| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mark Burkhart
UnReaL.
0
   |
Posted - 2013.02.27 19:21:00 -
[91] - Quote
Crucias Soulreaver wrote:I also agree with the OP; however, I would like to add the following...
Either:
1) Prevent Heavies from entering LAVs
2) Return the spool up time to the HMG
Having an LAV rock up, a heavy jump out and obliterate us within seconds really really gets old.
welll
1) Learn to use a AV gernade
2) The HMG never had a spool up time, and on that topic neither does any newer HMG in the real world have a spool up time, |
Slaytanical
DUST University
Ivy League
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 19:29:00 -
[92] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:i agree with the insta hit mecanics. That weapon is spinning to spit bullet. How come it fires without needing even a slight warm up ? Doesnt need to be 5 seconds. But heavies running and then insta spraying round the corner is fully dumb.
This alone would change a lot.
This ^^^ and again i say this ^^^^ +1  |
Mark Burkhart
UnReaL.
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 19:33:00 -
[93] - Quote
Slaytanical wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:i agree with the insta hit mecanics. That weapon is spinning to spit bullet. How come it fires without needing even a slight warm up ? Doesnt need to be 5 seconds. But heavies running and then insta spraying round the corner is fully dumb.
This alone would change a lot. This ^^^ and again i say this ^^^^ +1
Hmmm and i say HMMMM!!!! this whole things sounds oddly close to a shotgun around the corner and insta death.... Stop bitching and lvl your scan radius or better yet if you see someone around a corner just dont jump infront of them and say HI!!!!. Use your brain and expect the encounter and plan for a heavey or a scout if its a cqc instance
So case in point even adding a spool time to any gun especally the hmg would kill the class in refrance to the fact the heavey needs to be able to react and defend him/herself and thats gone COMPLEATLY if theres a spool time we might as well but our heads between our legs or just start useing forges in that case because the HMG would be total garbage at that point |
Coleman Gray
Coalition Of Goverments
49
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 20:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
As for the HMG range, look at you skills and look under heavy sharpshooter, thats why they look to have so much range.
Also even when the barrles align and its accuracy is at its peak, it becomes a problem because you have to keep that line on the target, People physically strafe faster than the HMG tracks while firing. So if you move the "accuracy" becomes a hinderance to the heavy, also if our behind cover, most of the intial spray bullets will hit the terrain more than you.
Only time a heavy is really effective is when his/her targets are in the open |
PAs Capone
G I A N T
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 20:23:00 -
[95] - Quote
In RL and in Dust, the barrels of a minigun (HMG) arent spining because the motor needs time to warm up to spit bullets, they spin to use a different barrel for different bullets to keep the heat of a single barrel down to fire more bullets in a shorter amount of time. If they tried to have the fire rate they do with a single barrel the barrel would over heat and warp making it liable to ruptures and rendering the gun useless.
Heavies do chew up people and plenty of bullets, but do you realize that it takes 75-90 bullets to kill someone other than a scout? thats 15-20% of our clip, nut much different than someone with an AR if they have the capability to aim it. As well as the DPS from a HMG is high, but thats only if all our bullets hit the target... that rarely happens due to our spread. If you are getting mashed by a heavy, you are either too close, or playing against a good heavy.
Stick with your squad, use tactics and flanking, use the appropriate tools and any job can be done. Inhibiting one player style to better your own does not balance, if you need someone to placate to you, get a bottle and have a nap.
If you want it done Right, Hire a Professional... |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1011
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 20:58:00 -
[96] - Quote
Since Vegas decided to lock my thread: BOOM. Copy/pasta.
Alright alright, let's take a step back and look at this issue (once more).
Allow me to explain why the HMG is fine the way it is and how I can directly compare the argument that it needs to be "fixed" to real-life politics.
The funny thing about real-life politics is that a lot of the time when the vast majority are focusing on one issue, another issue gets worked on "in secret". It's not -actually- worked on in secret so much as no-one noticed it while focusing on the big thing that everyone was ranting and raving about.
Que in the HMG argument...
So there's this thread (and I know I really shouldn't make another one but considering how many there already are, why not) called HMG needs an OVERHAUL ASAP and I'm going to directly comment on the issues provided.
1. ROM and Accuracy Rating:
The RoF (because I honestly have no idea what ROM is being as the 2000 numerical value is the weapon's Rate of Fire) is set that way because... Who'd have guessed... it's a Heavy Machine Gun. Interesting thing about Heavy Machine Guns is that they have a faster fire rate than your standard Assault Rifle and that's why they're in their own classification of weapon. Now, the accuracy rating might be a little sketchy BUT this is explained in the lore of the weapon - it's got these fancy things called Gyrostabilizers to keep it from going all over the place.
