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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2256
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:We have already answered your questions. Besides, there is no point in continuing to ask us why we are against this if all you will ever do is not listen. We made our case. Again, we are doing this to protect CCP from themselves. We do have a stakeholder relationship with CCP anyways for this reason. Answered what questions? Listen?I have replied to everything said here. Who is we? U speak as If you have some underground cult. My only question has been how is it a p2w system? Lets take aur off the table would it still be p2w or cause this cult to come out of hiding if it was Isk instead of aur or better yet free once a year. No it wouldn't be pay-to-win.
It would still be a terrible idea that goes against many of the core values of the setting, and it would still be game-breaking for the type of gameplay involved in DUST, just like it was detrimental in MAG. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1845
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Posted - 2013.03.31 05:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
All meaningful choices must have permanent consequences even if your choice was based on a misinformed decision. If you are not willing to accept that, then look for another game because that is the point of being a merc or capsuleer in New Eden. DUST is not Eve. I get it. But DUST is operating under the same Adapt Or Die rules of that same universe. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1845
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Posted - 2013.03.31 05:42:00 -
[93] - Quote
Accept the consequences of your choices. End of discussion. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
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Posted - 2013.03.31 05:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:With the way Planetary Conquest works, this system will be MORE P2W than it would be in the current Corp Battle system.
You know who you're attacking (or who's attacking you), and have 24 hours to prepare. Anyone with AUR to spare and a less-than-optimal loadout for the enemy you'll be facing can buy a respec. Okay so what your telling me is some the enemy know every person ur bringing what they plan to use what tatics they are going. To employ then as a group they are going to spend xxxx aur on it? First who are your spies second most people I know refuse to buy boosters or a uvt now ur telling me u can convince multiple people they are going to respec for a battle that's 24hr on a unknown battle against unknown players really? What I'm telling you is that with 24 hours' notice, a Corp can find out a LOT from people who have fought that enemy before. And what I'm telling you is that a lot of people have AUR that they'd be willing to spend on something that's going to improve their performance in a major Planetary Conquest battle. And it's definitely NOT going to be "an unknown battle against unknown players" - THAT'S THE POINT. And you still haven't countered the most important argument, which is that A CORE VALUE IN NEW EDEN IS THE FACT THAT YOUR DECISIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. When you skill into something, you've made your decision, and must now LIVE WITH IT. Not spend money to make the decision go away. So what ur saying is corp a vs corp b fight on district 3 out of say 4. Being attack by an known number of enemies say 2 your telling me that you know without a shadow of a doubt that corp a are going to be using x player and corp b needs to respec just to counter him when they other team may not even use him not only that your going to respec every time you face a new enemy? Nah bro don't see it happening and its too easy to fix they could set respecs to once a week or once a month. As to ur important argument I agree with u which why I said I'd use it if do do it and could care less if they don't. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1845
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:50:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nikia, don't underestimate the organizational capacity and Intel gathering mastery of the inhabitants of new Eden. I have seen it happen before. You should know that since you played Eve. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1811
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:54:00 -
[96] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:With the way Planetary Conquest works, this system will be MORE P2W than it would be in the current Corp Battle system.
You know who you're attacking (or who's attacking you), and have 24 hours to prepare. Anyone with AUR to spare and a less-than-optimal loadout for the enemy you'll be facing can buy a respec. Okay so what your telling me is some the enemy know every person ur bringing what they plan to use what tatics they are going. To employ then as a group they are going to spend xxxx aur on it? First who are your spies second most people I know refuse to buy boosters or a uvt now ur telling me u can convince multiple people they are going to respec for a battle that's 24hr on a unknown battle against unknown players really? What I'm telling you is that with 24 hours' notice, a Corp can find out a LOT from people who have fought that enemy before. And what I'm telling you is that a lot of people have AUR that they'd be willing to spend on something that's going to improve their performance in a major Planetary Conquest battle. And it's definitely NOT going to be "an unknown battle against unknown players" - THAT'S THE POINT. And you still haven't countered the most important argument, which is that A CORE VALUE IN NEW EDEN IS THE FACT THAT YOUR DECISIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. When you skill into something, you've made your decision, and must now LIVE WITH IT. Not spend money to make the decision go away. So what ur saying is corp a vs corp b fight on district 3 out of say 4. Being attack by an known number of enemies say 2 your telling me that you know without a shadow of a doubt that corp a are going to be using x player and corp b needs to respec just to counter him when they other team may not even use him not only that your going to respec every time you face a new enemy? Nah bro don't see it happening and its too easy to fix they could set respecs to once a week or once a month. As to ur important argument I agree with u which why I said I'd use it if do do it and could care less if they don't. The thing is is that most corps will always have an A team - and knowing who that is isn't really a problem. ZionTCD's calls themselves "TCD Prime" *Empty list lol* and it's not hard to get a hold of. SyN and SI have similar set ups - though they can arrange there more talented player base around. It's also not hard to find out how a corp has been winning. It's doubtful a corp will change a winning strategy until it sees a hard counter. STB is known for tanks, Imps for AR game, PFBH for tanks/AR, Zion for Logi'/Heavie, Hellstorm AR/heavy/some logi ect ect. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
