DUST Search - [Feedback] HMG Range [Edited for Risk vs Reward]

xXl DeathDealer lXx wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

J Lav wrote:

BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out.

Indeed, they're like spitballs at a range. The weapon really only shines in CQC, but that doesn't mean it should be forced into CQC; they still make great cover fire at larger distances.

Edit: If they add bullet drop, instead of these magic disappearing bullets, then we can talk about range nerfs.

They are not inaccurate. I hop in game and pick people off enough times to know that they are anything but inaccurate. Slap level one sharpshooter on it, gun spins up nice and fast, everything gets pinpoint accurate and you guys know this.You all typing these comments like the game don't have skill to increase accuracy, come one now. Played a couple of games with the gun and shut teams down. Me and two other heavies running things so well that the opposing team can't even leave their spawn, ridiculous. I'm not boasting here, just trying to give you guys a picture of how OP the class really is. I really don't think that it is the weapon nerf is the answer. The class has way to much armor. 650 armor and then you have the shield as well. I lose gun battles to heavies not because of the weapon advantage, but because of the armor advantage. Hit the guy with an entire clip of a high level rifle and his armor pretty much not affected. Then he kills me with the reload or he takes cover and we continue this until I eventually die from lack of armor or being ganged up on by reinforcements. I honestly feel that everyone who protects the class are just fanboys of the class and are trying to protect their advantage in the game. I challenge any one to got and do the homework on this class (armor and weapon damage). Then play with this class and compare it to your gameplay with other classes. I have a 10 year old nephew who goes without dying in matches and gets the top spot with the heavy drop suit class. He's good, but not that good. Its the drop suit class and everyone who plays with it knows this.Sad how people are fighting to keep this OP drop suit class when it is things like this that keeps games from being awesome. This game has crazy potential, but you have to have balanced weapon guys. That is like FPS, or any shooter for that matter, 101.

