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NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. CBS are gone new example please. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
940
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:bottom line on how people will see things: If you can use real money to give yourself an edge in battle in a meaningful way like... idk.... changing your specialization to be the exact counter needed. That's pay to win. +1 for more logic.......... I am impressed. Was I never logical in the past? lol Troll logic > real logic again flawed how can you counter the unknown if you can't respec in battle I can't see how this is p2w nor have u given an example to prove your point. No you're misunderstanding again, here's a scenario to help you understand.
Your going into a corp battle in 30 minutes against a corp that is known to be tank heavy, your side doesn't have that many AV guys capable of taking them out, so you have members A,b,C respec into AV so they can deal with them. However it's just as likely that the other team has anticapated that you will do something like this, and have had members A,B,C on their side respec away from tanks into anti AV fits namely infantry.
a respec system would blow the whole idea of picking your members for certain batles and gathering intel on what fits enemy players use out of the window. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1841
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Interesting how CCP never brought this up during the past ten years. Doubt they would for another ten. They haven't because to my knowledge eve players have no asked for it as a whole I'm sure onezz and twozzz have over the years u have to think of the different player mind set and background of the two games and like I said before ccp has a great track record of giving players what they want. If people keep calling for it something will happen one way or the other.
Do not insult my intelligence nor that of my Eve brethren. To this day, there are still players on Eve asking the same thing you are asking right now. We are just busy putting those carebears back in their place every time they ask for an Eve style respec for cash. |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
258
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. CBS are gone new example please.
Same scenario with PC. |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
258
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:39:00 -
[65] - Quote
Double post. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. Beside you talking about a game mechanic that is soon to be removed. Your wrong one several counts you can't change skills in a war room. Second why in name of all that's holy fight imperfect with some that has never used a tank more over y challenge them if you don't have what you need to compete. Third just because you can respec how does that make you any better than anyone else? Sooo where is the pay to win here I see nothing. |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
258
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. Beside you talking about a game mechanic that is soon to be removed. Your wrong one several counts you can't change skills in a war room. Second why in name of all that's holy fight imperfect with some that has never used a tank more over y challenge them if you don't have what you need to compete. Third just because you can respec how does that make you any better than anyone else? Sooo where is the pay to win here I see nothing.
You are only arguing the example and not the problem.
I never said skill wouldnt matter. It does but proto swarms takes 0 skill.
It would be broken. |
Simply Shenanigans
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
I believe we will have a re-allocation at Uprising release due to the sheer amount of new weapons and suites in the game, and the fact that people where forced into certain racial suites for their class (caladari for assault for example). While I can see other re-allocation in the future during open beta as they implement more and more weapons, suites, and vehicles in the game do not see it being reallocated once the game is in full release. Nor do I for see CCP having paid re-allocations or even re allocations for expansions. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:48:00 -
[69] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Interesting how CCP never brought this up during the past ten years. Doubt they would for another ten. They haven't because to my knowledge eve players have no asked for it as a whole I'm sure onezz and twozzz have over the years u have to think of the different player mind set and background of the two games and like I said before ccp has a great track record of giving players what they want. If people keep calling for it something will happen one way or the other. Do not insult my intelligence nor that of my Eve brethren. To this day, there are still players on Eve asking the same thing you are asking right now. We are just busy putting those carebears back in their place every time they ask for an Eve style respec for cash. Did I say one insulting thing to anyone here? Calm down guy I can get insulting if you wish. Well it is what it is my comments stands if 50% of our player base leave what do u think happens to dust ? Again I don't care either way just talking about an issue that keeps coming up in the forums don't take it personal because nothing I have said is personal. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
undeadsoldier90 wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. Beside you talking about a game mechanic that is soon to be removed. Your wrong one several counts you can't change skills in a war room. Second why in name of all that's holy fight imperfect with some that has never used a tank more over y challenge them if you don't have what you need to compete. Third just because you can respec how does that make you any better than anyone else? Sooo where is the pay to win here I see nothing. You are only arguing the example and not the problem. I never said skill wouldnt matter. It does but proto swarms takes 0 skill. It would be broken. Why do people insist I'm arguing.... Not sure what ur saying the problem is I was simply replying to ur example if u make the problem clear we can adress it in an informed manner |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2255
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. Beside you talking about a game mechanic that is soon to be removed. Your wrong one several counts you can't change skills in a war room. Second why in name of all that's holy fight imperfect with some that has never used a tank more over y challenge them if you don't have what you need to compete. Third just because you can respec how does that make you any better than anyone else? Sooo where is the pay to win here I see nothing. With the way Planetary Conquest works, this system will be MORE P2W than it would be in the current Corp Battle system.