52
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:56:00 -
[97] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:You have to understand where we are coming from here. A large portion of the DUST player base originated from MAG and Eve Online and the reason we act like this is because we want to protect CCP from making critical mistakes like they did back in 2011. Believe me, its for the best. I've played both games u speak of and you act as if I'm for this.... I don't care. Mag did have a respec system if memory serves so still not getting the issue. And like I've said every other mmo save eve has had some kind of respec system yet people act like its a foreign concept. Added bold to the part you seem to be misreading. MAG had a respec system. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. It conributed to the game's death. MMO is one thing, FPS is quite another, and New Eden another thing still. The idea of having a respec option in New Eden doesn't work with the concepts and attitudes that CCP have built their world (and their fanbase) around. It also doesn't work for FPS gaming as well as it does for other types of MMO. It negates the importance of your training when you can just spend money to become equally proficient at something else on the same character. hmm I think what your saying is a matter of opinion. And we are entitled to it. As to mag I really enjoyed the game first of its kind like dust. I quit playing don't remember why I know respecing was not the issue nor do I know of anyone that quit for this reason maybe you? As to spending money to become proficient at some else. Personally I could respec right now to proto heavy and get my but whooped or proto mass driver and get killed by a scout. My point is and I'm sure u have seen it fight some people just because u have a proto suit doesn't make u skilled in using it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2256
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:56:00 -
[98] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:So what ur saying is corp a vs corp b fight on district 3 out of say 4. Being attack by an known number of enemies say 2 your telling me that you know without a shadow of a doubt that corp a are going to be using x player and corp b needs to respec just to counter him when they other team may not even use him not only that your going to respec every time you face a new enemy? Nah bro don't see it happening and its too easy to fix they could set respecs to once a week or once a month. As to ur important argument I agree with u which why I said I'd use it if do do it and could care less if they don't. I've got at least 24 hours to find out everything I need to know about the Corp.
It's entirely possible I'll be able to find a person's real-world identity and arrange for an "emergency" to make sure one of the other Corp's top players is unavailable for the battle with that much advance warning.
I can probably find out which (if any) Mercs they've hired and try to pay some off to either no-show or sabotage the Corp's efforts in any of a large variety of ways. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Nikia, don't underestimate the organizational capacity and Intel gathering mastery of the inhabitants of new Eden. I have seen it happen before. You should know that since you played Eve. True like I said simple limit respecs easy fix |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1811
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:So what ur saying is corp a vs corp b fight on district 3 out of say 4. Being attack by an known number of enemies say 2 your telling me that you know without a shadow of a doubt that corp a are going to be using x player and corp b needs to respec just to counter him when they other team may not even use him not only that your going to respec every time you face a new enemy? Nah bro don't see it happening and its too easy to fix they could set respecs to once a week or once a month. As to ur important argument I agree with u which why I said I'd use it if do do it and could care less if they don't. I've got at least 24 hours to find out everything I need to know about the Corp. It's entirely possible I'll be able to find a person's real-world identity and arrange for an "emergency" to make sure one of the other Corp's top players is unavailable for the battle with that much advance warning. I can probably find out which (if any) Mercs they've hired and try to pay some off to either no-show or sabotage the Corp's efforts in any of a large variety of ways. ... you scare me now |
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NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:03:00 -
[101] - Quote
you guys win lol I'm tired of talking about something I could care less about. Thanks for the interesting debate with limited trolling nice to have a convo on the forums without pointless hate |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2257
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:04:00 -
[102] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Added bold to the part you seem to be misreading.
MAG had a respec system. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. It conributed to the game's death.
MMO is one thing, FPS is quite another, and New Eden another thing still.