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Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 165	Posted - 2013.02.18 17:24:00 - [1] - Quote Edit: I changed my mind about how HMG Heavies should be balanced. I now think we should leave them as they are, but increase the War Points awarded for a Heavy kill to +80, and +40 for an assist. This is in keeping with the expense and power of their suits. Original post left to provide context for the responces. ************************************************************************ I hope that from such posts as GÇ£I know why I am dying so muchGÇ¥ that I have established a reputation for being someone who looks at the counters and balances to a weapon rather than immediately yelling for NerfGÇÖs for whatever weapon killed me last. I also hope that Heavies understand that I am trying to find that GÇ£lightGÇ¥ nerf that might preempt the GÇ£Nerf of the GodsGÇ¥ that many a slaughtered blueberry has been calling for. At close to near-mid rang I think that HMG Heavies should rule. It should take 3 assault troops, or specialised tools such as grenades, a Laser Riffle, Grenade Launcher, or Shotgun to take them out. However, I donGÇÖt think a squad of nothing but HMG Heavies should be effective accept in an urban environment. For a HMG Heavy to be effective on a more open map they should be teamed up with someone sporting an Assault Riffle, Laser Riffle, or Sniper to cover more distant threats. For a HMG to be able to go head to head with an Assault riffle at maximum Assault riffle range means that the supposed weakness of range which was meant to balance the HMG against other weapons does not exist. (Range is not providing a balance currently.) On the Ashland map I have seen squads of Heavies who can cover the full length of a street. We tried to avoid the Heavies, as this is one of the stratagems which is supposed to work against Heavies, but they were able to find good fields of fire to counter us wherever we went, without having to move very far themselves. So with such range mobility is not serving to balance the HMG. (Mobility is not providing enough of a balance currently, due to range.) I prepose a reduction of HMG maximum range by 10m (leave optimum range alone), or an increase in dispersions beyond a certain distance to reduce their long range damage. If facing an assault riffle at maximum assault riffle range a HMG Heavy should either have to get closer, or take cover. Or they should have someone with a long range weapon along to lay down cover fire while they get close. Currently HMG Heavies are performing beyond the role they were meant to play. This can be seen by the ever increasing number of people playing heavies and the consistently high KD ratios of even new and inexperienced HMG Heavies. It is my belief that a minor range nerf would bring balance to this role without undermining itGÇÖs core strengths. It would also encourage HMG Heavies to work with other roles to be most effective.
YourDeadAgain76 Red Star. 133	Posted - 2013.02.18 19:57:00 - [2] - Quote Nope Heavy and HMG are fine. Nerf the scout suit. and the shotty. OMG
Sgt Kirk ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2013.02.18 19:59:00 - [3] - Quote Rang
Coleman Gray Coalition Of Goverments 47	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:01:00 - [4] - Quote have you seen the heavy weapon sharpshooter skills? infact the sharpshooter skills on anyweapon makes that weapon incredibly danagerous at range, hence why shotguns are sick, they benefit rom the range increase
