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[suggestion] a possible solution to making weapons balanced

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theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.25 22:39:00 - [1] - Quote laser rifle first off i dont know if its true or not but dont do a major nerf of the laser rifle it is fairly well balanced as it is and ive never really died to it except when im completley out in the open. my solution to it would be to give it a faster heat build up speed (say it maxes every 20?) and reduce clip size to at least 80 that way if you time it right you get four deadly bursts before reloading. also instead of reducing the damage that the gun does how about changing how fast the gun overheats every level and the total clip size for each level for example 1. std holds 60 per clip and overheats after 15 2. adv holds 80 per clip and overheats after 20 3. proto holds 100 per clip and overheats after 25 4. ofc level holds 100 per clip and overheats after 35 mass driver i feel is pretty well done but it would be more balanced it you 1. reduce how much it moves the direction you're looking if you get caught in the blast Assault rifles in general 1.there needs to be more damage difference between each level of gun i think at least 10 because it is pointless to level up a weapon right now just to get an extra 2 or 4 dps 2.recoil is fine breach rifle 1.bring back old damage 2.increase the recoil 3.tighter bullet spread while aiming 4.bullet spread will need to expand while hipfiring to counter act "spray and pray" hmg 1. increase how fast its effective rating drops the further away the target is. swarms 1. make them faster to catch up with dropships dropships 1. give counter measures against the swarms i.e. make swarms destructible by turrets for ex a merc in a dropship is manning the blaster turret while this gun is ineffective against infantry it will be useful in blowing up the swarms chasing the ship. since turrets cannot aim directly behind or in front of the ship this requires the pilot to outmaneuvre the swarms in a way that allows his gunner to be able to lead the missiles to destroy them. plus since the dropship has two turret slots it will still be able to fire upon enemy infantry with the other turret slot if that slot is not being used as a counter measure itself. this will also give a new play style to dropships as they could then be extremley durable mobile spawns as they could have two blaster or railgun turrets dedicated to eliminating swarms so that the ship can deploy more soldiers. turrets specifically the missile turret, the amount of missile dispersion needs to be reduced and the direct and splash damage needs a slight rebuff, theres a reason that everyone stopped using it after you nerfed it ccp and its because you whacked it with the nerf bat too hard.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.25 22:48:00 - [2] - Quote if you have any comments or additions please add them below and i will be sure to read them. if you see something by someone else or me that you agree with please like that post as well as giving a comment of asent that way ill be doubly sure to see which ideas have some support. if an idea gets enough support i will of course add it into the op.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:04:00 - [3] - Quote I pretty much fundamentally disagree with everything except for these parts: Quote: breach rifle 1.bring back old damage 2.increase the recoil 3.tighter bullet spread while aiming 4.bullet spread will need to expand while hipfiring to counter act "spray and pray" hmg 1. increase how fast its effective rating drops the further away the target is. swarms 1. make them faster to catch up with dropships dropships 1. give counter measures against the swarms i.e. make swarms destructible by turrets for ex a merc in a dropship is manning the blaster turret while this gun is ineffective against infantry it will be useful in blowing up the swarms chasing the ship. since turrets cannot aim directly behind or in front of the ship this requires the pilot to outmaneuvre the swarms in a way that allows his gunner to be able to lead the missiles to destroy them. plus since the dropship has two turret slots it will still be able to fire upon enemy infantry with the other turret slot if that slot is not being used as a counter measure itself. this will also give a new play style to dropships as they could then be extremley durable mobile spawns as they could have two blaster or railgun turrets dedicated to eliminating swarms so that the ship can deploy more soldiers. And I only agree with the premise of increasing swarm launcher speed if they include the dropship stuff you posted. As is, swarm launchers are already extremely effective vs. dropships considering their low price, ease of fit, and ease of use. Dropships are BY FAR one of the most difficult things in the game to use effectively, considering they are paper thin, slow as molases, easily visible to nearly everyone in the field, expensive to use, and can be hit from 3/4 the way across almost every map in rotation.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:08:00 - [4] - Quote and i thank you for your feed back because if it gets the support it needs hopefully this thread will not just be a suggestion of what to do but an actual list of things that we will se in game because ccp listened to us and gave the game a reason for us to spend the skill points in.