hydraSlav's
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
59
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
4x complex damage mods: 28.59 damage 3x complex damage mods: 27.8 damage
That 4th module is only giving you 2.8% increase (as compared to 10% from the first)
Honestly, i wouldn't think you'd see a difference between 3 and 4.
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67188&find=unread
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
99
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
makes me glad that cloaking is coming so i hide from all of those nasty laser burns |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy ROFL BROS
405
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
I found it interesting that when you noted the amount of randoms, your squad leader at the time (I think) said 'our combined SP [would] overcome that'. If we're acknowledging the distinct advantage SP gives over newbies, then I hope that new build cuts down that gap. I sometimes choose to play solo instead of squadding with corp mates to see how completely new players feel, and it is not good. It's worrying that face melting may provide great entertainment to us yet is a big problem in the debate over "player retention".
I don't envy CCP's task.
Developing a skill system that reflects a sense of progression whilst keeping the difference between newbies and veterans balanced so as to ensure people who join aren't instantly met by a wall of impenetrable pub stomping is hard. Solutions exist, but which one is the right one? |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
424
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I found it interesting that when you noted the amount of randoms, your squad leader at the time (I think) said 'our combined SP [would] overcome that'. If we're acknowledging the distinct advantage SP gives over newbies, then I hope that new build cuts down that gap. I sometimes choose to play solo instead of squadding with corp mates to see how completely new players feel, and it is not good. It's worrying that face melting may provide great entertainment to us yet is a big problem in the debate over "player retention".
I don't envy CCP's task.
Developing a skill system that reflects a sense of progression whilst keeping the difference between newbies and veterans balanced so as to ensure people who join aren't instantly met by a wall of impenetrable pub stomping is hard. Solutions exist, but which one is the right one?
As I've said before, multiple times, and been backed up by other people, SP means squat next to player skill. SP will give you an edge over someone with the same skill level, but apart from that, if you're in a proto suit and you're truly god-awful at this game, you're not going to be magically good.
Teamwork is OP, skill is OP, SP is not. |
Goon ReGnUM
Immobile Infantry
8
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
This game play was beyond boredom. However, it did point out a few major flaws in the game.
1. It showed how broken the Laser Rifle is.
2. It showed how broken map control is, when a camping squad is able to have a vantage points into two main spawns.
3. It showed how slow gameplay gets, when a dominating force decides to camp it.
Overall, this video pretty much shows what is wrong with most of the game. Abuse of a broken weapon with the abuse of a broken map design.
Hopefully, CCP is watching this video. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative
333
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
You'd have a hard time convincing me that the biggest thing working against new players is map awareness.
There are very distinct tactical advantages that a map gives that is multiplied by a good squad, skills, and fittings. The mid to long range laser is beast-mode from the 'bridge or crow's nest' as I've heard it called. The counter to a fixed position there is to assault from the north and/or west pipes with grenades/mass driver/AR. Establishing a stronghold from Charlie is an alternative to this as it provides enough cover to be safe, and harrass the bridge, especially if you have snipers. But it looks like that never happended during that video. The ground position on Ashland really only works if you have vehicle superiority, and even then it has a tactical disadvantage.
I haven't used the laser a lot, but it seems that one of the biggest things that it 'forgives' is moving targets. The heat buildup means that if you aren't finished by the first half of a firing cycle the damage increase will get you if the user gets you on another sweep. This means that it may be one of the ideal candidates for a weapon that is good at hitting targets darting in and out of cover. A lack of awareness of this by new players means they don't know how weak they are to different weapons.
Map awareness is a giant knowledge gap for new players, and that could thing that us as a community could work on to improve...maybe?
And also, I've been messing around with 3x damage mods (A-series logi) on my ADV Assault Mass Driver and imagine that a max damage assault mass driver could mean something like 120+ splash damage out to 8+ meters 8 rounds at a time from over 100 meters away. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
123
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Everyone always picks on the laser rifle, it isn't broke, its just more user friendly because it allows you to auto correct instantly where as its harder to see bullet trails on ARs. I know people may not say that, but it really is just the aim guide and constant damage that makes that gun awesome.
