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dabest2evadoit7
Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Revenant Order
35
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Posted - 2013.02.09 15:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mister0Zz wrote:this is why i hate k/d the time it takes to bleed out is immense, but because of this stupid chestbeating stat people know that they still counted as a death, and that if they respawn it would be better for their stats, but this is bad for the team. If you give me a second i WILL clear your body before reviving you, but you dont care, you'd rather pad a meaningless stat. That sound great and I would love if everyone was like you, however just like there is stat whores there are those who only care about there wp. They will actually run out with like 5 guys shooting at them just to get the revive points. They live cause they're at full health while you take an unnecessary death. What about the sniper that watches this go down and will drop you successfully till he has to reload. I am good, I will pass. Cause I know at the end of a game everyone is looking at those stats to see who put in work and who was a deadbeat. Unless your playing side by side with a player all you have is their to see what kind of player they are. |
Mister0Zz
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
31
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:Mister0Zz wrote:this is why i hate k/d the time it takes to bleed out is immense, but because of this stupid chestbeating stat people know that they still counted as a death, and that if they respawn it would be better for their stats, but this is bad for the team. If you give me a second i WILL clear your body before reviving you, but you dont care, you'd rather pad a meaningless stat. That sound great and I would love if everyone was like you, however just like there is stat whores there are those who only care about there wp. They will actually run out with like 5 guys shooting at them just to get the revive points. They live cause they're at full health while you take an unnecessary death. What about the sniper that watches this go down and will drop you successfully till he has to reload. I am good, I will pass. Cause I know at the end of a game everyone is looking at those stats to see who put in work and who was a deadbeat. Unless your playing side by side with a player all you have is their to see what kind of player they are. there should be a statistic that shows the average life of people you revive, or a reward of 2 wp for everything the revived guy does with his suit. That way Logibro's would be encouraged to try and keep large groups of people alive in order to get the collective sp rather than simply rewarding the revive action
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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
I've done that. Revive people while there's still a firefight going on. I do it because it resets the bleed-out timer, giving me more time to open the area up to more permanently revive them. Not that the +60 WP isn't a nice bonus on top of that. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
The KDR is only one measure of a players ability, and is only relevant for certain roles in certain game modes.
It's a great way to measure the Assault role in straight up TDM, but completely inadequate at measuring a pilot flying a dropship in an objective match.
KDR has been elevated in importance due to the limited roles and modes in the most popular FPS's of the past several years, but DUST seeks to break out of that constraining mold and should therefore de-emphasize the statistic. It should instead track statistics that encourage the type of game play that the developers want to see. After all, what you measure is what you get.
If the KDR is enshrined as the statistic every player is measured by, then DUST will be played just like all the other FPS's and all the ground breaking features ignored if they don't contribute to a great KDR. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2013.02.09 16:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Definitely agree.....the death should definitely be refunded if you're rezzed |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
I've run 0/7 in Ambush, had the highest WP count, and half the team sent me messages of thanks after the match. It's sad to know that some of the more mindless killers out there would have sent me insults instead if the team had lost. I've had a match where I ran 6/7 and had the top WP, and a guy with 20/3 sent me hatemail calling me a "hacker" because there's no way I beat him when I was playing so badly. Which is hilarious, because I spent more than half the match healing him, and the few times he died, he always had a safe place to spawn because of me, and when he was yelling that he was out of ammo, I'm the one who came running to help him out.
In saying that, K/D isn't a meaningless stat. NO moreso than ALL stats are meaningless in the current state of the beta anyway. At the moment, NOTHING makes any practical difference, and there are too many variables to judge the relevance of any stats to how someone performs. In time though, when stats are actually worth considering, K/D will matter. It's only relevant to a certain point though. It matters, but it isn't the ONLY thing that matters.. You need SOME players with good K/D on your team, or you WILL lose even if you're playing the objective, because you can control 80% of the battlefield and still lose by clone count in Skirmish. But even in Ambush, a few good players who DON'T focus on K/D can turn the tide of a battle in your team's favour. Ambush generally needs more good killers, and Skirmish generally needs more player focusing on the objectives, and both modes benefit from players who are good at performing both roles - either at the same time or switching from one to the other.