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote IMO: Lazer rifle just needs a slightly faster overheat. Anything more, would be overkill. MD needs to go back down to having 2 less rounds. (original drum capacity) Anything more would be overkill. ARs are fine, except damage on militia/std should be back down to 30, Duvolle should be bumped up to 34.5. Only other level of differentiation should be a 5% increase in ROF as you go up a level. That way, the damage per round only goes up by a couple points, but the DPS goes up more, because of faster ROF. This along with the fact that accuracy goes up with higher level ARs, would be enough. * Regarding Breach, they just need to be bumped back up to original damage. (and give Creodron it's old 42 round magazine) HMG just needs it accuracy to drop at the farther ranges.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:23:00 - [6] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: IMO: Lazer rifle just needs a slightly faster overheat. Anything more, would be overkill. MD needs to go back down to having 2 less rounds. (original drum capacity) Anything more would be overkill. ARs are fine, except damage on militia/std should be back down to 30, Duvolle should be bumped up to 34.5. Only other level of differentiation should be a 5% increase in ROF as you go up a level. That way, the damage per round only goes up by a couple points, but the DPS goes up more, because of faster ROF. This along with the fact that accuracy goes up with higher level ARs, would be enough. * Regarding Breach, they just need to be bumped back up to original damage. (and give Creodron it's old 42 round magazine) HMG just needs it accuracy to drop at the farther ranges. So, basically, nerf everything except AR... which just so happens to be the gun that most people use, and the large majority of in-game kills come from. Makes perfect sense, I mean heck, I still occasionally get killed by LRs, MDs, and HMGs.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:35:00 - [7] - Quote lets try to stay civilized last thing i want is for this thread to become an argument that would destroy the purpose of the thread and then nothing would change
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:40:00 - [8] - Quote Lasers are fine, I've been using them since they came out, ya I can go 36-1 with a laser but hey, can do it with ar as well. I was playing a game today and a kid got killed by a laser, he said oh well they'll get nerfed soon enough and I won't have to worry about it then, I believe ccp in the past said these are working as intended. They are not something that is easy to use, you can be flanked, if you overheat while being shot you commit suicide, my viziam alone costs 86k, up close they're garbage. People just don't understand just like a sniper, if someone is sniping are you going to stay in the open and be sniped? When a laser rifle is charging up, which I always do before going for my targets, I'm at max damage, yet ppl stand there watching the pretty light ready to be slayed. The initial I'd say 80% heat build has extremely low damage and gives targets time to run if you shoot to early, also by building heat you waste a ton of ammo and a nano hive is mandatory which takes from your suit, also the LR takes alot to fit further diminishing your ability to fit tank on your suit. I will also agree with the swarm changes if dropships are changed and tanks are changed, at current to many ppl can switch to a militia swarm fit at a supply depot and it becomes lunicris. HMG's def need some range toned down will agree there as well. Sorry my post was mainly on the LR but most people don't understand them enough, and is one weapon that is balanced and working. AR's need a bigger difference in them from militia up to compensate as well.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.25 23:57:00 - [9] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Lasers are fine, I've been using them since they came out, ya I can go 36-1 with a laser but hey, can do it with ar as well. I was playing a game today and a kid got killed by a laser, he said oh well they'll get nerfed soon enough and I won't have to worry about it then, I believe ccp in the past said these are working as intended. They are not something that is easy to use, you can be flanked, if you overheat while being shot you commit suicide, my viziam alone costs 86k, up close they're garbage. People just don't understand just like a sniper, if someone is sniping are you going to stay in the open and be sniped? When a laser rifle is charging up, which I always do before going for my targets, I'm at max damage, yet ppl stand there watching the pretty light ready to be slayed. The initial I'd say 80% heat build has extremely low damage and gives targets time to run if you shoot to early, also by building heat you waste a ton of ammo and a nano hive is mandatory which takes from your suit, also the LR takes alot to fit further diminishing your ability to fit tank on your suit. I will also agree with the swarm changes if dropships are changed and tanks are changed, at current to many ppl can switch to a militia swarm fit at a supply depot and it becomes lunicris. HMG's def need some range toned down will agree there as well. Sorry my post was mainly on the LR but most people don't understand them enough, and is one weapon that is balanced and working. AR's need a bigger difference in them from militia up to compensate as well. its fine if your discussing on one topic of it there is no need to have to voice your opinion on all