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Doshneil Antaro
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
24
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Posted - 2013.02.21 00:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
This is probably the wrong thread for this, but I think the laser rifle needs to be reworked. I think a big buff to damage, minimum range doing the same damage. Good so far I know, but now I throw the curve ball. Heat build up needs to the target getting shot. Sort of a damage over time weapon with the "DOT" increasing the longer the beam is on the target. This would bring a rpg feel that this game is missing, as well as getting insta-poped the second a laser touches someone which is unfair and unbalanced. As it stands, a well placed laser is hard to get to because of their more accurate range, and I die in my best suit 600+ total health in the time someone can get 3-6 duvolle rounds on me. That makes it unanswerable in the right hands/location its placed on the map. |
Atlas Exenthal
mnemonic.
30
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Posted - 2013.02.21 10:46:00 -
[92] - Quote
Bit of an update to how I feel about these things...
The skills *are* broken, yes, AND the minimum range thing *is* a pain in the ass. However, the range dealio isn't *that* big a deal.
I've been using the rifles almost exclusively, and I'm sure there are some people who can attest to the fact that I do pretty well with them. I think the biggest issues lie in the current level designs we're given, as well as the absurd amount of damage overlap the ARs put out to where lasers should be working best. Maybe nuking AR range and changing their proficiency from damage to range would be a good solution.
The nature of the LR means you've got to build up heat to do more damage, however many of the maps are congested and feature tons of cover. That makes it extremely difficult to use the LR as you've got to treat it like a sniper/assault hybrid. If we had larger and/or more open maps I think we'd look at these things a whole lot differently. Currently, most locations which are optimal for lasers are still well inside the range of every basic AR (think Manus Peak skirmish between B/C).
The next thing is basically how good/bad the regular and elm-7 are.
The elm-7 has a *bit* more range, and lets you live in the heat a *little* bit longer, but for all intents and purposes you're better off saving your money (and a ton of fitting) by simply running the regular LR. I'm not sure what the best approach would be to balance that out a bit better, because I don't think the LR is overpowered... moreso that the elm-7 is underpowered. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.21 13:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:This is probably the wrong thread for this, but I think the laser rifle needs to be reworked. I think a big buff to damage, minimum range doing the same damage. Good so far I know, but now I throw the curve ball. Heat build up needs to the target getting shot. Sort of a damage over time weapon with the "DOT" increasing the longer the beam is on the target. This would bring a rpg feel that this game is missing, as well as getting insta-poped the second a laser touches someone which is unfair and unbalanced. As it stands, a well placed laser is hard to get to because of their more accurate range, and I die in my best suit 600+ total health in the time someone can get 3-6 duvolle rounds on me. That makes it unanswerable in the right hands/location its placed on the map.
Wrong thread or not, a bump is a bump.
Needs to what the target getting shot? You left out the words actually telling what you meant :l
As for the weapon being 'unanswerable in the right locations, that's kinda the point. It is a mainly defensive weapon, and if you can't get in past his optimum he chose some good ground to cover. And the answer to your unanswerable is a sniper rifle or getting closer than 60 meters.
And a laser will never instapop someone with 600+ HP, especially when they bulk of that is armor. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.21 13:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Atlas Exenthal wrote:Bit of an update to how I feel about these things...
The skills *are* broken, yes, AND the minimum range thing *is* a pain in the ass. However, the range dealio isn't *that* big a deal.
I've been using the rifles almost exclusively, and I'm sure there are some people who can attest to the fact that I do pretty well with them. I think the biggest issues lie in the current level designs we're given, as well as the absurd amount of damage overlap the ARs put out to where lasers should be working best. Maybe nuking AR range and changing their proficiency from damage to range would be a good solution.
The nature of the LR means you've got to build up heat to do more damage, however many of the maps are congested and feature tons of cover. That makes it extremely difficult to use the LR as you've got to treat it like a sniper/assault hybrid. If we had larger and/or more open maps I think we'd look at these things a whole lot differently. Currently, most locations which are optimal for lasers are still well inside the range of every basic AR (think Manus Peak skirmish between B/C).