But back to the ACTUAL topic of the thread, I agree with how the game works. When they implement some form of incentive for winning a battle, even the K/D hunters will start to realise that clone count sometimes matters more than your K/D. Not always, but enough that it's worth considering as a factor when you're respawning. If you get killed, there's almost always a reason for it, and a medic coming over and saving you doesn't (and shouldn't, imo) negate the fact that you died. Whether the other guy outplayed you, or you screwed up, or got outnumbered, or simply had bad luck, you died. Your death doesn't magically go away because someone came along and let you keep your gear. If you're using a quality fitting, that's probably going to mean it was expensive, and you'll need to carefully weigh up the importance of K/D against the importance of replacement costs. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.10 13:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
How about looking at it from another angle, are you really dead? Your laying on the ground you can see, you can set off remote explosives and you can make a choice to wait for aid or tapout, so I could say your actually injured not dead and therefore it should not count as a death until you tap out.
And I think its funny how this KDR argument spawned from a simple problem, stupid medics who revive without clearing the body or intentionally revive ppl they know will get killed again so they can get some points, its funny that people that worry about KDR are arseholes who ruin the game but medics that will repeatedly do **** revives to ***** points are "being team players who win the battle!"
I recognize the importance of all the roles on the battlefield but even a medic can kill people with his AR in between his duties and going 0 kills with high WP doesn't make you an awesome medic it more often than not means you were holding your triage tool on someone with full health when you should have been shooting, or running along with your needle out instead of your rifle. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.02.10 13:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:I recognize the importance of all the roles on the battlefield but even a medic can kill people with his AR in between his duties and going 0 kills with high WP doesn't make you an awesome medic it more often than not means you were holding your triage tool on someone with full health when you should have been shooting, or running along with your needle out instead of your rifle. Since this is obviously directed at my comment, I'll explain further. I was the squad's designated CQC guy, but our longer-range weapons were killing everything before they got into my effective range, so I was only really providing enough supporting fire to earn occasional Assists with my SMG, and never actually seeing anyone close enough to get a Kill. I wasn't permanently repairing, I was earning WPs from Uplinks, repairs (where NEEDED, not just spamming repair because I can) and resupply with Nanohives. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Not entirely directed at you, its something I see a lot of medics do its like they've taken the Hippocratic oath sometimes. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.02.10 15:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Not entirely directed at you, its something I see a lot of medics do its like they've taken the Hippocratic oath sometimes. If friendly fire comes along with the ability to heal your enemies, it might be entertaining if someone created a "Red Cross" Corp to focus on providing BOTH sides in a battle with dedicated healers who don't take any part in combat.
Probably not practical, but it would be entertaining to see if you could make it work. Especially if you could get a decent number of larger corporations to set up non-aggression pacts with your corp. |
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
92
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Posted - 2013.02.10 15:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits, weapon, etc. I also understand that I did technically die. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, or is it intentional? I also wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?
So after reading all the post I realize that we don't actually die until we bleed out, so why should we take the death until we bleed out? If we wanted to get technical we are actually on the ground dying but not yet dead.
because you technically DID die. you have to understand that dying in this game is an abstract idea. Nobody truly dies, so its best to base it off your hp. If your clones dies because it lost all of its hp, then that should count as a death because in reality you put yourself in a situation where you lost all of its hp. getting revived saves the gear sure, but it doesn't change the fact that you got shot so many times that your clone fell over and couldn't get back up. At the end of the day your k/d is something like a measurement. I dont want to hire a merc that has a horrible k/d because it would make things harder on the rest of the team if they had to deal with reviving that merc.
every time your clone "dies" your losing so much more then just the suit. Your losing ground, time, potential kill/isk, ect... the fact that you have to get revived to begin with should count as a death because of the negative effects that has on the team. |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
191
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Posted - 2013.02.10 16:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Yeah its pretty silly and one of the reasons I don't bother letting medics revive me, I'm already dead and chances are the medic hasn't cleared the body so I'm just going to die twice.
I guess you and the guys who liked you are still using the crappy, free. militia starter fitting.
Once you start using advanced stuff and your suits start costing 80k+ isk you will want to be revived. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.10 16:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: I guess you and the guys who liked you are still using the crappy, free. militia starter fitting.
Once you start using advanced stuff and your suits start costing 80k+ isk you will want to be revived.