of them if you only really care about one of them this thread is about the free exchangement of ideas that we believe will actually give back the meaning to diversifying. it has been said before that dust has become a swarm of people using the ar and im not going to sit here anylonger with the empty hope that ccp will see the difference between the new guys who had a bad game and the experienced vets who are giving constructive criticism and critical feedback to improve the game. the assault rifle horde needs to go and not just to other weapons they need to go to the different types of assault rifles as well. right now there are 5 variants on the assault rifle if you include the 'exile' and how many of them do you ever see being used in a match? all the while you see some people still using the LR and the MD and all the other types of weapons. back when it was a viable choice i was a breach assault rifle user and i had found my neiche within new eden the people i could kill were assault guys when i got close enough to do max damage, heavies if i could stay out of the hmg range, and some scouts if they didnt get close enough with their shotgun. its range and damage were completley balanced and it had its specific niche. but people complained because they didnt use their weapons advantages that mine didn't have. the regular ar users tried to fight me in cqc and lost so they complained that the breach was op. the burst ar guys tried to best me while hip firing so they lost and complained that the breach was op. even some tac rifle users tried to engage me within my range when their range was double mine so they lost and complained that the breach was op. there were even some people in heavy suits that were mad about a gun that wasnt theirs that could kill them if a merc got behind them and started shooting so they complained that the breach was op. the breach imho was supposed to be the ar's answer to the heavies able to wear them down slightly quicker than the ar at a cost to RoF so that the heavies didnt rule the cqc aspect of dust. and now the newberries are trying to do the same thing to the LR and i think that enough is enough! they need to harden the kitten up like we all had to play the game get the skill points and get the guns were using and until they get to that point they need to learn some goddamn gungame or go back to whatever shooter they came from.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.26 00:00:00 - [10] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: mikegunnz wrote: IMO: Lazer rifle just needs a slightly faster overheat. Anything more, would be overkill. MD needs to go back down to having 2 less rounds. (original drum capacity) Anything more would be overkill. ARs are fine, except damage on militia/std should be back down to 30, Duvolle should be bumped up to 34.5. Only other level of differentiation should be a 5% increase in ROF as you go up a level. That way, the damage per round only goes up by a couple points, but the DPS goes up more, because of faster ROF. This along with the fact that accuracy goes up with higher level ARs, would be enough. * Regarding Breach, they just need to be bumped back up to original damage. (and give Creodron it's old 42 round magazine) HMG just needs it accuracy to drop at the farther ranges. So, basically, nerf everything except AR... which just so happens to be the gun that most people use, and the large majority of in-game kills come from. Makes perfect sense, I mean heck, I still occasionally get killed by LRs, MDs, and HMGs. You do realize that over the last few builds, the ARs have been nerfed, MD buffed, HMG buffed, and perhaps lasers (although I can't remember if lasers were touched)????? Simple logic, AR should do many things REASONABLY well. (it's an all around weapon, not just in this game, but in most games) HMG, GREAT short-to-mid range weapon. Better than all other weapons in it's range forte... short of maybe the shotgun. (but shotgun is really more just short range not so much mid) The problem, is that is even excels at medium-longish range, especially with sharpshooter skills. It has no real weakness. My suggestion simply helps balance it, to that it would be slightly less effective at longer ranges. Speaking of longer ranges, that's where the laser excels. Medium-to-long range, it is king (as it should be) The problem, is that with a second of heatup, it can melt 1000HP heavy, even an armor heavy, in no more than a sec. (laser is SUPPOSED to be effective against shields, but a little less so against armor, problem is that it does massive damage to ALL when heated up. That's why I suggested to speed the overheat up, this way, you're aim has to be good to kill a 1000HP heavy in a second, before overheating. As it stands now, even with sub-par aim, you just have to continue to swing the "heated up laser" around target until you hit it for a sec. MD, as I said, it just needs a slight capacity drop. I don't mind the knock effect it has, that's it strength. Generally it can kill in 1 or two rounds, and even with misses, you can kill someone in 3-4 rounds because of splash. If you reduce the capacity, only GOOD players will be effective with it. As it is now, anybody can just fire off a few rounds, that are "just close enough" to splash a guy to death. (remember, the knock effect, gives the MD user an extra sec against the victim, until they can recover. I give this advice, as someone who has used ALL these weapons in the past. And currently have toons that use AR, MD, and HMG.

theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.26 01:14:00 - [11] - Quote my idea on the different clip capacities and heat rates were just ground work but you cant deny that they have viable use as a base for a better solution
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:01:00 - [12] - Quote Laser Rifle - no. The LR does sustained, medium-long range fire. Making it "burst" changes that role entirely. Also note that letting it overheat damages your suit, which means that your bursting idea is more likely to kill the user than the enemy. Instead, I would make it overheat faster with current damage build-up time, but remove reloading as a trade - you just have to watch total ammo and overheat. MD - yes. Currently the only "problem" is when people get in the center of that rocket-launch map and rain death from above using nanohives - but the map has a built-in counter that I found yesterday, so this isn't an issue for me. IIRC the old clip was 4 for standard, right? It's not that big a deal, but i'm sure somebody will thank you for it. And the reduced shake makes sense from a tech standpoint - shouldn't our dropsuits be protecting us from the blast anyway (given we still have suit health)? AR - yes, except for one thing This is mostly about tiers of weapon - I agree there needs to be enough difference to justify paying almost 10x the ISK for proto. Hipfire also needs to behave like hipfire with a CoF bloom However, the range is fine - the AR is a blaster, well-known in EVE for having the shortest total range of all weapon types. And even with sharpshooter unskilled, I've been hitting at a good enough range that it doesn't need a buff. Breach - I haven't used a Breach yet, so I can't make anything direct. I do know, however, that the Breach was utterly OP in earlier builds - if it needs a buff, the buff can only be slight or else we risk returning to that situation. HMG - only if the drop is after short-medium range. Otherwise no. If taken too far, an HMG nerf can make it less effective than the AR, at which point the Heavy suit becomes a Forge Gun novelty toy. The HMG is supposed to murder at medium-close range - that's exactly why it exists. I agree that it shouldn't be terribly dangerous at much further ranges, but it has to be viable at its current "sweet spot" range. Swarms and Dropships - yes. The Swarms need their speed buffed - and this isn't just about dropships. Fighters were described in internal tests as so fast, they would almost instantly redzone in the current beta maps, partly why CCP's waiting for some months to release them. Tell me, how effective would any current weapon system be against that!?!? Having missiles susceptible to being shot just makes sense - Those gunner seats weren't really intended to be full-altitude infantry killers, they were intended to defend the dropship. I would much rather have dropship gunners act as Phalanx turrets to knock out swarm missiles. And I've been clamoring for ECM myself for the longest time. Air vehicles rely on maneuverability instead of a hefty tank, and just about every 21st Century combat aircraft in existence has countermeasures of some kind - why aren't they available for us 20,000 years later?
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:33:00 - [13] - Quote just a quick response to your view on the breach. the breach was labeled op for the reasons that the LR is now marked op people did not pay attention to keeping distance which was the breach's weakness just like how they do not attempt to get into cqc vs the laser rifle. while there are aspects in both that needed and need tweaking respectively overall they were balanced compared to other weapons
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:35:00 - [14] - Quote Leave the MD alone. It is balanced: A standard basic variant assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. The standard basic variant assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range. Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare. 387.5 > 225 387.5 > 115 In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 for MD < for 1860 AR) , and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage. Its a fair trade-off. Do NOT nerf it back to 4 rounds. Now for the laser rifle: The laser rifle is also balanced, but it needs a tweak. Right now the standard LR and the advanced are identical except for the heat buildup; its not enough to jutify the higher skill requirements, and the price tag. Make the standard LR's base damage by 1.5 points, and raising the advanced LR's base damage by 1.5 points would work as well. The point is that the advanced one needs to be further differentiated from the standard to make it worth the price. Nothing else is needed. Its terrible at close range, but great at long range, its fair. ARs: Range is fine, any more and it will encroach on the domain of the laser rifle. Breach does suck; it has less damage per second than the basic variant, less damage per magazine, and its somehow more expensive. It needs an advantage. HMGs: Seems like a fair request. Swarms: Militia swarms should remain the same speed, but swarm speed should increase with each tier. It should not be easy for a free milita swarm launcher to hit an expensive dropship. Dropships: Being able to destroy incoming swarms would be great.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:41:00 - [15] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: just a quick response to your view on the breach. the breach was labeled op for the reasons that the LR is now marked op people did not pay attention to keeping distance which was the breach's weakness just like how they do not attempt to get into cqc vs the laser rifle. while there are aspects in both that needed and need tweaking respectively overall they were balanced compared to other weapons Good point - except for one thing: in some of the earlier builds, the Breach's tight hipfire allowed it to continue killing faster in close-quarters range, and it was the weapon of choice for the infamous Dance Wars of 2012. The Breach can be made into a balanced weapon yet. It needs a stronger kick, which also means a large CoF bloom - it should start with a tighter hipspread, but bloom to wider than the AR with continued fire. Both of those additions can be added to the damage buff to make the Breach a weapon that does best firing in controlled bursts - something that isn't represented well in DUST currently.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.26 02:49:00 - [16] - Quote Zat Earthshatter wrote: theschizogenious wrote: just a quick response to your view on the breach. the breach was labeled op for the reasons that the LR is now marked op people did not pay attention to keeping distance which was the breach's weakness just like how they do not attempt to get into cqc vs the laser rifle. while there are aspects in both that needed and need tweaking respectively overall they were balanced compared to other weapons Good point - except for one thing: in some of the earlier builds, the Breach's tight hipfire allowed it to continue killing faster in close-quarters range, and it was the weapon of choice for the infamous Dance Wars of 2012. The Breach can be made into a balanced weapon yet. It needs a stronger kick, which also means a large CoF bloom - it should start with a tighter hipspread, but bloom to wider than the AR with continued fire. Both of those additions can be added to the damage buff to make the Breach a weapon that does best firing in controlled bursts - something that isn't represented well in DUST currently. and i did take that into consideration when giving suggestions on how to balance it if you look at the op i believe i said that its hipfire needs to become less accurate faster. edit: #4 i said that its accuracy while hipfiring needs to go down faster. while writing it i put down the intention to eliminate the chance to spray and pray but your example is just another reinforcement of it being a feasible counter to it being to accurate.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 217	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:11:00 - [17] - Quote leave my MD ALONE!!! No i thought about the difference b/w 4-6 and i agree with you that it will only let good MD players excel with the weapon, however i think one of the reasons why they went 6 is because of the design of the weapon and in addition at range 4 shots of splash can often not be enough to take out players at range, thus balancing its CQC effectiveness while sacrificing its ability as a suppressive weapon at range. That being said ive yet to ever play a fully proficient MD with full 25% radius bump, 15% damage bump, plus 10% weaponry in which the weapon will be fine once fully specced. Edit- And i think that is part of the reason over my concern with the LR is its incredible damage dealing potential with little skill point investment, i could only imagine what a fully specced out viziam would be like with a level 5 proficiency, and LW capacity upgrade.