You know who you're attacking (or who's attacking you), and have 24 hours to prepare. Anyone with AUR to spare and a less-than-optimal loadout for the enemy you'll be facing can buy a respec. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Incase people missed it. My main points on this topic were: lots of people are asking for respecs, and my opinion is with the sheer number of requests I think it possible given our tiny community. Sub point I was then told its p2w yet not a single person can tell me how it is p2w that has no holes in their logic. Lastly I'm not arguing or insulting anyone simply replying to post if you feel threaten or insulted by me I assure you this was not my intent. |
Icy Xenosmilus
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Respecs will not cost real money. Confirmed over IRC.
/thread. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
940
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
We have told you multiple times that it's P2W and even gave you good examples, and please show me where all the requests got an do reset are, because I've seen more people arguing against one then for one. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:I and I am sure quite a few people are pro reset. Why? I started off as a heavy, switched to assault. I would like to have that 3 mill sp from my heavy to make my assault better.
Now with that said this should be a 1 TIME DEAL! One chance to start over. If it becomes something ISK or AUR based the game mechanics will be ruined no matter what the cost of said reset is.
Here is why
You are a assault AR user. Your corp takes a 500 mill CB against imperfects. No one in your corp has propper AV or a good tank so you pay the AUR or ISK to suddenly have proto AV or a proto tank. Thus the game mechanics are broken and we have a pay to win system. Beside you talking about a game mechanic that is soon to be removed. Your wrong one several counts you can't change skills in a war room. Second why in name of all that's holy fight imperfect with some that has never used a tank more over y challenge them if you don't have what you need to compete. Third just because you can respec how does that make you any better than anyone else? Sooo where is the pay to win here I see nothing. With the way Planetary Conquest works, this system will be MORE P2W than it would be in the current Corp Battle system. You know who you're attacking (or who's attacking you), and have 24 hours to prepare. Anyone with AUR to spare and a less-than-optimal loadout for the enemy you'll be facing can buy a respec. Okay so what your telling me is some the enemy know every person ur bringing what they plan to use what tatics they are going. To employ then as a group they are going to spend xxxx aur on it? First who are your spies second most people I know refuse to buy boosters or a uvt now ur telling me u can convince multiple people they are going to respec for a battle that's 24hr on a unknown battle against unknown players really? |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
399
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
gbghg wrote:We have told you multiple times that it's P2W and even gave you good examples, and please show me where all the requests got an do reset are, because I've seen more people arguing against one then for one. \
are we de-railing this thread next gbghg? |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:09:00 -
[77] - Quote
gbghg wrote:We have told you multiple times that it's P2W and even gave you good examples, and please show me where all the requests got an do reset are, because I've seen more people arguing against one then for one. U have not given me one i can't poke at least 3 holes in. And for people to argue against something wouldn't there have to be people for it? It makes no sense that there are more posts vs then for it. Why go against something noones talking about. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
447
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
If you can buy AUR items with ISK then nothing would be P2W. Just throwing that out there. And also UVT's are not really a good example of anything as CCP has to license voice chat from another company and uses UVT's to offset that cost. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
940
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:gbghg wrote:We have told you multiple times that it's P2W and even gave you good examples, and please show me where all the requests got an do reset are, because I've seen more people arguing against one then for one. \ are we de-railing this thread next gbghg? No this thread is for serious discussion, and now I must sleep |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1843
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
OP, you are correct that CCP can make plenty of money out your idea. There is just one problem. The monetary gains will never be enough to cover the loss of reputation CCP will suffer. And we all know what happened back during the Jita riots when CCP tried to get greedy. |
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NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
Can someone tell me how a respec option in dust would be any different than the countless mmos that do it? Please how or why is this such a big issue tell me the last mmo other than eve it wasn't possible. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1844
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
You have to understand where we are coming from here. A large portion of the DUST player base originated from MAG and Eve Online and the reason we act like this is because we want to protect CCP from making critical mistakes like they did back in 2011. Believe me, its for the best. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2256