The idea of having a respec option in New Eden doesn't work with the concepts and attitudes that CCP have built their world (and their fanbase) around. It also doesn't work for FPS gaming as well as it does for other types of MMO. It negates the importance of your training when you can just spend money to become equally proficient at something else on the same character. hmm I think what your saying is a matter of opinion. And we are entitled to it. As to mag I really enjoyed the game first of its kind like dust. I quit playing don't remember why I know respecing was not the issue nor do I know of anyone that quit for this reason maybe you? As to spending money to become proficient at some else. Personally I could respec right now to proto heavy and get my but whooped or proto mass driver and get killed by a scout. My point is and I'm sure u have seen it fight some people just because u have a proto suit doesn't make u skilled in using it. There is opinion involved on why you, personally left MAG. I played MAG very little (on a friend's account, not my own), and I left for my own reasons.
But the fact that people respeccing into FOTM builds was part of the downfall of MAG is just that - a fact. Not opinion. It wasn't the only factor (obviously), but it was part of the problem. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
447
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: No it wouldn't be pay-to-win
Because P2W doesn't exist in DUST since all AUR items will be available for purchase with ISK? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2258
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:09:00 -
[104] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: No it wouldn't be pay-to-win
Because P2W doesn't exist in DUST since all AUR items will be available for purchase with ISK? I was responding to the suggestion of a non-monetary respec option. If you're not spending real money on that option, of course it's not going to be pay-to-win. Look at that in context and it makes a LOT more sense. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
696
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
No.
And you say a lot of people want to respec? Yeah, they do, but most want it so they can fix a few bad decisions or so that they can use the new suits/weapons when they come. You're system on the other hand reeks of potential for abuse. The ability to respec on the fly should never be allowed, doesn't matter how much it costs. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:No.
And you say a lot of people want to respec? Yeah, they do, but most want it so they can fix a few bad decisions or so that they can use the new suits/weapons when they come, not so that they can completely change specialization whenever they want. You're system on the other hand reeks of potential for abuse. The ability to respec on the fly should never be allowed, doesn't matter how much it costs. I'm done with the debate honest but who are you talking to? Me i didn't say anything about respecing on the fly in fact several times I've send limited to once a week or month so little confused here. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
697
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: I'm done with the debate honest but who are you talking to?
This is your thread, who else would I be talking to?
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:several times I've send limited to once a week or month so little confused here. You mean the thing you said once on page 5? Sorry if I didn't read every single one of your posts, but you were getting repetitive. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:50:00 -
[108] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: I'm done with the debate honest but who are you talking to?
This is your thread, who else would I be talking to? NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:several times I've send limited to once a week or month so little confused here. You mean the thing you said once on page 5? Sorry if I didn't read every single one of your posts, but you were getting repetitive. Don't be a smartass guy. And I read everything on page 5 I haven't said a thing about respecing on the fly. Or have I suggested a system for respecing in anyway get your facts straight before you talk **** in a pointed manner. I've only ever said could happen and also in my opinion this would not be p2w. So if I suggest some respec on the fly or some sort of exploit system as you claim coming at me all hostile please quote it otherwise... Well you can finish that. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 06:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: I'm done with the debate honest but who are you talking to?
This is your thread, who else would I be talking to? NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:several times I've send limited to once a week or month so little confused here. You mean the thing you said once on page 5? Sorry if I didn't read every single one of your posts, but you were getting repetitive. Don't be a smartass guy. And I read everything on page 5 I haven't said a thing about respecing on the fly. Or have I suggested a system for respecing in anyway get your facts straight before you talk **** in a pointed manner. I've only ever said could happen and also in my opinion this would not be p2w. So if I suggest some respec on the fly or some sort of exploit system as you claim coming at me all hostile please quote it otherwise... Well you can finish that. You only suggested limiting it to once a week/month ONCE in this thread, not several times. And I never called it pay to win, more like pay to not have to think about the consequences of my choices.
You might want to take some anger management classes BTW. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: I'm done with the debate honest but who are you talking to?