The next thing is basically how good/bad the regular and elm-7 are.
The elm-7 has a *bit* more range, and lets you live in the heat a *little* bit longer, but for all intents and purposes you're better off saving your money (and a ton of fitting) by simply running the regular LR. I'm not sure what the best approach would be to balance that out a bit better, because I don't think the LR is overpowered... moreso that the elm-7 is underpowered.
I know it isn't an all-consuming flaw, but it is a flaw and I will continue to campaign for it to be fixed. No skill should ever make you worse in any way, or else the 'give us respecs' people will actually have a point.
Also, I'm pretty sure Lasers aren't so much 'more damage with more heat, and are actually more damage with longer burst. I've killed a large number of people with them, but none have had the decency to let me test whether it was one or the other. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.21 22:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
Annnnd bump. |
Doshneil Antaro
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
24
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Posted - 2013.02.22 00:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
Wrong thread or not, a bump is a bump.
Needs to what the target getting shot? You left out the words actually telling what you meant :l
As for the weapon being 'unanswerable in the right locations, that's kinda the point. It is a mainly defensive weapon, and if you can't get in past his optimum he chose some good ground to cover. And the answer to your unanswerable is a sniper rifle or getting closer than 60 meters.
And a laser will never instapop someone with 600+ HP, especially when they bulk of that is armor.[/quote] In my thought, the longer your laser is on the target, the hotter they would get, causing the DoT to do more damage and last longer. The heat build up on the gun would only affect the weapon overheating mechanism, not cause any additional damage. This would cause 1 vs 1 fight against other weapons more level, yet still increasing the overall efficiency of the laser. As it stands 1vs1 lazer vs ar in boths optimal range, with heat built up on laser already, with 300+ armor I still lose 100% of the time before I can get 5-6 rounds on a tier 1 laser, 3-5 on an advance. I can 1vs3 ar users in the same situation dependent on those players skills. I would like to see animation as well as the armor heats up too much and the suit catch on fire like a vehicle at critical mass. As per the rest of my post, disregard, it was more a rant than constructive thought that adds to my idea. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:24:00 -
[97] - Quote
To Doshneil Antaro (you botched the quote and I don't feel like fixing it, so this'll have to do)
You do realize that if the damage ramp up was on the TARGET instead of the LASER RIFLE, not only is that another variable to keep track of but what if TWO Laser Rifles fire at the same target? Three? A full squad? Then we'll start seeing insta-pops. A whole team organized with only Laser Rifles in this manner would be able to kill HAVs with no effort.
Also, the Laser has a finicky optimum, and you obviously are not aware of how it works. The Laser is a purely defensive weapon. It's optimum range is at THE VERY END of its total range. A Laser Rifle will never be in the same optimum range as an AR user, the numbers just don't add up. It's range is even a bit farther than the AR, as I can attest at seeing so many vain AR shots fade away a mere 6 meters in front of my visor as I fry their source. A laser's weakness is close range. It can't even deal 25% of it's BASE DAMAGE at any range you'd think to use a shotgun. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.22 11:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
Annnnd one more bump.
Seriously, CCP is absolutely ignoring this thread. |
Vicarrah - Dust
Suffer Inc.
13
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Posted - 2013.02.22 14:52:00 -
[99] - Quote
I think that half the problem with the laser rifle is that fact that they've pretty much copied the mechanics straight from Eve. IIRC (and it's been a few years since I was actively playing Eve) the skills that work on range work on laser weapons the same way, however in Eve you have the extra mechanism of being able to change the optimal ranges (and falloff parameters) by swapping crystals. This is missing from Dust and would possibly be the answer to our problems.
but anyway, bump to keep this in the public eye, maybe we can get a dev response sometime soon........ |
Kazio De Vihura
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.02.22 15:55:00 -
[100] - Quote
Yeh laser are very sytuational and underwhelming. Optimal on them is how muche? 17m and range 81m ? AR have 79m range and 1-35 optimal, and at close there is no point evene try shot , you just die. |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.22 20:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Kazio De Vihura wrote:Yeh laser are very sytuational and underwhelming. Optimal on them is how muche? 17m and range 81m ? AR have 79m range and 1-35 optimal, and at close there is no point evene try shot , you just die.
