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dabest2evadoit7
Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Revenant Order
35
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Posted - 2013.02.08 20:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits, weapon, etc. I also understand that I did technically die. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, or is it intentional? I also wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?
So after reading all the post I realize that we don't actually die until we bleed out, so why should we take the death until we bleed out? If we wanted to get technical we are actually on the ground dying but not yet dead. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
It reflects the fact that you got yourself killed and required the assistance of a teammate to revive you. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah its pretty silly and one of the reasons I don't bother letting medics revive me, I'm already dead and chances are the medic hasn't cleared the body so I'm just going to die twice. |
LXicon
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
your death count is increased when you die. the team's clone count drops when you respawn. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
ITT, people overvalue their KDR.
Die twice? So fracking what? You get to keep your gear, and your team's clone count doesn't drop. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:ITT, people overvalue their KDR.
Die twice? So fracking what? You get to keep your gear, and your team's clone count doesn't drop. League of Legends is the same way, people would rather lose with a decent KDR than win with a crappy one, that way they can blame the loss on their teammates that actually -tried- and lost due to the lack of team help.
Anyway, there should be separate stats for the amount of times "downed" and the amount of times killed. I propose that deaths count as "+1 death, +1 down" and revives count as "+0 death, +1 down", this would settle the issue quite easily, it wouldn't reflect on your KDR, and perhaps a new stat - DPL (Downs Per Life) - could be introduced. I've always thought that would be the best way to reflect revives vs. deaths. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is only a problem for those who are obsessed with a meaningless statistic. You don't loose anything real if you die shortly after being revived, and you stand to save a clone and real ISK if you make it back to cover. Remember to use L3 to dive for cover as you are revived and don't just stand around like an idiot after being revived and you sand a much better chance of staying up.
However those of you who worry more about your statistic than your wallet or winning the battle can just opt to bleed out quickly with the Circle button as soon as possible in order to save your Logi the risk his own life and ISK to aid you. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits weapon, etc. I also understand that I did technically die. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, is it intentional? I also wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?
You died and therefore it should be reflected that someone beat you. At least that's my take on it, and I prefer it this way. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense. |
Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense. The fact that you're concerened about "scurbs" leads me to believe that you probably scream at your TV while playing this game, not to mention all the whining after that. Perhaps you should take a break, it is just a video game after all. |
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Captain Save-a-Hoe
Better Hide R Die
11
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've noticed that the # of clones doesn't actually go down until you actually just let yourself die. So if you get revived you saved a clone but you're K/D is still affected it seems and your opponent still gets the kill. It's Weird. |
Captain Save-a-Hoe
Better Hide R Die
11
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense.
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Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Captain Save-a-Hoe wrote:I've noticed that the # of clones doesn't actually go down until you actually just let yourself die. So if you get revived you saved a clone but you're K/D is still affected it seems and your opponent still gets the kill. It's Weird. Edit:Beld Errmon wrote:Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense. gotta use that edit button dude :P |
Captain Save-a-Hoe
Better Hide R Die
11
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Captain Save-a-Hoe wrote:I've noticed that the # of clones doesn't actually go down until you actually just let yourself die. So if you get revived you saved a clone but you're K/D is still affected it seems and your opponent still gets the kill. It's Weird. Edit:Beld Errmon wrote:Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense. gotta use that edit button dude :P
I'm new lol |
slystylz vassar
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:ITT, people overvalue their KDR.
Die twice? So fracking what? You get to keep your gear, and your team's clone count doesn't drop. League of Legends is the same way, people would rather lose with a decent KDR than win with a crappy one, that way they can blame the loss on their teammates that actually -tried- and lost due to the lack of team help. Anyway, there should be separate stats for the amount of times "downed" and the amount of times killed. I propose that deaths count as "+1 death, +1 down" and revives count as "+0 death, +1 down", this would settle the issue quite easily, it wouldn't reflect on your KDR, and perhaps a new stat - DPL (Downs Per Life) - could be introduced. I've always thought that would be the best way to reflect revives vs. deaths.
Very good point on the stats. I would like to see a dev response to this. Bump and bump again!
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Captain Save-a-Hoe wrote:I've noticed that the # of clones doesn't actually go down until you actually just let yourself die. So if you get revived you saved a clone but you're K/D is still affected it seems and your opponent still gets the kill. It's Weird.
So you're saying that you shouldn't get credited with a kill until the downed opponent bleeds out? |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Surprise surprise all the people calling KDR a meaningless stat haven't got a KDR over 2, and one isn't even positive. |
Captain Save-a-Hoe
Better Hide R Die
11
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Captain Save-a-Hoe wrote:I've noticed that the # of clones doesn't actually go down until you actually just let yourself die. So if you get revived you saved a clone but you're K/D is still affected it seems and your opponent still gets the kill. It's Weird. So you're saying that you shouldn't get credited with a kill until the downed opponent bleeds out?
No that it seems that when you get killed you get a death and your opponent gets a kill but the clone count doesn't actually go down until you bleed out. I've seen it many times since i'm an assault medic. we have one clone left but on my screen i see like five ppl in need of reviving so if one of those players bleed out the clone count goes down. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Yes people should not care about their KDR and let scrub medics that can't do anything but hack and needle revive them under fire so they get 50wps and the reddot can farm the corpse till the medic gets killed by someone else, makes sense. The fact that you're concerened about "scurbs" leads me to believe that you probably scream at your TV while playing this game, not to mention all the whining after that. Perhaps you should take a break, it is just a video game after all.