You would be guessing wrong, I always run the best gear available to me, my corp mates would be stunned if they saw me in anything less than my best type II gek suit.
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Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
191
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Posted - 2013.02.10 16:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
James Thraxton wrote:KDR matters for corp recruiting, a person with one over 4.0 can get recruited into top kill corps, i count that as a real factor as in the future background checks on applicants will become almost mandatory (as it is in EvE). don't underestimate its importance.
The most wanted player in eve corp aren't those with awesome kd but those who can fly logistic ships.
A corp that recruit players only based of the K/D will be a bad corp. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2013.02.10 16:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Iffy, the first death should probably count on your stats anyway. you probably earned it. but then dieing as you're trying to climb to your feet from a "bad rez" isn't really your fault. i know those **** ME off.
but at the same time i've made the same mistake. i remember i revived one guy into a sniper 3 times. the last time i figured out where the sniper was and body blocked for him, so he got away and i did save his suit. but that's 2 deaths that were kinda "on me"
the thing is though, how do you get the system to differentiate between the 2? and is it REALLY worth the dev teams effort? you can always mash circle if you really don't trust your team or really don't want the suit/clone back. |
Superluminal Replicant
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2013.02.10 17:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
What I hate is being ressed and not even having the option if I want to res or not. |
Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
115
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Posted - 2013.02.10 17:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Super you can always tap out instead of being revived. Since we are talking about things we hate: I hate those peeps who stay at the point where i revived them, even though they have more than enough time to get out of the fireline. . . Nope just keep standing there, so that the enemy can pick you off a second time, surely feels good right? By the way we don't get any wp for the second revive, sadly it take some people two or three tries to actually find out that they are supposed to go into cover so that we can heal them properly . . . |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
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Posted - 2013.02.10 21:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Noob question but... how do I check another persons KDR?
Will somebody answer my question? It's kind of hard to see into people souls with this screen in the way. To answer your question, add the person as a contact, then go to leader boards and scroll over to contacts. Later delete the contact if you want.
Thanks! |
HUGO SHTIGLETZ
RestlessSpirits
16
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
i don't know why one would ever think you deserve to have your deaths shown, this is a game about team play and having a -1 death per revive would give more importance to getting revived, and would reflect the overall team orientation of your squad/team.
most people bleed out because they already died anyways, if they just bleed out then they wont get possibly killed again before they can even get up, they'll have full ammo and restocked equipment... hmm, as of now the benefits of bleeding out are actually better than getting revived.
maybe show revive count in scoreboard too. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
I see a lot of people don't seem understand that one's role on the battle field has a lot to do with KDR. Situations in battle can have a lot to do with it as well.
Just last night, while our team was retaking E, I was using my Aslt.HMG to keep a group of reds pinned while team mates positioned and moved in and took the point. I didn't make any kills, but I got at least 500 points of assists. KDR whores would look at my stat and say I didn't contribute. Those with me at that time that had any kind of battle field awareness appreciated my efforts of restricting enemy movement and weakening the enemy for easier kills. So no. KDR can't be the lynch pin stat for contribution consideration.
As for downs(rezzed before bleed out) counting as deaths, I don't think they should. It should be just like hacking back a control point before the enemy hack completes denies the enemy their warpoints. But I don't consider it big enough issue to QQ about. |
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Kwik Draw
Traitors Function
4
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Posted - 2013.02.10 23:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru i agree with everything you say. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
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Posted - 2013.02.11 02:37:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kwik Draw wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru i agree with everything you say.
Maybe this time, but I'm sure you'll disagree with me somewhere. LOL |
Kwik Draw
Traitors Function
6
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:28:00 -
[83] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Kwik Draw wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru i agree with everything you say. Maybe this time, but I'm sure you'll disagree with me somewhere. LOL
i disagree with that...
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1343
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:29:00 -
[84] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits, weapon, etc. I also understand that I did technically die. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, or is it intentional? I also wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?
So after reading all the post I realize that we don't actually die until we bleed out, so why should we take the death until we bleed out? If we wanted to get technical we are actually on the ground dying but not yet dead. Because this is an FPS, and all the people with high K/Ds will **** themselves if "scrubs" can get into their "club" by having good teamates with injectors. |
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