SMG for the win. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.22 22:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Kazio De Vihura wrote:Yeh laser are very sytuational and underwhelming. Optimal on them is how muche? 17m and range 81m ? AR have 79m range and 1-35 optimal, and at close there is no point evene try shot , you just die. SMG for the win.
Unless you're a Logi, who had our sidearms forcibly removed for no gawddamned reason. |
Israckcatarac
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.02.22 22:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kazio De Vihura wrote:Yeh laser are very sytuational and underwhelming. Optimal on them is how muche? 17m and range 81m ? AR have 79m range and 1-35 optimal, and at close there is no point evene try shot , you just die. SMG for the win. Unless you're a Logi, who had our sidearms forcibly removed for no gawddamned reason.
Known issue since before open Beta unless your going for proto you only invest 1 point in laser anything else is a waste. Nothing new here. Move along.
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Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.23 02:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
Israckcatarac wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kazio De Vihura wrote:Yeh laser are very sytuational and underwhelming. Optimal on them is how muche? 17m and range 81m ? AR have 79m range and 1-35 optimal, and at close there is no point evene try shot , you just die. SMG for the win. Unless you're a Logi, who had our sidearms forcibly removed for no gawddamned reason. Known issue since before open Beta unless your going for proto you only invest 1 point in laser anything else is a waste. Nothing new here. Move along.
First off, with that number of likes you are either an alt or were never even here during the closed beta.
Now that I am done being petty, there IS something to see here you assclown. There is a problem with the weapon in its coding, a DEV side error, that we want corrected. Even if what you say is in fact true then it has been an error for a long time, but that still makes it a valid goddamn error.
We believed the Earth was in the middle of the everything for a long time, didn't make it any less of a non-truth. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.23 13:43:00 -
[105] - Quote
As this was absent from the newest notes, I am forced to bump again. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.23 21:16:00 -
[106] - Quote
To recap. Laser Rifle Operations does literally nothing. Laser Rifle Proficiency does literally nothing. Light Sharpshooter forces Laser users to fight further and further away instead of just allowing them to fight further due to increasing minimum range as well as maximum.
...also Logis need their sidearms back, but that is irrelevant to this thread. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.24 04:34:00 -
[107] - Quote
*cough* |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.24 18:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
Still broken. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.25 19:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
Think imma make a case for heatsinks with all my spare forum time... |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1004
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Posted - 2013.02.26 21:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
-Sigh- One more ******* bump now that I'm 100% CCP does not a give a ****.
That or they're going to ignore everything in the thread just to clean up posts and lock the thread -_- that'd be about right. |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1008
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Posted - 2013.02.27 20:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:I've restored the replication process since FoxFour said it wasn't what I thought it was even though I was right.
Also, we're aware of the Laser Rifle skills being broken and have a fix in the pipeline for them.
And the Crusade finally comes to a close.
Thank you everyone for your support we can now go put the picket signs away and go home. |
Adstellarum
G I A N T
6
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:25:00 -
[112] - Quote
apparantly not in the pipeline for today's update |
Luna Danneskjold
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:13:00 -
[113] - Quote
Also, the move controls for laser rifle are completely quacked. |
Juancho Supreme
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2013.04.01 14:14:00 -
[114] - Quote
I agree completely with the OP about it being unfair for the laser rifle's bonus to be stated but not executed after using. It's not right for those players who really take their time to weigh options as to what to purchase next with their hard-earned skill points.
As far as NEEDING those bonuses for the rifles, I'm a bit skeptical. I have not used a rifle, and am only stating my opinion based on what I've observed from teammates using the LR and enemies.
While wearing my proto, 400+ shields 300+ armor (roundabout), I am EASILY melted by a direct shot with the laser rifle. It definitely has tremendous power especially in good hands, and I feel as though giving this weapon a boost in efficiency would be a mistake.
Again I havent used the rifle myself ... so I cant comment 1st hand.
I'm also aware that at close range the rifle is near useless, so i guess the range power is justified. This might just be a stealth QQ thread .... haha |
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