Gun play is the heart and soul of any FPS. Vehicles are added to give a little variety so things don't get boring

People actually play vanilla Ambush?

This is the fundamental disagreement behind this issue, I think. I'm a person that couldn't give a good gorram about "gun play". To me there are plenty of things other than assault rifles that contribute to the fun. In fact I find the circle-strafing and bunny-hopping of "gun play" to be moronic and unfun.

Which, whatever, everyone's idea of fun is different and all that after school special crap. But I'm not interested in being forced into that playstyle just because the people who like it won't adapt to mine.

This is the fundamental disagreement behind this issue, I think. I'm a person that couldn't give a good gorram about "gun play". To me there are plenty of things other than assault rifles that contribute to the fun. In fact I find the circle-strafing and bunny-hopping of "gun play" to be moronic and unfun.

Which, whatever, everyone's idea of fun is different and all that after school special crap. But I'm not interested in being forced into that playstyle just because the people who like it won't adapt to mine.

I hate bunny hopping. It is silly, unrealistic, and in no way a practical way to advance on an enemy while firing a weapon.

Same with side to side quick strafing. No one does this in reality, it is only in FPS's and I wish it too could die in New Eden.

I hate bunny hopping. It is silly, unrealistic, and in no way a practical way to advance on an enemy while firing a weapon.

Same with side to side quick strafing. No one does this in reality, it is only in FPS's and I wish it too could die in New Eden.

yea everyone should stand still like statues and shoot each other in the face until one dies. Sounds fun.

Eventually people will finish optimizing their primary fits and start skilling into their AV fits. Then the Tank dynamic will change a bit.

Because removing bunny hopping = standing still.

Go watch our military units (Seals, Recon, hell any unit at all) advance / retreat in combat. None of them jump up and down like morons while advancing and firing. Doing this is ridiculous, unrealistic, and would cause you to fall over due to recoil / losing your balance. It's stupid, and the only reason it exists is because the controls allow it. Just make it so you can either jump or fire. Not both.

Because removing bunny hopping = standing still.

Go watch our military units (Seals, Recon, hell any unit at all) advance / retreat in combat. None of them jump up and down like morons while advancing and firing. Doing this is ridiculous, unrealistic, and would cause you to fall over due to recoil / losing your balance. It's stupid, and the only reason it exists is because the controls allow it. Just make it so you can either jump or fire. Not both.

are you for real with this "real life" crap? In case you haven't noticed, this is a game. Want to play real life games join the army.

There's "suspension of disbelief for the sake of balance" and there's "completely immersion breakingly ridiculous." Dropsuits and spaceships and giant lasers from the sky fall into the former category because, while impossible, they at least fit into the theme of the universe where they're set. Circle-strafing and bunny-hopping are the latter, because they don't fit into any universe.

That said, I haven't the foggiest idea what would help to fix it. Cover mechanics don't work in a game where it takes this many bullets to die.

There's "suspension of disbelief for the sake of balance" and there's "completely immersion breakingly ridiculous." Dropsuits and spaceships and giant lasers from the sky fall into the former category because, while impossible, they at least fit into the theme of the universe where they're set. Circle-strafing and bunny-hopping are the latter, because they don't fit into any universe.

That said, I haven't the foggiest idea what would help to fix it. Cover mechanics don't work in a game where it takes this many bullets to die.

This is what I was trying to say, albeit poorly.

Future or not, bunny hopping is just ridiculous. And to say it isn't is just... wow.

bump! really interested to see a dev comment on this.

yea everyone should stand still like statues and shoot each other in the face until one dies. Sounds fun. Can't make the game too difficult for the scrubs.

I'm not an FPS player, there's no FPS for me to go back to. It's also largely transparent to me, since thank god DUST gives me the option of using vehicles pretty much exclusively. Then, behold, a thread pops up calling for infantry-only game modes. This translates to a game mode that all non AV infantry will use, because it's easy mode for them. So what happens to me and my dropship? I'm stuck either in infantry game mode with you ground pounders or in the vehicles mode with other HAVs and AV infantry. Given the extreme cost of vehicles it'd be impossible to support that playstyle with such a division. In other words, an infantry only game mode could very easily result in the obsolescence of vehicles outside of corp battles.

So, to pull a complete 180 and bring this topic back where it started, infantry only game modes are bad.

Nope. Don't turn Dust into Quake. Nor CS. Those were good games in their own right, but no.
Those games functioned the way they did because of the hardware limitations of their times. People made the best of it.

Comical bunny-hoping and strafing. Bullets coming at you, that you could "Neo" yourself around. That gameplay just doesn't match Dust, imo.

Imagine how pathetic it would look if you could do that to a tank... (Stupidity starts at 3:50, watch Solid Snake jog himself to a victory.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnVvOQ0VtDM

lol...
No infantry-only game modes, where they can go into their own little world and make ISK and SP from.
Who the hell would "realistically" issue a contract for that? lol
Doesn't fit the game.
Just make a Corp HQ arena, where folks can run around and fight their little ARs. Let them bet money on who would win.

...infantry-only game mode.... lol


Imagine, "I play Dust, but I only do infantry-only Ambush. because folks that use tanks and vehicles are gay."
The game would break, because now every AR user and his mom would run there for the sake of ease.

Bad move to make a game mode like this.

I know you probably are opposed to the idea as you most likely are one of the individuals who drops a tank at the start of an ambush knowing it will be nearly impossible for anyone to destroy you. Its fun for you, and I understand why you would not want to actually put your precious investment in any sort of danger, but it ruins the game mode for the rest of us.