Jackof All-Trades Bojo's School of the Trades 79	Posted - 2013.01.26 04:18:00 - [18] - Quote Mostly good suggestions, but I think nerfing the laser rifle even more isn't the solution.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 391	Posted - 2013.01.26 05:57:00 - [19] - Quote The AR is already stupidly versatile. It needs less range, not more. Change the name of the AR to the "hybrid rifle" and halve its range, and change the tac rifle and burst rifle to a new weapon type - the caldari "rail carbine"
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.26 06:40:00 - [20] - Quote removed range for ar's and added a slight buff to missiles thanks for the feed back guys and keep posting your suggestions

RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 136	Posted - 2013.01.26 19:29:00 - [21] - Quote Laser rifle is fine as is. The variants need improvement, just as the AR's need improvements to their variations. Your Name Here said it well. I think that MD's are finally formidable, which is a change, and HMG's are the bane of my existence. But as the game is I find the current weapons to be mostly balanced. The OP's proposition of changing the Laser to More over heating removes the specialty of the weapon. While warming up you burn through ammo, make yourself a pretty target by letting everyone see your green light, and only do damage at long range. When I have killed people at close range I pitty them, it means that they had used everything they had and were more scared of the damage i could do even when it took me 2 reloads to finish of their 50hp of armor for the last 30 sec. And usually I don't get to finish them off, someone else does that for me, I just make them squishy and a little toasted before they are served to my Heavy that I team with. Logibro code. LASER NERF, NO MD nerf No.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:17:00 - [22] - Quote thanks red yeah ive used the laser rifle probably 5 times total so im definitley not an expert on it so any suggestions or comments about that or the mass driver would be appreciated
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:31:00 - [23] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: thanks red yeah ive used the laser rifle probably 5 times total so im definitley not an expert on it so any suggestions or comments about that or the mass driver would be appreciated It was actually this OP that made me try MD, dude I love it. Its definitely fine where its at, takes some practice. But in no way is it overpowered.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:42:00 - [24] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: theschizogenious wrote: thanks red yeah ive used the laser rifle probably 5 times total so im definitley not an expert on it so any suggestions or comments about that or the mass driver would be appreciated It was actually this OP that made me try MD, dude I love it. Its definitely fine where its at, takes some practice. But in no way is it overpowered. thank you upon further reflection to the posts made i have removed the need for a reduction in clip size suggestion
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:48:00 - [25] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: theschizogenious wrote: thanks red yeah ive used the laser rifle probably 5 times total so im definitley not an expert on it so any suggestions or comments about that or the mass driver would be appreciated It was actually this OP that made me try MD, dude I love it. Its definitely fine where its at, takes some practice. But in no way is it overpowered. thank you upon further reflection to the posts made i have removed the need for a reduction in clip size suggestion Ya honestly while using it I'd like to see maybe 1 more shot in the clip. But I just skilled into advanced and the one I use is only 6 shot, so maybe I'll think diff when I get the 8 shot version.
Ragmesesis The Lusitans 6	Posted - 2013.01.27 07:19:00 - [26] - Quote I think the weapons you buy should be more noticeable from the weapons that you start on. I pay i think 200k for 20 weapons and they were not too much diferent from the start pack of weapons you have. I was like... man i just wasted 200k in weapons that i dont see minimal results. Today i got my first big score with a starter pack weapon, it seems a wast of time and money to buy market weapons and thats bad because the economy does not flow
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.27 16:22:00 - [27] - Quote Ragmesesis wrote: I think the weapons you buy should be more noticeable from the weapons that you start on. I pay i think 200k for 20 weapons and they were not too much diferent from the start pack of weapons you have. I was like... man i just wasted 200k in weapons that i dont see minimal results. Today i got my first big score with a starter pack weapon, it seems a wast of time and money to buy market weapons and thats bad because the economy does not flow this is the exact reason why i made the op
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.27 21:25:00 - [28] - Quote shameless bump
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.28 01:02:00 - [29] - Quote nobody else has any views on any of the guns?
Ragmesesis The Lusitans 6	Posted - 2013.01.28 02:48:00 - [30] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: shameless bump is that for me?

theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.28 11:48:00 - [31] - Quote noooo?
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.02.10 03:51:00 - [32] - Quote bump