I like the slowness of the game, I'm not 18 anymore with twitchy reflexs, I enjoy playing a game I don't have to be hyped up on 10 energy drinks and nerd rage just to get a positive K/D. Only thing that makes me kinda sad is the server based hit detection and how it can get laggy blocky shot detection, but thats probably my fault for playing on wireless lol.
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Rupture Reaperson
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
80
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Posted - 2013.04.08 13:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
I have to applaud thesick aim that hitman has, wherever being an AR or laser, gotta call out a hawkeye when I see one. |
Goon ReGnUM
Immobile Infantry
14
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Everyone always picks on the laser rifle, it isn't broke, its just more user friendly because it allows you to auto correct instantly where as its harder to see bullet trails on ARs. I know people may not say that, but it really is just the aim guide and constant damage that makes that gun awesome.
I like the slowness of the game, I'm not 18 anymore with twitchy reflexs, I enjoy playing a game I don't have to be hyped up on 10 energy drinks and nerd rage just to get a positive K/D. Only thing that makes me kinda sad is the server based hit detection and how it can get laggy blocky shot detection, but thats probably my fault for playing on wireless lol.
Firstly, Dust 514 is not even a twitch shooter. If your having trouble keeping up on this game, then maybe you should get checked out for ParkinsonGÇÖs.
Your whole reasoning on the laser rifle not being broken is auto correct... really? |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
455
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yup, totally not broken. |
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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative
333
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken.
And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people.
I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
456
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken. And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people. I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. Actually no, I could not care less about the sharpshooter thing. I have sharpshooter level III and I'm doing just fine.
The weapon is broken, if you are watching this and think otherwise you probably want to check your eyes. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
100
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken. And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people. I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. Actually no, I could not care less about the sharpshooter thing. I have sharpshooter level III and I'm doing just fine. The weapon is broken, if you are watching this and think otherwise you probably want to check your eyes. damage mods....x4 can't wait for 6x damage modders |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative
333
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken. And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people. I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. Actually no, I could not care less about the sharpshooter thing. I have sharpshooter level III and I'm doing just fine. The weapon is broken, if you are watching this and think otherwise you probably want to check your eyes.
What do you mean you have sharpshooter now? I don't think you get my point, the range of AR users is going to drop because (as far as I've heard) there will no longer be a sharpshooter skill. In exchange there will be a skill that reduces damage spread/kickback.
I've seen that supposedly there is a damage scaling OPness of the viziam that devs have confirmed. Okay. But you still haven't really dealt with my main assertions about the usefullness of the laser rifle. I see most of the kills are dudes idiotically running out of cover, simply not moving while being melted, trying to counter with the AR. Having a GEK/Duvolle on you for the same amount of time with damage mods would result in the same thing, just not at that distance.
Are you saying that you want AR to be essentially equal to the laser rifle? I'm open to suggestions as to your suggestions on what to fix. But so far you just crying "BROKE!" isn't really constructive. Map control issues are separate from weapon balance issues. Weapon balance issues are related to player skill choice issues-which also relate to map control issues. |
Ynned Ivanova
Legion of Eden
0
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:I apologize for the foul mouth. I am heavily medicated and have a loose tongue in the video.I have had a few players ask me how well it works with x4 complex dmg mods so I thought I would share my experience.Do any of you use x4 or do you try and stray from it due to penalties? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHr_mJn17xY&feature=youtu.be
And? Replace Viziam with any Proto level weapon + 4 complex mods and the results would be the same against that opposition. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors O.M.N.I. Initiative
333
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Meh...watched it again and wanted to change my opinion. Most kills came from spawn camps.
But I really, still don't think this is about the laser rifle being broken. I think its the spawn system not recognizing the danger of a location when it can be safely attacked from long range. But the difficulty of LOS balancing issues on maps will scale by orders of magnitude the larger the maps get. I really don't think the spawn system would be any more fair on 3 to 4x larger maps.