Here we encounter fundamental issue #2 with this discussion: the myth of the invincible HAV. I do like that your mental image of me is that I'm just trololo-ing through the map mowing down enemy troops with impunity. I'm not going to bother pointing out how easy it is to kill a HAV with any reasonable amount of AV. You'd just say some crap about how you shouldn't have to deal with that. Let's instead talk about why vehicles are necessary.

You see, there are a lot of games out there, those crappy generic FPSes. Call of Duty, and all of its clones. You're more than welcome to those. You can be as infantry only as your heart desires there, because they're not like DUST. DUST is a sandbox. This will be especially true if (as I dearly hope) they implement an open world structure. Even if they don't, they've discussed in at least one video 5km by 5km maps and have hinted at internal tests of 64v64 players.

Can you imagine trying to fight on a 25 square kilometer map with only infantry? It'd take you fifteen minutes just to find one enemy. You're going to need vehicles to get around at that point. HAVs are going to be an important strategic piece in those games. At best you'll be shooting yourself in the foot by developing bad habits fighting without them. At worst you'll be stifling those game modes by channeling all the infantry into your silly infantry-only matches. Then we just have another Call of Duty clone.

TL;DR: this isn't Call of Duty, vehicles are here to stay and you're either going to have to deal with them or die to them.

No! That is a bad Movado.

Never add restrictions, if anything lift restrictions.

Sandbox games do not benefit from adding restrictions.

Is it such a big problem that people want an infantry only game mode??!!

No! That is a bad Movado.

Never add restrictions, if anything lift restrictions.

Sandbox games do not benefit from adding restrictions.

Here we encounter fundamental issue #2 with this discussion: the myth of the invincible HAV. I do like that your mental image of me is that I'm just trololo-ing through the map mowing down enemy troops with impunity. I'm not going to bother pointing out how easy it is to kill a HAV with any reasonable amount of AV. You'd just say some crap about how you shouldn't have to deal with that. Let's instead talk about why vehicles are necessary.

You see, there are a lot of games out there, those crappy generic FPSes. Call of Duty, and all of its clones. You're more than welcome to those. You can be as infantry only as your heart desires there, because they're not like DUST. DUST is a sandbox. This will be especially true if (as I dearly hope) they implement an open world structure. Even if they don't, they've discussed in at least one video 5km by 5km maps and have hinted at internal tests of 64v64 players.

Can you imagine trying to fight on a 25 square kilometer map with only infantry? It'd take you fifteen minutes just to find one enemy. You're going to need vehicles to get around at that point. HAVs are going to be an important strategic piece in those games. At best you'll be shooting yourself in the foot by developing bad habits fighting without them. At worst you'll be stifling those game modes by channeling all the infantry into your silly infantry-only matches. Then we just have another Call of Duty clone.

TL;DR: this isn't Call of Duty, vehicles are here to stay and you're either going to have to deal with them or die to them.

Well...there are people that specialize in only infantry stuff...

I don't understand why not have an only infantry ambush...what's the problem with having only gun on gun action and not worrying about some lame ass in an LAV running over people or some leet tanker with his buddies spamming tanks.

IIf we do get an infantry only mode I would enjoy if it removed Precision Strikes also. Just shooting people on foot. No insta-gibbing people with fire from the sky. It actually makes sense when there isn't an MCC around.

To people complaining that this is unfair or that doesn't work for me: This is a game based on war and pvp. Gaining the unfair advantage is entirely what those two things are about.

I grant you, almost no one starts off an ambush with av gear, but the second a tank starts raking in heads, people do actually bring it out. If you find that, after the tank is down, you are no longer useful, adapt. Try an smg, or forge sniping. Or, just go feed the other side a kill and spawn a new suit. It's not that hard.

For those who are complaining that they want an infantry experience: try playing without dropping some vehicles. You will get a boots on the ground experience. And, when you come up against armor, you will either run and cower, or you will get at it with some av.

If you can't adapt to a non-CoD type game, then go play something else. This is NOT CALL OF DUTY. Get over it.

People should have a choice in regards to what they want to play. Being a FPS, infantry vs infantry is CORE gameplay. Nobody is saying tanks shouldn't be in the game. People like me are just asking for a infantry vs infantry game mode.

Just popping by to give Mavado my support in this. Mavado himself has been tanking for a long time, he knows what it's like to bring a tank into an ambush and mop up. He knows how one sided it gets. Newberries have no chance, and have no supply depots to even get that chance if they knew what to do. Experienced players are punished for coming into a firefight with anti infantry weapons when someone pulls out a tank and there are no supply depots.

Either make vanilla IO or start streaming supply depot installations for deployment so we can defend ourselves.

Keep it up Mavado. *tips hat*

~Overlord.

I'm sorry, but it's not so easy for some of us to "bring in AV". You see, when I started playing dust, I speced into more infantry-sentric roles, never believing that an entire team could be completely and utterly obliterated by one or two guys in tanks. Now its too late, and i'm stuck with my militia swarm launcher.

I'm sorry, but it's not so easy for some of us to "bring in AV". You see, when I started playing dust, I speced into more infantry-sentric roles, never believing that an entire team could be completely and utterly obliterated by one or two guys in tanks. Now its too late, and i'm stuck with my militia swarm launcher.

It's too late to buy a Militia Heavy and a Militia Forge Gun?
It's too late to earn more SP and invest some into AV?

How?

Fit AV Grenades alongside that Swarm Launcher and you have an effective anti-armour AV fitting. Add Flux Grenades and you have a decent setup for shield tanks and a surprisingly powerful loadout against armour.

Bring a Heavy with a Forge Gun - even an all-Miliita fitting with no SP investment, and you can use a weapon with more balanced effectiveness against both shields and armour.

There isn't a permanent "no more than X" cap on the amount of SP you can earn for your character. You can keep earning SP and expand your skillset to cover another possible threat.