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.10 06:46:00 - [33] - Quote I've tested the LR only briefly in a very poor environment, (died 3-4 times to a Madrugar, twice to a Sniper, and once to an Exile AR, with about 4 of those being my LR DS), and--so far--can conclude that overheat on this weapon isn't the problem. I suspect it's more related to Damage increase over duration of fire. You don't have to hit a target afaik, but can heat your weapon prior to landing a hit and have a DPS increase. Really, even low-skilled in it, I managed to get a couple kills in a battle where my entire team decided it was better to just stay in the redzone after a few minutes. Range isn't the issue at my skill either, as it actually doesn't have that great of range at all. Targets which I thought should have been in range were not. Also, it gives away your position very well, though it seems most would rather not try to chase you down. ..if that's any indication. I'll try it again later; shortly actually.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:27:00 - [34] - Quote I think that the proposed changes of the OP would create some ripples we don't want. Laser rifle skills don't work, so it's hard to see how they balance. Making the Laser heat FASTER makes the damage output spike to instant facemelt too fast. the skills working would reduce the rate of heat gain, thus making it harder to heat up the damage of a laser too quickly as an example. Assault rifles: ARs are more lethal than HMGs in the matchmaking bracket i'm at. While i think the nerfhammer may have hit too hard, i do not believe reversal to the old stuff is a good idea. it is intended that you must use a large portion of the clip to achieve massacre level damage. other weapons: Being on the recieving end is not sufficient to declare they need work. You have to testfire them. I again must use the laser as an example. If you fire it at it's long range optimal you melt people fast. if you shoot me with it up close i can make dinner and bludgeon you to death before you break my shields. People ***** about the mass driver and call it a noobtube. But until they take it out for a spin they don't realize just how much practice it needs to be effective. HMGs are really a niche weapon that fails against clueless berks and outside it's niche. Any weapon will smear you if you get caught by surprise. Balance considerations are from a team standpoint, not from a 1v1 standpoint and I disagree that this should change. Some weapons are worthless at certain ranges, and many weapons are utterly without merit versus vehicles. it's all very complex but I will concede the level 2/4 weapons like the burst AR and the breach need some work. The assault forge for instance does not need a buff, at all, but even a small nerf to the wrong stat can make it worthless.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:39:00 - [35] - Quote Having tested the LR a bit more, I'm not convinced it is really overpowered, so much as it appears to be on the other end of it. I'm guessing--with high enough skills all weapons are devastating as I know the LR and Geks can be. I did kill one heavy with it today in short order, but that was just one that didn't immediately get out of the way. Also got a few other kills; again, quite quickly. It's a nice weapon because it doesn't suffer from recoil, which is its primary benefit. So, having been on the other end of it, (as opposed to be killed by it), I've changed my opinion a little, and so, I think differently. Suits are way under powered; they die to easily even if you invest mods and skill into them. Granted, you can still get a tank, but the removal of the scaling of resistance/armor/shields up into the higher levels was probably a bad idea. Having more equipment slots is only so useful, and needing proto gear to fit the better mods just to up your survivability as an only option is probably a bad idea. tl;dr: It's not necessarily the weapons, and more likely the drop suits that are a problem.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 09:14:00 - [36] - Quote Mars El'Theran wrote: Having tested the LR a bit more, I'm not convinced it is really overpowered, so much as it appears to be on the other end of it. I'm guessing--with high enough skills all weapons are devastating as I know the LR and Geks can be. I did kill one heavy with it today in short order, but that was just one that didn't immediately get out of the way. Also got a few other kills; again, quite quickly. It's a nice weapon because it doesn't suffer from recoil, which is its primary benefit. So, having been on the other end of it, (as opposed to be killed by it), I've changed my opinion a little, and so, I think differently. Suits are way under powered; they die to easily even if you invest mods and skill into them. Granted, you can still get a tank, but the removal of the scaling of resistance/armor/shields up into the higher levels was probably a bad idea. Having more equipment slots is only so useful, and needing proto gear to fit the better mods just to up your survivability as an only option is probably a bad idea. tl;dr: It's not necessarily the weapons, and more likely the drop suits that are a problem. survivability of the dropsuits was nerfed HARD back in beta.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2013.03.19 23:28:00 - [37] - Quote thread rezz if we let this topic die then ccp will balance guns by looking at unbalanced pub matches and we as vets will lose as a whole
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 6	Posted - 2013.03.20 21:08:00 - [38] - Quote I have tried my hand at mass drivers, assault rifles, snipers, and HMGs. This is my personal experience: HMGs: They are a lot of fun and excel at CQC although with sharpshooter can get some pretty decent mid-range ability. I feel that the reason why some people say that they are a bit unfair is due to the fact that certain maps can end up being very CQC so the gun is favored heavily. However on more open maps having a HMG can be difficult so once more open, expansive maps are done that could be a balancing factor. Rating: BALANCED With the current maps it has a bit more reach than might be fair but in future it may be appropriate. Snipers: The biggest thing with snipers is that currently their range far exceeds their ability to be practically used. If they had a variable zoom and bigger maps then snipers would actually be able to act