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Incase people missed it. My main points on this topic were: lots of people are asking for respecs, and my opinion is with the sheer number of requests I think it possible given our tiny community. Sub point I was then told its p2w yet not a single person can tell me how it is p2w that has no holes in their logic. Lastly I'm not arguing or insulting anyone simply replying to post if you feel threaten or insulted by me I assure you this was not my intent. In case YOU missed it: You haven't provided a single legitimate hole in anyone's logic yet, and we've provided several major holes in what you're trying to pass off as logic. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:OP, you are correct that CCP can make plenty of money out your idea. There is just one problem. The monetary gains will never be enough to cover the loss of reputation CCP will suffer. And we all know what happened back during the Jita riots when CCP tried to get greedy. Umm not my idea I'm just commenting on what I'm seeing as to jita riots must have been during one of my breaks from eve or before I started my point is while this is a game in the eve universe it is not eve. In fact I've talked to several eve players and friends.alike they could careless if we burn in hell. So I doubt the majority or the major player in eve take any notice to a thing we do or don't do in dust it's not the same game with the same stakes and it won't be for years to come. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1844
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
We have already answered your questions. Besides, there is no point in continuing to ask us why we are against this if all you will ever do is not listen. We made our case. Again, we are doing this to protect CCP from themselves. We do have a stakeholder relationship with CCP anyways. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:You have to understand where we are coming from here. A large portion of the DUST player base originated from MAG and Eve Online and the reason we act like this is because we want to protect CCP from making critical mistakes like they did back in 2011. Believe me, its for the best. I've played both games u speak of and you act as if I'm for this.... I don't care. Mag did have a respec system if memory serves so still not getting the issue. And like I've said every other mmo save eve has had some kind of respec system yet people act like its a foreign concept. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1164
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
I don't feel like being real |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2256
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:With the way Planetary Conquest works, this system will be MORE P2W than it would be in the current Corp Battle system.
You know who you're attacking (or who's attacking you), and have 24 hours to prepare. Anyone with AUR to spare and a less-than-optimal loadout for the enemy you'll be facing can buy a respec. Okay so what your telling me is some the enemy know every person ur bringing what they plan to use what tatics they are going. To employ then as a group they are going to spend xxxx aur on it? First who are your spies second most people I know refuse to buy boosters or a uvt now ur telling me u can convince multiple people they are going to respec for a battle that's 24hr on a unknown battle against unknown players really? What I'm telling you is that with 24 hours' notice, a Corp can find out a LOT from people who have fought that enemy before.
And what I'm telling you is that a lot of people have AUR that they'd be willing to spend on something that's going to improve their performance in a major Planetary Conquest battle.
And it's definitely NOT going to be "an unknown battle against unknown players" - THAT'S THE POINT.
And you still haven't countered the most important argument, which is that A CORE VALUE IN NEW EDEN IS THE FACT THAT YOUR DECISIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. When you skill into something, you've made your decision, and must now LIVE WITH IT. Not spend money to make the decision go away. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:We have already answered your questions. Besides, there is no point in continuing to ask us why we are against this if all you will ever do is not listen. We made our case. Again, we are doing this to protect CCP from themselves. We do have a stakeholder relationship with CCP anyways for this reason. Answered what questions? Listen?I have replied to everything said here. Who is we? U speak as If you have some underground cult. My only question has been how is it a p2w system? Lets take aur off the table would it still be p2w or cause this cult to come out of hiding if it was Isk instead of aur or better yet free once a year. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2256
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:You have to understand where we are coming from here. A large portion of the DUST player base originated from MAG and Eve Online and the reason we act like this is because we want to protect CCP from making critical mistakes like they did back in 2011. Believe me, its for the best. I've played both games u speak of and you act as if I'm for this.... I don't care. Mag did have a respec system if memory serves so still not getting the issue. And like I've said every other mmo save eve has had some kind of respec system yet people act like its a foreign concept. Added bold to the part you seem to be misreading.
MAG had a respec system. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. It conributed to the game's death.
MMO is one thing, FPS is quite another, and New Eden another thing still.
The idea of having a respec option in New Eden doesn't work with the concepts and attitudes that CCP have built their world (and their fanbase) around. It also doesn't work for FPS gaming as well as it does for other types of MMO. It negates the importance of your training when you can just spend money to become equally proficient at something else on the same character. |
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