2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics:
It's called "Hitscan" and it was implemented for largely the same reason that everyone was complaining about the Scout suit being impervious to weapons fire. Ballistics mechanics, especially in an MMOFPS, don't work very well as you have to account for server lag, ping and a variety of other issues up to and including hitbox detection not catching up with the player animation.
3."Broadside"
Alright, to explain this one: ALL advanced tier 'aurum' weapons are set to act like Prototypes. This is nothing new, this has always been the case. The only reason the 'stormside' and the like are not currently in-game is because they're being worked on; even still, you have the 'Killstreak' (or whatever it is) GEK-38 that operates in exactly the same way.
4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot..
Again. Lore of the weapon. It's the same reason the Laser Rifle does more damage at longer range/the longer you hold down the trigger. Incidentally enough, the same people who QQ about the HMG are generally the same ones QQing about the Laser Rifle and Shotgun.
5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers
There are a NUMBER of reasons for this and not all of them are as obvious as you make it out to be.
The HMG can ONLY be used by a Heavy Dropsuit - meaning that they take a MASSIVE hit to their movement speed, turn speed, signature profile, signature precision, scan radius, inability to equip equipment slot items and a general lack of slots. All of that even comes at a MUCH higher cost than your Assault Suit (which is what I'd imagine you use because you keep mentioning the Assault Rifle).
Incoming MATH.
Gek-38 damage = 32.5 per shot.
Gek-38 rof = 750 (this does not change)
Standard HMG damage = 16.8
Standard HMG RoF = 2000 (this also does not change)
This equates to a grand total of 12.5 rounds per second or 406.25 Damage Per Second for the Gek-38
....and a total of 33.3> rounds per second or 554.4 Damage Per Second for the HMG.
This gets all the more interesting when you take into account skills and (what's this?) DAMAGE MODIFIERS!
The funny thing about Damage Modifiers currently is that they suffer no stacking penalty (at least in the fitting screen) so it's possible for a Prototype Assault Dropsuit to fit as many as FOUR Complex Damage Modifiers (+40% damage) to increase the damage of their assault rifle.
Ready for some BS?
An Advanced Assault Dropsuit can fit 3 Complex Damage Modifiers and all skills at level 5 can achieve a whopping 708.6875 DPS with his GEK-38 Assault Rifle.
Ready for some MORE BS?
A Heavy can never fit more than -TWO- Damage Modifiers at any given time, which puts him at just 846.71 DPS with a Standard HMG.
Now here's where the best part comes in.
The HMG will -ALWAYS- do 95% of it's total damage and drop in efficiency as the range increases unless one of two things occur. A.) They are crouching. B.) They are aiming for the head.
The AR will -ALWAYS- do 110% of it's total damage and drop in efficiency as the range increases unless they are aiming for the head.
So already the AR is doing -more- damage than the numerical value suggests and the HMG is doing -less- damage. Ontop of that the Headshot on an AR does 165% whereas the HMG (assuming you could land one in the first place) only does 147%.
Cross all of these factors in with the Assault Rifle's versatility in being able to be fitted with ANY dropsuit and you've got a perfectly balanced scenario with -SLIGHT- favor in the HMG, not some massive overpowering amount. |
Monty Mole Clone
The c64s
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:15:00 -
[97] - Quote
the only poblem i got with the hmg is how fast it can now rotate, its stupid fast. never used to be like this |
PAs Capone
G I A N T
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:21:00 -
[98] - Quote
Uhhhh... if you change its rotation speed you change the rate of fire... there-by reducing the DPS and our accuracy. (seeing how accuracy builds over length of fire). How is this not a nerf?
Again asking for something to be nerfed to placate to your play style at the expense of anothers is ridiculous. IF its about your AR being more effective, then take this into consideration, AR's are supposed to be Utility weapons, good at a variety of areas, not exceling in any one area. Stick your class's AOE (area of engagement) and learn to move WITH your team.
Those two things will increase your efficientcy in battle more than nerfing the HMG.
If you want it done Right, Hire a Professional... |
Monty Mole Clone
The c64s
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
PAs Capone wrote:Uhhhh... if you change its rotation speed you change the rate of fire... there-by reducing the DPS and our accuracy. (seeing how accuracy builds over length of fire). How is this not a nerf?
