DUST Search - [suggestion] a possible solution to making weapons balanced

Mars El'Theran wrote:

Having tested the LR a bit more, I'm not convinced it is really overpowered, so much as it appears to be on the other end of it. I'm guessing--with high enough skills all weapons are devastating as I know the LR and Geks can be.

I did kill one heavy with it today in short order, but that was just one that didn't immediately get out of the way. Also got a few other kills; again, quite quickly. It's a nice weapon because it doesn't suffer from recoil, which is its primary benefit.

So, having been on the other end of it, (as opposed to be killed by it), I've changed my opinion a little, and so, I think differently.

Suits are way under powered; they die to easily even if you invest mods and skill into them. Granted, you can still get a tank, but the removal of the scaling of resistance/armor/shields up into the higher levels was probably a bad idea. Having more equipment slots is only so useful, and needing proto gear to fit the better mods just to up your survivability as an only option is probably a bad idea.

tl;dr: It's not necessarily the weapons, and more likely the drop suits that are a problem.

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theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.28 11:48:00 - [31] - Quote noooo?
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.02.10 03:51:00 - [32] - Quote bump
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.10 06:46:00 - [33] - Quote I've tested the LR only briefly in a very poor environment, (died 3-4 times to a Madrugar, twice to a Sniper, and once to an Exile AR, with about 4 of those being my LR DS), and--so far--can conclude that overheat on this weapon isn't the problem. I suspect it's more related to Damage increase over duration of fire. You don't have to hit a target afaik, but can heat your weapon prior to landing a hit and have a DPS increase. Really, even low-skilled in it, I managed to get a couple kills in a battle where my entire team decided it was better to just stay in the redzone after a few minutes. Range isn't the issue at my skill either, as it actually doesn't have that great of range at all. Targets which I thought should have been in range were not. Also, it gives away your position very well, though it seems most would rather not try to chase you down. ..if that's any indication. I'll try it again later; shortly actually.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:27:00 - [34] - Quote I think that the proposed changes of the OP would create some ripples we don't want. Laser rifle skills don't work, so it's hard to see how they balance. Making the Laser heat FASTER makes the damage output spike to instant facemelt too fast. the skills working would reduce the rate of heat gain, thus making it harder to heat up the damage of a laser too quickly as an example. Assault rifles: ARs are more lethal than HMGs in the matchmaking bracket i'm at. While i think the nerfhammer may have hit too hard, i do not believe reversal to the old stuff is a good idea. it is intended that you must use a large portion of the clip to achieve massacre level damage. other weapons: Being on the recieving end is not sufficient to declare they need work. You have to testfire them. I again must use the laser as an example. If you fire it at it's long range optimal you melt people fast. if you shoot me with it up close i can make dinner and bludgeon you to death before you break my shields. People ***** about the mass driver and call it a noobtube. But until they take it out for a spin they don't realize just how much practice it needs to be effective. HMGs are really a niche weapon that fails against clueless berks and outside it's niche. Any weapon will smear you if you get caught by surprise. Balance considerations are from a team standpoint, not from a 1v1 standpoint and I disagree that this should change. Some weapons are worthless at certain ranges, and many weapons are utterly without merit versus vehicles. it's all very complex but I will concede the level 2/4 weapons like the burst AR and the breach need some work. The assault forge for instance does not need a buff, at all, but even a small nerf to the wrong stat can make it worthless.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:39:00 - [35] - Quote Having tested the LR a bit more, I'm not convinced it is really overpowered, so much as it appears to be on the other end of it. I'm guessing--with high enough skills all weapons are devastating as I know the LR and Geks can be. I did kill one heavy with it today in short order, but that was just one that didn't immediately get out of the way. Also got a few other kills; again, quite quickly. It's a nice weapon because it doesn't suffer from recoil, which is its primary benefit. So, having been on the other end of it, (as opposed to be killed by it), I've changed my opinion a little, and so, I think differently. Suits are way under powered; they die to easily even if you invest mods and skill into them. Granted, you can still get a tank, but the removal of the scaling of resistance/armor/shields up into the higher levels was probably a bad idea. Having more equipment slots is only so useful, and needing proto gear to fit the better mods just to up your survivability as an only option is probably a bad idea. tl;dr: It's not necessarily the weapons, and more likely the drop suits that are a problem.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 09:14:00 - [36] - Quote Mars El'Theran wrote: Having tested the LR a bit more, I'm not convinced it is really overpowered, so much as it appears to be on the other end of it. I'm guessing--with high enough skills all weapons are devastating as I know the LR and Geks can be. I did kill one heavy with it today in short order, but that was just one that didn't immediately get out of the way. Also got a few other kills; again, quite quickly. It's a nice weapon because it doesn't suffer from recoil, which is its primary benefit. So, having been on the other end of it, (as opposed to be killed by it), I've changed my opinion a little, and so, I think differently. Suits are way under powered; they die to easily even if you invest mods and skill into them. Granted, you can still get a tank, but the removal of the scaling of resistance/armor/shields up into the higher levels was probably a bad idea. Having more equipment slots is only so useful, and needing proto gear to fit the better mods just to up your survivability as an only option is probably a bad idea. tl;dr: It's not necessarily the weapons, and more likely the drop suits that are a problem. survivability of the dropsuits was nerfed HARD back in beta.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2013.03.19 23:28:00 - [37] - Quote thread rezz if we let this topic die then ccp will balance guns by looking at unbalanced pub matches and we as vets will lose as a whole
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 6	Posted - 2013.03.20 21:08:00 - [38] - Quote I have tried my hand at mass drivers, assault rifles, snipers, and HMGs. This is my personal experience: HMGs: They are a lot of fun and excel at CQC although with sharpshooter can get some pretty decent mid-range ability. I feel that the reason why some people say that they are a bit unfair is due to the fact that certain maps can end up being very CQC so the gun is favored heavily. However on more open maps having a HMG can be difficult so once more open, expansive maps are done that could be a balancing factor. Rating: BALANCED With the current maps it has a bit more reach than might be fair but in future it may be appropriate. Snipers: The biggest thing with snipers is that currently their range far exceeds their ability to be practically used. If they had a variable zoom and bigger maps then snipers would actually be able to act like true snipers, as they are right now by the time you can actually see anything in the sights you are within AR or LR range which makes no sense for a sniper. Another big thing to note is that a sniper actually ends up being more of an area suppression tool so while the may seem over powered on a game where the sole goal is to kill your opponents but if there is any objectives they are often useless at taking them due to how far away they are. Personal note: Hunting snipers in my dropship is great fun, just saying. Rating: NEEDS WORK As it stands snipers are extremely difficult to use past mid-range which makes LRs and ARs superior in my opinion. Mass Drivers: I feel the niche factor in MDs is a bit more conditional than any other weapon, mostly because it is not just a range thing but also a trajectory thing. Example: Trying to shoot someone on top of the catwalk above objective B on Ashland is a very difficult task due to the arc of the shot you will probably end up either over- or undershooting shooting them and your ROF is too slow to kill them before they move. So when you get killed by a mass driver they probably in a position of advantage for their weapon so yes, expect to die. However if they are in a position of disadvantage the mass driver can be almost useless, i.e. at mid-range trying to hit a target who is coming up a slope at you. Rating: BALANCED It is very flexible in the right situations and hopeless in others, smart use of battle field terrain makes big differences. Assault Rifles: To be honest, with the current map sizes ARs are a bit overpowered. They are effective at all ranges and can sometimes outcompete niche weapons in their niches. Snipers have a hard time getting out of their range and still being able to hit anything (so they are effective current long-range values), they good at both CQC and mid-range making them overall superior to any other weapon (is there even a point to a LR when you have an AR with the same range but is also good at CQC?). I have heard accounts of high-end players being able to out DPS a HMG, which is stupid if it is true. Rating: NEEDS WORK An AR should not be able to out compete niche weapons when the niche weapon should have the advantage. Shotguns are kings of super-CQC, HMGs of CQC, LRs of mid-range, and snipers of long-range with ARs being useful at short to mid range making it flexible but not dominant. I think a reduced effectiveness at longer ranges would be more in order or maps that allow niche weapons to actually function well. To all: This is my personal view which I am trying to do in an objective manner. I am human and so are you so none of us are perfect.
Adstellarum G I A N T 7	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:20:00 - [39] - Quote you are all forgetting the fact that Dmg mods particularly comlpex damage mod stacking is the real problem... until it is fixed the weapons would not be able to get a proper evaluation in terms of what needs to be nerfed/buffed
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 575	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:24:00 - [40] - Quote The mass driver could use a bit less per clip, it was fine before but it's a bit overkill after that buff. At 5 per load it'll be fine