This is your thread, who else would I be talking to? NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:several times I've send limited to once a week or month so little confused here. You mean the thing you said once on page 5? Sorry if I didn't read every single one of your posts, but you were getting repetitive. Don't be a smartass guy. And I read everything on page 5 I haven't said a thing about respecing on the fly. Or have I suggested a system for respecing in anyway get your facts straight before you talk **** in a pointed manner. I've only ever said could happen and also in my opinion this would not be p2w. So if I suggest some respec on the fly or some sort of exploit system as you claim coming at me all hostile please quote it otherwise... Well you can finish that. You only suggested limiting it to once a week/month ONCE in this thread, not several times. And I never called it pay to win, more like pay to not have to think about the consequences of my choices. You might want to take some anger management classes BTW. What is your point? I've never implied any kind of system for respecing as you claim my points and I guess I need to say it three times now were that lots of people were wanting a respec and that I don't think it's pay to win if you happen to have been reading an example between me and someone else it was simply a example and I said once once a week or month at least twice in fact I had to repeat myself for another person. You saw me say I was done with the post yet you point me out saying I'm saying things I did not say simply because you don't want to read the posts. Why half write this with half information? Why not ask me to clarify instead of imply things I didn't say? Anger? Ignorance doesn't make me angry it makes me sad. |
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NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:09:00 -
[111] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Incase people missed it. My main points on this topic were: lots of people are asking for respecs, and my opinion is with the sheer number of requests I think it possible given our tiny community. Sub point I was then told its p2w yet not a single person can tell me how it is p2w that has no holes in their logic. Lastly I'm not arguing or insulting anyone simply replying to post if you feel threaten or insulted by me I assure you this was not my intent. You clearly didn't read this so I found it for u. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
Yeah, yeah, many people want a respec, myself included. That doesn't "almost" guarantee anything, or that it will be Aurum only.
You did imply a system, it was one were you pay to respec, it wasn't till page 5 that you suggested any limits on it. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:29:00 -
[113] - Quote
"I can almost guarantee CCP will start selling 1 Million SP sets because a lot of people want SP without having to grind."
If I posted this, people would rip me to shreds. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:30:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Yeah, yeah, many people want a respec, myself included. That doesn't "almost" guarantee anything, or that it will be Aurum only.
You did imply a system, it was one were you pay to respec, it wasn't till page 5 that you suggested any limits on it. still whatsyour point? you still don't have a point? you act like im against a respec for something op said nothing about a system. i'm sorry your ******** man and i can't make you see reason that i was only replying to other people that were saying respec before a battle i myself never implied to respec before a battle. and like you say your self i did say a limited on it before your comment of saying i said respec on the fly. so again what was your point? i also said many times that it be free or pay isk for it sooo..... again what was you point? you have none you came here trying to troll me on a post i was trying to end without getting upset at dumbass people like you who start **** for no reason with half information of in your case no information at all because everything you say just contradict what i said. all of if serving no purpose other than trying to get a rise out of me i guess. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:33:00 -
[115] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Yeah, yeah, many people want a respec, myself included. That doesn't "almost" guarantee anything, or that it will be Aurum only.
You did imply a system, it was one were you pay to respec, it wasn't till page 5 that you suggested any limits on it.
And I stopped reading at page 4, it was just you saying "a lot of people want this" and "CCP can make a lot of money from this , why should it be free", sorry if not wanting to read the same thing over and over again makes me ignorant.
Sorry, but you can't make such claims without most people responding negatively to it. what would be the issue in having to pay for it again? why not? |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:35:00 -
[116] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote:Something some of us seem to overlook with our give me give me attitudes. This is a free to play game we don't have to drop a cent on it. And ccp will still take our complaints and suggestions like we played 60$ for it. Now while we didn't or did pay for this game it does not take away from the fact that it cost $$$$$$$$$$$ to develop. And we will be getting two FREE expansions a year. What damn right do we have to complain about what they charge us or don't charge us for.... Simple fix don't buy it or don't play the free game. maybe your just one of those give me give me people i guess it's a free game ccp has to make money off it in some way. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:35:00 -
[117] - Quote
"Buy respecs for Aurum" is a system, one that you "almost" guaranteed. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:38:00 -
[118] - Quote
Never said there's an issue with paying for it, which there is and others have pointed it out already so I wont, but it is unlikely that CCP would sell respecs, and you should not be guaranteeing such things. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:41:00 -
[119] - Quote
NIKIA BETHUNE wrote: I can almost guarantee there will be some form of sp point reallocation... Didn't say reset just the ability to respend them. when? No idea but I will tell you this much it will not be free most likely will cost 1000-5000 aur. So just hold on its coming ccp needs to make money and this is a great way just wait a bit longer. read dummy read almost guarantee is a guess i have no real clue just wanted to talk about it. then i said il will not be free most likely meaning it mostly will not be free not saying it is not saying that it's not not saying anything really just talking and where in this is there a respec on the fly? go away troll your skill is still level 1 i'm beaten much better. |
NIKIA BETHUNE
Ill Omens
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 07:42:00 -
[120] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Never said there's an issue with paying for it, which there is and others have pointed it out already so I wont, but it is unlikely that CCP would sell respecs, and you should not be guaranteeing such things. your an idiot. i didn't guarantee a thing. you are too simple to understand debate. go back to bed. |
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