Again asking for something to be nerfed to placate to your play style at the expense of anothers is ridiculous. IF its about your AR being more effective, then take this into consideration, AR's are supposed to be Utility weapons, good at a variety of areas, not exceling in any one area. Stick your class's AOE (area of engagement) and learn to move WITH your team.
Those two things will increase your efficientcy in battle more than nerfing the HMG.
If you want it done Right, Hire a Professional...
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:i agree with the insta hit mecanics. That weapon is spinning to spit bullet. How come it fires without needing even a slight warm up ? Doesnt need to be 5 seconds. But heavies running and then insta spraying round the corner is fully dumb.
This alone would change a lot.
As it is right now a heavy HMG versus scout/logi/assault SMG=
heavy skills 3X versus sidearm 1X skills.
In other words its faster to level an SMG and place four complex sidearm damage mods and then go mano a mano HMG versus SMG.
SMG wins due to headshot bonus and at distances of 1m the HMG has problems with targeting.
No headshot bonus on HMG= dead heavy.
Try out the heavy HMG combo and see how "op" it is versus a leveled SMG.
|
|
|
Metatron Celestias
Dangerously Designed
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:34:00 -
[101] - Quote
The heavy is the perfect example of Amarrian might the devs wanted to convey. Anything less and you have....well, what are the other races? |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative
50
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
I have a feeling that Dust is more about keeping the ISK balanced than the K/D ratio. I'll be honest, I have no idea what an assault suit costs. However, if I call in a Sica for 650,000 ISK, I hope it to do about 650,000 ISK in damage before it gets killed. That means if I go 20:1 in a tank and the suits I'm killing average at 32,500 ISK, I've made even return. But other people see that and wonder why CCP would allow a person to go 20:1.
People see heavies that steamroll and they complain all day but never realize that a heavy is EXPENSIVE. My K/D ratio will probably be over 1 in every match, but that doesn't mean that my ISK destroyed vs. ISK spent is over 1. I feel like it isn't wholly balanced in a K/D sense, but in an ISK sense it absolutely is. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1013
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
Metatron Celestias wrote:The heavy is the perfect example of Amarrian might the devs wanted to convey. Anything less and you have....well, what are the other races?
Gallente would focus more on damage potential with some armor tanking, but not as to sacrifice their speed. A good offense is a good defense.
Caldari would focus more on long-range combat and fall back on their heavy shielding as their primary defense. A good defense is a good offense.
Minmatar would just skate around on rusted out roller skates taking pot shots as they flew across the map with their jet packs; occasionally making a kill but more than likely dying.
|
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
268
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:42:00 -
[104] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower. |
Kelshaw Xu
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
68
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
Metatron Celestias wrote:The heavy is the perfect example of Amarrian might the devs wanted to convey. Anything less and you have....well, what are the other races?
Umm... the HMG is old school Minmatar tech, I'd be surprised if an Amarrian would dirty his hands holding one...
as far as the HMG needs fixing? No I don't think so...
Now damage mods.. that needs fixing. They don't penalize for stacking mods. Even though the Info on them say otherwise. So long as damage mods are broken, there will be players who will stack as many as possible. Please fix the damage mods then fine tune the weapons. Can't exactly get good data if the numbers are skewed. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1013
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:46:00 -
[106] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower.
Try Aiming down the sights when you fire. Scout suit at close range can strafe out of the way it's so slow xD |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
268
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:47:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kelshaw Xu wrote:Metatron Celestias wrote:The heavy is the perfect example of Amarrian might the devs wanted to convey. Anything less and you have....well, what are the other races? Umm... the HMG is old school Minmatar tech, I'd be surprised if an Amarrian would dirty his hands holding one... as far as the HMG needs fixing? No I don't think so... Now damage mods.. that needs fixing. They don't penalize for stacking mods. Even though the Info on them say otherwise. So long as damage mods are broken, there will be players who will stack as many as possible. Please fix the damage mods then fine tune the weapons. Can't exactly get good data if the numbers are skewed.
Which is funny cause the heavy suit is Amarrian. |
Monkxx
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:47:00 -
[108] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:I have a feeling that Dust is more about keeping the ISK balanced than the K/D ratio. I'll be honest, I have no idea what an assault suit costs. However, if I call in a Sica for 650,000 ISK, I hope it to do about 650,000 ISK in damage before it gets killed. That means if I go 20:1 in a tank and the suits I'm killing average at 32,500 ISK, I've made even return. But other people see that and wonder why CCP would allow a person to go 20:1.