Also, we have figured out that if you hit sprint while you spawn/revive you can more or less instantly move rather than having to dumbfreeze for a couple seconds.
Funny thing is that the OBS at 4:50 kind of did the other team a favor by cleaning out the spawn seed so that people wouldn't continue to get placed in a farmable area. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
456
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken. And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people. I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. Actually no, I could not care less about the sharpshooter thing. I have sharpshooter level III and I'm doing just fine. The weapon is broken, if you are watching this and think otherwise you probably want to check your eyes. damage mods....x4 can't wait for 6x damage modders Ehhm, stacking penalties... |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
463
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
First of all there should be NO balance done based on what happens in pubstomps like this (nearly everyone he killed was in militia gear?).
Still, the laser needs some heavy balancing. This is what I've proposed several times:
1. The militia laser (which we don't have yet) should with no skills overheat after 40-50 shots. The overheat function must play a role, and it currently does not.
2. The skills should be fixed so that they work. A fully maxed proto laser should then overheat after 70-80 shots, so that the overheat function still plays a minor role.
3. Base damage should get a slight increase while the max damage should get a major decrease. Max damage on the laser is simply way too high at the moment. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
456
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Yup, totally not broken. And when they take sharpshooter away from AR users you all will be crying more. I'm telling you, the player-base is going to have to spread out in terms of its weapons use. If 70% of users' optimal damage range is under 30m then YES the laser will be OP, but you shouldn't nerf the laser so that you can cater to the vanilla weapon choices of people. I'm thinking about a sort of tactical-weapon use 101 for every weapon out there. David Cross' AR strafing video was quite helpful for AR users, but really not too valid for much else out there. There are equally great tactics for a lot of other weapons out there that people should know and will help to balance out what seems to be unfair advantages of these combinations. Actually no, I could not care less about the sharpshooter thing. I have sharpshooter level III and I'm doing just fine. The weapon is broken, if you are watching this and think otherwise you probably want to check your eyes. What do you mean you have sharpshooter now? I don't think you get my point, the range of AR users is going to drop because (as far as I've heard) there will no longer be a sharpshooter skill. In exchange there will be a skill that reduces damage spread/kickback. I've seen that supposedly there is a damage scaling OPness of the viziam that devs have confirmed. Okay. But you still haven't really dealt with my main assertions about the usefullness of the laser rifle. I see most of the kills are dudes idiotically running out of cover, simply not moving while being melted, trying to counter with the AR. You can't balance for stupid... Having a GEK/Duvolle trained on you for the same amount of time with damage mods would result in the same thing, just not at that distance. Are you saying that you want AR to be essentially equal to the laser rifle? I'm open to suggestions as to your suggestions on what to fix. But so far you just crying "BROKE!" isn't really constructive. Map control issues are separate from weapon balance issues. Weapon balance issues are related to player skill choice issues-which also relate to map control issues. The AR range as far as I know isn't dropping, just the sharphooter skill won't increase the range anymore. And just to make you understand, a laser touched me for a millisecond (It moved across my view, didn't even target me but the heavy near me) and it just removed 550hp in that moment. The AR can't do that, you have to aim properly and put down around 10 bullets.
I don't want the AR to be like that, I want lasers to stop have ridiculous amounts of DPS. OR make it so that you have to actually hold the laser on the enemy and only then the damage increases, instead of just the weapon builds up heat hence its now more powerful. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
100
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Posted - 2013.04.08 14:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Meh...watched it again and wanted to change my opinion. But I really, still don't think this is about the laser rifle being broken. I think its the spawn system not recognizing the danger of a location when it can be safely attacked from long range. Also, we have figured out that if you hit sprint while you spawn/revive you can more or less instantly move rather than having to dumbfreeze for a couple seconds. Funny thing is that the OBS at 4:50 kind of did the other team a favor by cleaning out the spawn seed so that people wouldn't continue to get placed in a farmable area. spawns actually do need fixing. alot of time people spawn out in the open with 30m+ to go for cover which usually means dead again. if the ambush maps where bigger it would help the spawning system some, just look at COD maps for an idea on spawning, they do it pretty well actually. |
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