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 575	Posted - 2013.03.20 23:27:00 - [41] - Quote The mass driver could use a bit less per clip, it was fine before but it's a bit overkill after that buff. At 5 per load it'll be fine. HOWEVER it needs a velocity/drop increase and decrease respectively
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 6	Posted - 2013.03.21 00:33:00 - [42] - Quote The stacking mods need to be fixed, not the MD. It already takes 3-4 shots (if they all hit) to kill someone, reducing it to 5 per means you can miss 1 shot before you have to reload and reload = death. Although I wouldn't mind the clip size reduced if I got more spare ammo though. If reduced to 5 per clip that means the most you could hope for is 3 kills, maybe 4 if you make every shot count, before you are completely out of ammo and have little to show for it.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2013.05.03 15:56:00 - [43] - Quote the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit.
Lynn Beck Forsaken Legion-0 43	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:29:00 - [44] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit. Unlike button? I use the standard levels and those are pretty darn useful, I can kill everything except snipers and EXO-5, which is working as intended. Edit: TF2 Nade launchers? GO PLAY TF2 THEN NOOB. If you really want that, just Hive+nades. There ya go, fused GL
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2013.05.03 18:47:00 - [45] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: theschizogenious wrote: the biggest problem for me is really the fact that when you get hit by it your guy ends up looking in a different direction. and that makes it effective at all ranges. they should take out that feature and put a fuse on the grenades so that it gains a range limit. Unlike button? I use the standard levels and those are pretty darn useful, I can kill everything except snipers and EXO-5, which is working as intended. Edit: TF2 Nade launchers? GO PLAY TF2 THEN NOOB. If you really want that, just Hive+nades. There ya go, fused GL pfft yes i am def a noob for thinking that grendes should blow up after a set amount of time instead of it being only when they hit something. and do you even think before you post? all you did was help prove my point with your weak argument. "i can kill EVERYTHING except snipers and EXO-5" (adv md) so your idea of a balanced weapon is one where you can only be beaten by either a ridiculous range disadvantage or a better version of your weapon? and i wasn't referencing tf2 i meant simply that if it goes for a certain amount of time like 3 seconds without hitting anything then it should explode.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 190	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:02:00 - [46] - Quote shameless bump


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