like true snipers, as they are right now by the time you can actually see anything in the sights you are within AR or LR range which makes no sense for a sniper. Another big thing to note is that a sniper actually ends up being more of an area suppression tool so while the may seem over powered on a game where the sole goal is to kill your opponents but if there is any objectives they are often useless at taking them due to how far away they are. Personal note: Hunting snipers in my dropship is great fun, just saying. Rating: NEEDS WORK As it stands snipers are extremely difficult to use past mid-range which makes LRs and ARs superior in my opinion. Mass Drivers: I feel the niche factor in MDs is a bit more conditional than any other weapon, mostly because it is not just a range thing but also a trajectory thing. Example: Trying to shoot someone on top of the catwalk above objective B on Ashland is a very difficult task due to the arc of the shot you will probably end up either over- or undershooting shooting them and your ROF is too slow to kill them before they move. So when you get killed by a mass driver they probably in a position of advantage for their weapon so yes, expect to die. However if they are in a position of disadvantage the mass driver can be almost useless, i.e. at mid-range trying to hit a target who is coming up a slope at you. Rating: BALANCED It is very flexible in the right situations and hopeless in others, smart use of battle field terrain makes big differences. Assault Rifles: To be honest, with the current map sizes ARs are a bit overpowered. They are effective at all ranges and can sometimes outcompete niche weapons in their niches. Snipers have a hard time getting out of their range and still being able to hit anything (so they are effective current long-range values), they good at both CQC and mid-range making them overall superior to any other weapon (is there even a point to a LR when you have an AR with the same range but is also good at CQC?). I have heard accounts of high-end players being able to out DPS a HMG, which is stupid if it is true. Rating: NEEDS WORK An AR should not be able to out compete niche weapons when the niche weapon should have the advantage. Shotguns are kings of super-CQC, HMGs of CQC, LRs of mid-range, and snipers of long-range with ARs being useful at short to mid range making it flexible but not dominant. I think a reduced effectiveness at longer ranges would be more in order or maps that allow niche weapons to actually function well. To all: This is my personal view which I am trying to do in an objective manner. I am human and so are you so none of us are perfect.
Adstellarum G I A N T 7	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:20:00 - [39] - Quote you are all forgetting the fact that Dmg mods particularly comlpex damage mod stacking is the real problem... until it is fixed the weapons would not be able to get a proper evaluation in terms of what needs to be nerfed/buffed
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 575	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:24:00 - [40] - Quote The mass driver could use a bit less per clip, it was fine before but it's a bit overkill after that buff. At 5 per load it'll be fine

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 575	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:27:00 - [41] - Quote The mass driver could use a bit less per clip, it was fine before but it's a bit overkill after that buff. At 5 per load it'll be fine. HOWEVER it needs a velocity/drop increase and decrease respectively
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 6	Posted - 2013.03.21 00:33:00 - [42] - Quote The stacking mods need to be fixed, not the MD. It already takes 3-4 shots (if they all hit) to kill someone, reducing it to 5 per means you can miss 1 shot before you have to reload and reload = death. Although I wouldn't mind the clip size reduced if I got more spare ammo though. If reduced to 5 per clip that means the most you could hope for is 3 kills, maybe 4 if you make every shot count, before you are completely out of ammo and have little to show for it.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2013.05.03 15:56:00 - [43] - Quote the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit.
Lynn Beck Forsaken Legion-0 43	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:29:00 - [44] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit. Unlike button? I use the standard levels and those are pretty darn useful, I can kill everything except snipers and EXO-5, which is working as intended. Edit: TF2 Nade launchers? GO PLAY TF2 THEN NOOB. If you really want that, just Hive+nades. There ya go, fused GL
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2013.05.03 18:47:00 - [45] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: theschizogenious wrote: the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit. Unlike button? I use the standard levels and those are pretty darn useful, I can kill everything except snipers and EXO-5, which is working as intended. Edit: TF2 Nade launchers? GO PLAY TF2 THEN NOOB. If you really want that, just Hive+nades. There ya go, fused GL pfft yes i am def a noob for thinking that grendes should blow up after a set amount of time instead of it being only when they hit something. and do you even think before you post? all you did was help prove my point with your weak argument. "i can kill EVERYTHING except snipers and EXO-5" (adv md) so your idea of a balanced weapon is one where you can only be beaten by either a ridiculous range disadvantage or a better version of your weapon? and i wasn't referencing tf2 i meant simply that if it goes for a certain amount of time like 3 seconds without hitting anything then it should explode.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 190	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:02:00 - [46] - Quote shameless bump


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