People see heavies that steamroll and they complain all day but never realize that a heavy is EXPENSIVE. My K/D ratio will probably be over 1 in every match, but that doesn't mean that my ISK destroyed vs. ISK spent is over 1. I feel like it isn't wholly balanced in a K/D sense, but in an ISK sense it absolutely is.
There should be an Indicator in the top right corner of the HUD which will show up the total ISK cost of the current dropsuit/vehicle fit. When you kill someone the ISK number goes down according to their total ISK cost of the dropsuit/vehicle. When your ISK Indicator reaches zero you will go BOOM BOOM. This will balance everything, including HAVs, Heavies, Snipers etc.
Where are my likes? |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
420
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower.
It is, although the the shield variant turns noticeably faster than the armor one, which makes 'em really mean in close quarters engagements. |
Monty Mole Clone
The c64s
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:49:00 -
[110] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is very hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed.
i think it should slow you down more than what it does, the speed at which you can pull a 180 is really fast |
|
|
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
269
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:49:00 -
[111] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower. Try Aiming down the sights when you fire. Scout suit at close range can strafe out of the way it's so slow xD
lol I can do it in a regular assault suit if I'm close enough. Strafing: a HMGs worst nightmare, right there with snipers, shotguns, SMGs and nades. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:50:00 -
[112] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower. Try Aiming down the sights when you fire. Scout suit at close range can strafe out of the way it's so slow xD
Its so slow that a scout/assault/logi jumping to the side can SMG kill a hmg heavy.
Takeing notes in my heavy suit playtime for what to skill in my scout or logi suits and SMG skills. |
Monty Mole Clone
The c64s
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower. Try Aiming down the sights when you fire. Scout suit at close range can strafe out of the way it's so slow xD lol I can do it in a regular assault suit if I'm close enough. Strafing: a HMGs worst nightmare, right there with snipers, shotguns, SMGs and nades.
i must be getting old lol
but i am sure that you never could turn as fast as what you can now |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
269
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
Its so slow that a scout/assault/logi jumping to the side can SMG kill a hmg heavy.
Takeing notes in my heavy suit playtime for what to skill in my scout or logi suits and SMG skills.
That's just mean  lol |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1014
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:
player rotation speed
eta. i have zero problem with the gun just how fast they can now rotate
Tracking while rotating is pretty hard because firing the thing severely slows down your turning speed. There was this guy who insisted that heavies turn at the same speed as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure their natural turning speed is slower. Try Aiming down the sights when you fire. Scout suit at close range can strafe out of the way it's so slow xD lol I can do it in a regular assault suit if I'm close enough. Strafing: a HMGs worst nightmare, right there with snipers, shotguns, SMGs and nades.
Oh but you see, they're all overpowered. Snipers, Shotguns - all of 'em.
 |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
269
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 22:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh but you see, they're all overpowered. Snipers, Shotguns - all of 'em.
if it's all OP, then nothings OP! |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
424
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 23:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
So funny that people do not understand that Heavies are both tank, and 'DPSers.' This isn't broken, this is working as intended.
It would be stupid to think HP is all they get on a Heavy. The entire point is to be able to have bigger badder weapons.
If you think it is OP, then use it!
I laugh at some of the things the OP stated though. I know my AR has better damage at range depending in my and my opponents sharp shooter skills. I also know that at range his weapons spread is huge and not nearly as accurate as an AR. More than half the bullets miss.
Heavies should not be balanced down to being equal to other suits. It should always take more than one person to take down a Heavy, otherwise they are pointless. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 23:09:00 -
[118] - Quote
Mark Burkhart wrote:Crucias Soulreaver wrote:I also agree with the OP; however, I would like to add the following...
Either:
1) Prevent Heavies from entering LAVs
2) Return the spool up time to the HMG
Having an LAV rock up, a heavy jump out and obliterate us within seconds really really gets old. welll 1) Learn to use a AV gernade 2) The HMG never had a spool up time, and on that topic neither does any newer HMG in the real world have a spool up time,
You're right. The M134 was developed in 1960, started production in 1962, and entered service in 1963. It has never had "spool up". |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
CRONOS.
231
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 03:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:I would like to note that the only issue I have with the HMG is the range. Their effective range is the same if not greater then the ARs. HMG should be deadly but right now it's a little too easy mode for me but I can deal with it by just head glitching.
Congrats! you just summed up 2 of the worst things in Dust!  Now seriously a slight range nerf would be ok for balance |
|
CCP Frame
C C P
C C P Alliance
470
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 03:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
Thread moved to Feedback/Requests section. |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |