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Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 21:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Yes, I was replying to Sleepy Zan's comment on hmg.
Scout was better in olf builds, but still can do things assault can't. It does need small buff though, it's advantages are less then drawbacks at moment. That an assault can do everything better seems like hyperbole to me, assault is stronger in most roles though. Most of scout benefits don't show on paper well.
A buff to strafe speed is all that is needed, less then e3 of course. Although much of the e3 problems with scout were from poor hit detection and lag rather then inherent in the suit. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
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Posted - 2013.02.15 21:41:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Multi-barrel cannon are built to allow a more sustained and higher rate of fire. A cannon with single barrel could match the rate of fire we have, so the only reason to have the multiple barrels seems to be to allow longer sustained fire.
The gyro system would suggest this is intent as well.
Modern rotary cannon can spin up vary quickly and are accurate. M61A2 has 1/4 sec spin up time. Gau-8 has accuracy to place 80% of burst in 7 1/2" circle at 50 yards. So realistically, the accuracy should be high enough to fire a long burst of head shots till overheat at max damage after .25sec. Heavy machine guns are also effective at much longer ranges then sniper rifles, why snipers used scoped hmg to snipe at extreme range till anti-material rifles were available.
Only cause of increasing inaccuracy in rotary fired sustained, is warping from heat. So the heat meter would have to cool before start of next burst for initial accuracy. the high mass of rotary cannon and high rate of fire make the recoil and muzzle rise less of a factor in accuracy.
In game, a hmg that spun up would conserve ammo while walking to target if, adjusting aim by tracer. And the effective range of burst would be longer, since the spread would be less initially. it would be harder for ar to pick off heavy at range.
If we had an option for a rotary with a spool up and constant accuracy as a variant, yeah more variety. The way mechanism of hmg is described, it would work the way it does in game.
We will defy reality for balancing purposes like we always do. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
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Posted - 2013.02.15 21:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Yes, I was replying to Sleepy Zan's comment on hmg.
A'hhh, I was as confused lol
But Sleepy's right, HMGs are the way they are for balancing purposes. What I would give to be able to hit those damn snipers from their range |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 09:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
I pointed game balance out as well. If the hmg was changed to more modern type rotary cannon (spool up), it would be a buff(clearly not needed) to hmg.
There is no reason for accuracy to decrease for realism sake, only game balance. The current system is more realistic then decreasing accuracy, real rotary would have constant accuracy till barrel warps from heat. The gyro stabilizer makes sense, and would give behavior found in game. Real bullets fly farther of course, but range limit is clearly needed.
So, I was saying the hmg as it is now is fine, and just as realistic as the more common spool up first type. A spool up type without gyro would be a nice variant, but hmg mechanic is fine as is. Any balancing should just tweak numbers, not general pattern.
Same with scout, concept is fine but may need small tweaks. Speed, stamina, cpu/pg, and sensor/stealth being area that could be tweaked. I would wait to change though, scout is suppose to be an ewar specialist as well and we have no ewar modules in game yet.
Any more then small buff should wait for these mods, or it could be op once added then over-nerfed. Wait while underpowered is better then a buff-nerf-buff-nerf yo-yo. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 09:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sleepy Zan quote
Quote: HMGs need a slight spin time before firing and to start out at the most accurate and loose accuracy as they fire, so in order to get the longer range shots it's more effective to fire in burst This was what I was referring to. Hmg as is is fine for balance and just as realistic as the spool up type rotary cannon (gatling guns are crank operated, motorized version are rotary cannons)
Reducing shots fired early on would just help conserve ammo/heat buildup while walking tracers to target and if stabilizer is kept reduce ammo fired while inaccurate. So no spool up for game balance. Burst fire with rotary is both unrealistic and not needed for balance, other then burst variant of course. |
The Black Art
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 10:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Multi-barrel cannon are built to allow a more sustained and higher rate of fire. A cannon with single barrel could match the rate of fire we have, so the only reason to have the multiple barrels seems to be to allow longer sustained fire.
The gyro system would suggest this is intent as well.
Modern rotary cannon can spin up vary quickly and are accurate. M61A2 has 1/4 sec spin up time. Gau-8 has accuracy to place 80% of burst in 7 1/2" circle at 50 yards. So realistically, the accuracy should be high enough to fire a long burst of head shots till overheat at max damage after .25sec. Heavy machine guns are also effective at much longer ranges then sniper rifles, why snipers used scoped hmg to snipe at extreme range till anti-material rifles were available.
Only cause of increasing inaccuracy in rotary fired sustained, is warping from heat. So the heat meter would have to cool before start of next burst for initial accuracy. the high mass of rotary cannon and high rate of fire make the recoil and muzzle rise less of a factor in accuracy.
In game, a hmg that spun up would conserve ammo while walking to target if, adjusting aim by tracer. And the effective range of burst would be longer, since the spread would be less initially. it would be harder for ar to pick off heavy at range.
If we had an option for a rotary with a spool up and constant accuracy as a variant, yeah more variety. The way mechanism of hmg is described, it would work the way it does in game.
I just wanna play video games man |
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 10:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Multi-barrel cannon are built to allow a more sustained and higher rate of fire. A cannon with single barrel could match the rate of fire we have, so the only reason to have the multiple barrels seems to be to allow longer sustained fire.
The gyro system would suggest this is intent as well.
Modern rotary cannon can spin up vary quickly and are accurate. M61A2 has 1/4 sec spin up time. Gau-8 has accuracy to place 80% of burst in 7 1/2" circle at 50 yards. So realistically, the accuracy should be high enough to fire a long burst of head shots till overheat at max damage after .25sec. Heavy machine guns are also effective at much longer ranges then sniper rifles, why snipers used scoped hmg to snipe at extreme range till anti-material rifles were available.
Only cause of increasing inaccuracy in rotary fired sustained, is warping from heat. So the heat meter would have to cool before start of next burst for initial accuracy. the high mass of rotary cannon and high rate of fire make the recoil and muzzle rise less of a factor in accuracy.
In game, a hmg that spun up would conserve ammo while walking to target if, adjusting aim by tracer. And the effective range of burst would be longer, since the spread would be less initially. it would be harder for ar to pick off heavy at range.
If we had an option for a rotary with a spool up and constant accuracy as a variant, yeah more variety. The way mechanism of hmg is described, it would work the way it does in game.
Ten-Sidhe wrote:I pointed game balance out as well. If the hmg was changed to more modern type rotary cannon (spool up), it would be a buff(clearly not needed) to hmg.
There is no reason for accuracy to decrease for realism sake, only game balance. The current system is more realistic then decreasing accuracy, real rotary would have constant accuracy till barrel warps from heat. The gyro stabilizer makes sense, and would give behavior found in game. Real bullets fly farther of course, but range limit is clearly needed.
So, I was saying the hmg as it is now is fine, and just as realistic as the more common spool up first type. A spool up type without gyro would be a nice variant, but hmg mechanic is fine as is. Any balancing should just tweak numbers, not general pattern.
Same with scout, concept is fine but may need small tweaks. Speed, stamina, cpu/pg, and sensor/stealth being area that could be tweaked. I would wait to change though, scout is suppose to be an ewar specialist as well and we have no ewar modules in game yet.
Any more then small buff should wait for these mods, or it could be op once added then over-nerfed. Wait while underpowered is better then a buff-nerf-buff-nerf yo-yo. This is what I like to see. +1
As to any nerf/buffs, my view is the same as above, there's a new expansion coming with alot of changes in it, especially to dropsuits, and I'd wait till then before looking for changes.
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XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 10:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
It's nice knowing I have the weakest suit and is irrelevant. Yet another challenge I put on myself only to overcome. |
Imp Smash
On The Brink
51
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 10:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
ZiwZih wrote:Propaganda. At least our women are pretty and we have smallest... hit-boxes.
I don't think many people got it. I liked the joke though. +1 sexy time humor
Also, aren't scouts going to get camo implemented in the future? |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 10:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:ZiwZih wrote:Propaganda. At least our women are pretty and we have smallest... hit-boxes. I don't think many people got it. I liked the joke though. +1 sexy time humor Also, aren't scouts going to get camo implemented in the future?
Bring us stealth suits please |
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Himiko Kuronaga
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:C Saunders wrote:Technical-Support wrote: It has already been confirmed that the female/male hitboxes are the same.
I think CCP lied to us. They didnt, stop acting craz, it's a video game it's made out of math. They are the same, deal with it you wierdo.
CCP has been known to math wrong. |
Kreigs Jaeger
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:ZiwZih wrote:Propaganda. At least our women are pretty and we have smallest... hit-boxes. I don't think many people got it. I liked the joke though. +1 sexy time humor Also, aren't scouts going to get camo implemented in the future?
Its on the fluff that they have some form of adaptive camo, and not just electronic. So I should hope so. Personally I would like something like how the octo-suit was implemented in metal gear solid. IE camo that adapts to whatever surface you are nearest to, rather than light bending camo (predator). |
ugg reset
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 01:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
Yes, all other suits have much better DEF. But scouts will all ways have this going for them. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
172
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 01:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Oh you were shooting? I'm sorry, I was too busy frolicking around to notice. Nice effort though! |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
211
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 01:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Depends. Scout allows skilled players to freely move around the map, and their survival is based on knowing how to use terrain to their advantage and aiming well. I can beat most ADV Assault suits easily right now in my A-series.
yes but you could do far better in an advanced assault, hell even a STD assault, scouts need more speed, then they will be fine. |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 02:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Been using the scout suit lately in my dual scrambler fit and honestly I've come to like the suit very much. Yes the armor is paper thin, but if you are using the suit right you will kill them before they even notice you. Also this suit is crazy fast and and jump some gaps that no other suit could. Plus you can easily retreat out of sight/range when someone does notice you.
But hey, if you guys are in favor of giving it a buff I'm down for that |
Syther Shadows
CowTek
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
scout suits
get the suit with the most mid slots you can and attach the thingy that decreases the time till your shields charge
passive/speed tanking |
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