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:02:00 - [5] - Quote I really wish people would wait for **** like the scrambler rifle and flaylock pistol before clamoring for nerfs... I mean, we're in Beta and we haven't even seen Amarr/Minmatar vehicles yet - let alone racial dropsuits/weaponry. Can we just knock it off until we see everything this game has to offer? Please?
J Lav Lost-Legion 28	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:38:00 - [6] - Quote Nope, this is just not a good reason for a nerf to this. The mere idea of a minigun having a lower magical cut off range than an assault rifle is in itself ridiculous. For proof consider that I've gotten the jump on an assault from med-close range, above him, and he still GEK'd my face off due to his skill for headshotting me. At the moment, the Assault suit is the most powerful setup in this game for WP accumulation, Heavies have to kill in order to get WP. There just isn't anything else for them to do but spray death. Do yourself a favour and create an alt heavy, and see how "easy" it is to actually get paid as a heavy.
Rachoi HavoK Core 17	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:56:00 - [7] - Quote J Lav wrote: Nope, this is just not a good reason for a nerf to this. The mere idea of a minigun having a lower magical cut off range than an assault rifle is in itself ridiculous. For proof consider that I've gotten the jump on an assault from med-close range, above him, and he still GEK'd my face off due to his skill for headshotting me. At the moment, the Assault suit is the most powerful setup in this game for WP accumulation, Heavies have to kill in order to get WP. There just isn't anything else for them to do but spray death. Do yourself a favour and create an alt heavy, and see how "easy" it is to actually get paid as a heavy. hah... i've done this, i've seen this, but i think his point still stands. i've been running into Heavies that will use the HMG jsut to deny spawning on some maps in skirmish, due to there only being a safe spot to spawn on the MCC when forced back. also, an Assault Rifle should still SLIGHTLY outrange an HMG, so shrinking the HMG max range doesnt sound bad... since you heavies still keep the raw meatchunking power, jsut gotta get a little bit closer
Crimson Moon V Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 187	Posted - 2013.02.18 22:05:00 - [8] - Quote J Lav wrote: Nope, this is just not a good reason for a nerf to this. The mere idea of a minigun having a lower magical cut off range than an assault rifle is in itself ridiculous. For proof consider that I've gotten the jump on an assault from med-close range, above him, and he still GEK'd my face off due to his skill for headshotting me. At the moment, the Assault suit is the most powerful setup in this game for WP accumulation, Heavies have to kill in order to get WP. There just isn't anything else for them to do but spray death. Do yourself a favour and create an alt heavy, and see how "easy" it is to actually get paid as a heavy. I made a heavy alt the other day. 6 kdr after about 4 hours of playing. HMG is easy mode.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2013.02.18 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw.
Meeko Fent Kinsho Swords Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:12:00 - [10] - Quote I really want to say, "NERF THE HEAVEH!", but that would unbalance the game. I to die whenever I see a Heavy with HMG, but that's the point of a Heavy. To be a Bullet Sponge with a Temper. They're the only ones able to use the Heavy Weapons for a reason. If heavies are putting a damper on your day, get a PSN Buddy to get DUST and work with each other. 2 Assaults can take a Heavy. One thing that I do feel is not quite even is the Forge Gun. One- Shotting a Tank? Killing a tank In 2 shots seems more balanced, and to even it again, make the charging time on the Forge quicker.

Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:40:00 - [11] - Quote I don't believe that heavies perform well at range. They can upgrade their sharpshooter to lvl 5 but other players can do the same to their assault rifles as well. I prefer to see heavy suits running across a long path more than lighter suits. They're easier to hit most of the time.
The Loathing The Southern Legion 21	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:45:00 - [12] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw. Can't say I agree with the 1v1 comment. I've run with many a heavy who just have to turn and shoot with very little care to the damage they are taking. Most of our heavies will plow thru 4 or 5 in a row easy before they start yelling Medic. I don't necessarily think the OP is right by nerfing range, but the HMG probably needs a slight weakness in SOME area.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:57:00 - [13] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: One thing that I do feel is not quite even is the Forge Gun. One- Shotting a Tank? Killing a tank In 2 shots seems more balanced, and to even it again, make the charging time on the Forge quicker. Hold on a sec. Where's this forge gun you found that can one-shot a tank? Because I want one. Actually, a proto breach might be able to one-shot the militia fits. Is that what you're talking about?
J Lav Lost-Legion 28	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:58:00 - [14] - Quote Crimson Moon V wrote: J Lav wrote: Nope, this is just not a good reason for a nerf to this. The mere idea of a minigun having a lower magical cut off range than an assault rifle is in itself ridiculous. For proof consider that I've gotten the jump on an assault from med-close range, above him, and he still GEK'd my face off due to his skill for headshotting me. At the moment, the Assault suit is the most powerful setup in this game for WP accumulation, Heavies have to kill in order to get WP. There just isn't anything else for them to do but spray death. Do yourself a favour and create an alt heavy, and see how "easy" it is to actually get paid as a heavy. I made a heavy alt the other day. 6 kdr after about 4 hours of playing. HMG is easy mode. I think that's just about right though. When running heavy you should be able to mow down, but in the end, you'll see that I can still get paid more, get more SP and get more WP as a smart Logi or Assault player than a dedicated heavy. It's the heavies job to stay alive and own face. Taking that away and you just can't make money with them. It's only "easy mode" when killing, but killing doesn't make you more powerful or successful to your team (see snipers who sit at the side shooting 23-0 without ever supporting their team, there are good ones, so no blanket here). I tend to think the HMG is about right where it is, but YES I agree that it's max range with perks shouldn't exceed the max range of an assault rifle. BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 130	Posted - 2013.02.19 00:01:00 - [15] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw. Thats dumb, okay then buff the AR to 100 dmg ps and make it close range only..AR has been nerfed enough hmg range is a bit much you know thats true
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.19 00:04:00 - [16] - Quote J Lav wrote: BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out. Indeed, they're like spitballs at a range. The weapon really only shines in CQC, but that doesn't mean it should be forced into CQC; they still make great cover fire at larger distances. Edit: If they add bullet drop, instead of these magic disappearing bullets, then we can talk about range nerfs.
xXl DeathDealer lXx Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.02.19 00:57:00 - [17] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: J Lav wrote: BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out. Indeed, they're like spitballs at a range. The weapon really only shines in CQC, but that doesn't mean it should be forced into CQC; they still make great cover fire at larger distances. Edit: If they add bullet drop, instead of these magic disappearing bullets, then we can talk about range nerfs. They are not inaccurate. I hop in game and pick people off enough times to know that they are anything but inaccurate. Slap level one sharpshooter on it, gun spins up nice and fast, everything gets pinpoint accurate and you guys know this.You all typing these comments like the game don't have skill to increase accuracy, come one now. Played a couple of games with the gun and shut teams down. Me and two other heavies running things so well that the opposing team can't even leave their spawn, ridiculous. I'm not boasting here, just trying to give you guys a picture of how OP the class really is. I really don't think that it is the weapon nerf is the answer. The class has way to much armor. 650 armor and then you have the shield as well. I lose gun battles to heavies not because of the weapon advantage, but because of the armor advantage. Hit the guy with an entire clip of a high level rifle and his armor pretty much not affected. Then he kills me with the reload or he takes cover and we continue this until I eventually die from lack of armor or being ganged up on by reinforcements. I honestly feel that everyone who protects the class are just fanboys of the class and are trying to protect their advantage in the game. I challenge any one to got and do the homework on this class (armor and weapon damage). Then play with this class and compare it to your gameplay with other classes. I have a 10 year old nephew who goes without dying in matches and gets the top spot with the heavy drop suit class. He's good, but not that good. Its the drop suit class and everyone who plays with it knows this.Sad how people are fighting to keep this OP drop suit class when it is things like this that keeps games from being awesome. This game has crazy potential, but you have to have balanced weapon guys. That is like FPS, or any shooter for that matter, 101.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.19 01:03:00 - [18] - Quote The heavy is a beginner friendly class, I can't argue that, but at higher skill levels heavies start to lose. The class is supposed to be easy to use, but it's hard to actually master it.
Meeko Fent Kinsho Swords Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.02.19 01:06:00 - [19] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: One thing that I do feel is not quite even is the Forge Gun. One- Shotting a Tank? Killing a tank In 2 shots seems more balanced, and to even it again, make the charging time on the Forge quicker. Hold on a sec. Where's this forge gun you found that can one-shot a tank? Because I want one. Actually, a proto breach might be able to one-shot the militia fits. Is that what you're talking about? Well, considering i was using Militia Junk, this statement may have been what I meant. One day in a beautifully destroyed DUST Battle, I had me a tank, and then a Heavy rounded the corner and Blew me up in one shot.
Kriegs son Jaeger Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.02.19 01:18:00 - [20] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: J Lav wrote: BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out. Indeed, they're like spitballs at a range. The weapon really only shines in CQC, but that doesn't mean it should be forced into CQC; they still make great cover fire at larger distances. Edit: If they add bullet drop, instead of these magic disappearing bullets, then we can talk about range nerfs. I don't know about bullet drop, but frankly it is pretty damn silly that our bullets simply dissapear in midair. In my own experience the burst HMG simply can't do damage at ranges of about 20 meters or so, and being the most accurate of the lot off the bat I imagine the other HMG's don't fare much better. Damage reduction should come from immense spread at range, not magical damage dropoff causing lethal projectiles to turn into moist wads of paper a few feet beyond a set distance.

Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.19 01:23:00 - [21] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Well, considering i was using Militia Junk, this statement may have been what I meant. One day in a beautifully destroyed DUST Battle, I had me a tank, and then a Heavy rounded the corner and Blew me up in one shot. How much HP does your militia tank run, exactly?
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2013.02.19 02:08:00 - [22] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw. Thats dumb, okay then buff the AR to 100 dmg ps and make it close range only..AR has been nerfed enough hmg range is a bit much you know thats true HMG range is total crap. Maybe people using HMGs are training Heavy Sharpshooter to offset their weaknesses and the average Assault Arse hasn't been keeping pace. Also, 100 DPS for the Assault Rifle would actually be a nerf. they do 30~ damage a shot and at least five shots a second.
BLACKST4R WarRavens 1	Posted - 2013.02.19 02:33:00 - [23] - Quote I believe the problem with range is that bullets do not "jump" out of the crosshair at certain ranges, I can hip fire fairly well at long ranges as long as I am not moving.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.02.19 02:43:00 - [24] - Quote -1
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.19 02:55:00 - [25] - Quote BLACKST4R wrote: I believe the problem with range is that bullets do not "jump" out of the crosshair at certain ranges, I can hip fire fairly well at long ranges as long as I am not moving. HMGs do not receive an accuracy bonus for aiming down their sights. All fire is Hip Fire.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.19 04:47:00 - [26] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw. Thats dumb, okay then buff the AR to 100 dmg ps and make it close range only..AR has been nerfed enough hmg range is a bit much you know thats true Are you shitting me? You realize how badly the HMG was nerfed before it got brought back up to this point? Quit your QQing and learn to use a Shotgun if it bothers you so damn much.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.19 04:50:00 - [27] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: You nerf the HMG's range, you should nerf the AR and Sniper as well. As for HMG being 'easy mode' it is only better for one v one. In the current environment of run-n-gun idiocy and all the lone wolf quote-un-quote 'badasses' the HMG eats them like a particularly unfulfilling snack, dumping the waste into the forums to QQ for a nerf or blue. Run in squads fools, it is why we have them. Do not close on the Heavy, he is a big target so you don't HAVE to close distance. Its all very well set, if you just impartially look at it. I'm a Logi, btw. Thats dumb, okay then buff the AR to 100 dmg ps and make it close range only..AR has been nerfed enough hmg range is a bit much you know thats true HMG range is total crap. Maybe people using HMGs are training Heavy Sharpshooter to offset their weaknesses and the average Assault Arse hasn't been keeping pace. Also, 100 DPS for the Assault Rifle would actually be a nerf. they do 30~ damage a shot and at least five shots a second. 750 RPM divided by 60 = 12.5 shots per second. I once argued that the AR should have less bullets in the magazine (to encourage specialization into other, more skill intensive weapons) but god forbid anyone break away from the staples that are keeping this game patched together. Honestly, if people would just stop holding still for the Heavy to just waste them with the HMG - there would be a lot less of these threads. I'm just saying, the son of a ***** can't move out of the way of a TANK going full speed; he's sure as hell not going to catch your ass. Because FPS gamers don't know terminology like "cover" and "tactical retreat"
Rachoi HavoK Core 17	Posted - 2013.02.19 04:55:00 - [28] - Quote oh both sides need to chill.. everything in the game still needs tweaks and changes, AR needs to be left be, but the HMG needs a SLIGHT adjustments in base range... maybe the LR could get a boost in max range.. that would be interesting to see
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.19 06:31:00 - [29] - Quote As an HMG wielder I can tell you this for a fact. For me to get anywhere near matching the raw AR range, I have to put two levels in heavy weapon sharpshooter and use the assault HMG that has reduced damage. So yes, I can reach across that street and touch you with my HMG, but not an anywhere near the accuracy and damage potential of a closer target. And I still get out ranged by an AR with one level in Light Weapon Sharpshooter.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 81	Posted - 2013.02.19 08:33:00 - [30] - Quote xXl DeathDealer lXx wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: J Lav wrote: BUT they're so inaccurate that I think this balances it out. Indeed, they're like spitballs at a range. The weapon really only shines in CQC, but that doesn't mean it should be forced into CQC; they still make great cover fire at larger distances. Edit: If they add bullet drop, instead of these magic disappearing bullets, then we can talk about range nerfs. They are not inaccurate. I hop in game and pick people off enough times to know that they are anything but inaccurate. Slap level one sharpshooter on it, gun spins up nice and fast, everything gets pinpoint accurate and you guys know this.You all typing these comments like the game don't have skill to increase accuracy, come one now. Played a couple of games with the gun and shut teams down. Me and two other heavies running things so well that the opposing team can't even leave their spawn, ridiculous. I'm not boasting here, just trying to give you guys a picture of how OP the class really is. I really don't think that it is the weapon nerf is the answer. The class has way to much armor. 650 armor and then you have the shield as well. I lose gun battles to heavies not because of the weapon advantage, but because of the armor advantage. Hit the guy with an entire clip of a high level rifle and his armor pretty much not affected. Then he kills me with the reload or he takes cover and we continue this until I eventually die from lack of armor or being ganged up on by reinforcements. I honestly feel that everyone who protects the class are just fanboys of the class and are trying to protect their advantage in the game. I challenge any one to got and do the homework on this class (armor and weapon damage). Then play with this class and compare it to your gameplay with other classes. I have a 10 year old nephew who goes without dying in matches and gets the top spot with the heavy drop suit class. He's good, but not that good. Its the drop suit class and everyone who plays with it knows this.Sad how people are fighting to keep this OP drop suit class when it is things like this that keeps games from being awesome. This game has crazy potential, but you have to have balanced weapon guys. That is like FPS, or any shooter for that matter, 101. Firstly yes we have an armour advantage were heavies for christ sake , what do you want us to be wearing cheese cloth shirts and waving sponge batts at you . Heavies arnt op your just putting yourself in stupid situations like being face to face with a heavy then coming on here complaining that they have too much armour and their hmg is too tough poor you .



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