The fact that you post on the forums via an alt with no kill history leads me to believe you lack balls. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Surprise surprise all the people calling KDR a meaningless stat haven't got a KDR over 2, and one isn't even positive. It's really not surprising. No need to stat pad when you know the stat doesn't matter. |
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crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
879
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
LXicon wrote:your death count is increased when you die. the team's clone count drops when you respawn. But losing a match doesn't effect me or my rewards at the end of a match so why does it matter? getting revived just makes your K/D wrose. So being revived currently is only a negitive unless your in a corp battle where the fights mean something.
also note I don't have a good K/D I'm a logi, but I still think it's broken and needs be redesigned. |
James Thraxton
The Exemplars
73
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
KDR matters for corp recruiting, a person with one over 4.0 can get recruited into top kill corps, i count that as a real factor as in the future background checks on applicants will become almost mandatory (as it is in EvE). don't underestimate its importance. |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
I thinks it's fine way it is. Accurately reflects your defeat, injectors spare your team a clone and your gear.
Medics should clear danger before reviving. Not always possible. Risk versus reward. Team game. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Surprise surprise all the people calling KDR a meaningless stat haven't got a KDR over 2, and one isn't even positive. It's really not surprising. No need to stat pad when you know the stat doesn't matter.
Yeah cause being good at a game and having pride in your ability is stat padding, tall poppy syndrome is strong in this game. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
165
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
James Thraxton wrote:KDR matters for corp recruiting, a person with one over 4.0 can get recruited into top kill corps, i count that as a real factor as in the future background checks on applicants will become almost mandatory (as it is in EvE). don't underestimate its importance.
This is sad but partially true. For this reason we need a better statistic to measure. I would suggest WP per day ingame, with a correction check after every 24 hours spent in fights.
This statistic would give away active players, "punish" leechers, and reward skilled ones who can pubstomp the most. Checking this statistic along with kill count would reveal boosts such as nanohive spam. IMHO wp/time is the only relevant statistics besides just WP or kill count.
KDR is a bad measure of anything, because the leech who scores 2 kills gets the same kdr as the stomper who wins the match for his team with 70+. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
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Posted - 2013.02.08 21:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
ISK efficiency > KDR
This will become the true measure for recruitment. This isn't saying that high KDR/ high IE are mutually exclusive, just you'll be able to tell who the real tryhards are once we can see IE as a stat.
High KDR with an IE that is 100's of millions in the red and you'll know that they only take AUR gear up against nubs.
Each AUR is worth 150,514.17 ISK (current as of 1653, using the Jita Buy order price for PLEX from http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?type_id=29668 divided by 3500 which is how many AUR you get from converting a PLEX).
This means that the new NEO Dropsuit (costing 90 AUR on the market) is worth 13,546,275.3, yep, 13.5m ISK so each one of those that you lose, you need to kill a whole lot of blueberries in ISK gear to make up the difference just for the cost of the Dropsuit.
KDR < IE |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
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Posted - 2013.02.08 22:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
I would very much like to see it changed so that it does not harm your ratio. I think it would help stop people from bleeding out instantly. Would also love to know from a dev whether it is a flaw or a design choice |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2013.02.08 22:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
James Thraxton wrote:KDR matters for corp recruiting, a person with one over 4.0 can get recruited into top kill corps, i count that as a real factor as in the future background checks on applicants will become almost mandatory. Fair enough; KDR is only one factor though. Top Kill corps and alliances in EVE are shut down, and it will happen in DUST. Against All Authorities is a recent EVE alliance example. There are others.
Recruiting a jackass with good KDR won't make your corp great. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 22:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:ISK efficiency > KDR This will become the true measure for recruitment. This isn't saying that high KDR/ high IE are mutually exclusive, just you'll be able to tell who the real tryhards are once we can see IE as a stat. High KDR with an IE that is 100's of millions in the red and you'll know that they only take AUR gear up against nubs. Each AUR is worth 150,514.17 ISK (current as of 1653, using the Jita Buy order price for PLEX from http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?type_id=29668 divided by 3500 which is how many AUR you get from converting a PLEX). This means that the new NEO Dropsuit (costing 90 AUR on the market) is worth 13,546,275.3, yep, 13.5m ISK so each one of those that you lose, you need to kill a whole lot of blueberries in ISK gear to make up the difference just for the cost of the Dropsuit. KDR < IE
Disagree here. If you keep killing with whatever you kill with and keep claiming whatever goals you set for yourself, isk is meaningless. That is, when there is something to fight for. I've lost 5 Thales rifles trying to push my goal of a 100-0 pubstomp. When I achieve that, I'll be satisfied and proud to have given people shiny kills on me. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
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Posted - 2013.02.08 22:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Well, I have to say that I can't begrudge you setting goals to strive for, it is something we should all do. I do have to say that I tend to agree with you there, though if you listen to a lot of the talk from L33T PVPers about green killboards, IDK that it will be much different in Dust than it is in Eve.
Goals are a good thing, this will not change the importance of IE as far as recruitment is concerned. |
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