DUST Search - HMG needs a OVERHAUL ASAP

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

High Commander' Rhnz wrote:

.
.

1. ROM and Accuracy Rating:
HMG has not only the best ROM for any weapon in the game, but it also has a higher accuracy rating then AR's. I hope I do not even have to explain how flawed this is.

2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics:
So weapon of +2000 ROM is given a instant hit mechanic...really Attention

It does not get any easier than that.

.
.

4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot..
This kinda thing that promotes Spray and pray tactics, which last time I checked is not even a tactic. Why are players being rewarded for holding R1.

5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers
Find it funny that suit designed to tank damage is able to out DPS other suits. Combine a DPS'er and a Tanker role together is never a good mix, and makes me question the thought process of the Devs

.
.

1. Get rid of the Instant hit for the HMG's make them actually have to lead to kill at Mid range. 2000 ROM is just too much for instant hit mechanics on any weapon.

2. Give the weapon a slight range nerf . Making it CQC weapon to slight mid range

You're mostly complaining about the DPS.
Having high DPS on paper doesn't necessarily mean good ability to project it.

Comments:

On Whys:
1&2) HMG's accuracy on mid and mid+ ranges are it's weak part. It is actually a bit too easy to kill a heavy 50m away with AR/LR.

3) Broadside is broken, yes.

4) that's okay, even tho I'm in favor of turning the accuracy other way around. Remember heavies have tough time hitting far away. They have to warp up a lot to get some accuracy, which gives enough time for targets to cover or even shoot the heavy.

5) Heavies cannot use HMG as freely, that's a huge cost.

On Suggestions:
1) Instant hit is fine, gameplaywise and (dreaded) realismwise.

2) Heavies operating range is already short enough.

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KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:02:00 - [31] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: . . 1. ROM and Accuracy Rating: HMG has not only the best ROM for any weapon in the game, but it also has a higher accuracy rating then AR's. I hope I do not even have to explain how flawed this is. 2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics: So weapon of +2000 ROM is given a instant hit mechanic...really It does not get any easier than that. . . 4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot.. This kinda thing that promotes Spray and pray tactics, which last time I checked is not even a tactic. Why are players being rewarded for holding R1. 5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers Find it funny that suit designed to tank damage is able to out DPS other suits. Combine a DPS'er and a Tanker role together is never a good mix, and makes me question the thought process of the Devs . . 1. Get rid of the Instant hit for the HMG's make them actually have to lead to kill at Mid range. 2000 ROM is just too much for instant hit mechanics on any weapon. 2. Give the weapon a slight range nerf . Making it CQC weapon to slight mid range You're mostly complaining about the DPS. Having high DPS on paper doesn't necessarily mean good ability to project it. Comments: On Whys: 1&2) HMG's accuracy on mid and mid+ ranges are it's weak part. It is actually a bit too easy to kill a heavy 50m away with AR/LR. 3) Broadside is broken, yes. 4) that's okay, even tho I'm in favor of turning the accuracy other way around. Remember heavies have tough time hitting far away. They have to warp up a lot to get some accuracy, which gives enough time for targets to cover or even shoot the heavy. 5) Heavies cannot use HMG as freely, that's a huge cost. On Suggestions: 1) Instant hit is fine, gameplaywise and (dreaded) realismwise. 2) Heavies operating range is already short enough.
High Commander' Rhnz Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:03:00 - [32] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: High Commander' Rhnz wrote: 3."Broadside" So wait a weapon that is a classified as a advanced HMG has the specs of a proto , but wait it also has less CPU and PG requirements then the Proto variant. This seems kinda familiar to an old a AR that was taken out of game because it was imbalanced. I believe it was even called the "Stormside". So CCP either give us back the Stormside or get rid of the broadside. Nope. 92 CPU - 10 PG Got a problem with heavies? Throw a grenade, shoot at the head, or ram the heavy with a LAV. Decent HMG users I have seen so far are Ruthra, RND squad (except Blackwater), Exmaple (?), 2-ton, Kryptix and Tuff tone. Anybody else should be somewhat easy to kill. Clearly you fail to counter any of my points lol
High Commander' Rhnz Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:10:00 - [33] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: High Commander' Rhnz wrote: . . 1. ROM and Accuracy Rating: HMG has not only the best ROM for any weapon in the game, but it also has a higher accuracy rating then AR's. I hope I do not even have to explain how flawed this is. 2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics: So weapon of +2000 ROM is given a instant hit mechanic...really It does not get any easier than that. . . 4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot.. This kinda thing that promotes Spray and pray tactics, which last time I checked is not even a tactic. Why are players being rewarded for holding R1. 5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers Find it funny that suit designed to tank damage is able to out DPS other suits. Combine a DPS'er and a Tanker role together is never a good mix, and makes me question the thought process of the Devs . . 1. Get rid of the Instant hit for the HMG's make them actually have to lead to kill at Mid range. 2000 ROM is just too much for instant hit mechanics on any weapon. 2. Give the weapon a slight range nerf . Making it CQC weapon to slight mid range You're mostly complaining about the DPS. Having high DPS on paper doesn't necessarily mean good ability to project it. Comments: On Whys: 1&2) HMG's accuracy on mid and mid+ ranges are it's weak part. It is actually a bit too easy to kill a heavy 50m away with AR/LR. 3) Broadside is broken, yes. 4) that's okay, even tho I'm in favor of turning the accuracy other way around. Remember heavies have tough time hitting far away. They have to warp up a lot to get some accuracy, which gives enough time for targets to cover or even shoot the heavy. 5) Heavies cannot use HMG as freely, that's a huge cost. On Suggestions: 1) Instant hit is fine, gameplaywise and (dreaded) realismwise. 2) Heavies operating range is already short enough. Im sorry but how is a weapon with 2000 RPM + Instant hit fine RoF is an issue in many games, and few Devs are even able to balance it. It took BF3 a year, and BO2 is the only game that has been successful enough to manage it from the start. RoF is especially hard to manage when you add instant hit. So yes, HMG+Instant hit, is a problem
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 70	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:12:00 - [34] - Quote HMG are supposed to be overpowered! It's a freakin Heavy Machine Gun, you're supposed to mow down people with it People these days...
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:12:00 - [35] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: I would like to note that the only issue I have with the HMG is the range. Their effective range is the same if not greater then the ARs. HMG should be deadly but right now it's a little too easy mode for me but I can deal with it by just head glitching. This. Make heavy like the heavy weapons guy from tf2. Murder you at close range and make him run for cover when hes far away from you.
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:16:00 - [36] - Quote While the HMG can reach out a bit, I would expect that considering the size of these maps and how slow we move. I already get stuck in a lot of situations where I have little cover and nowhere to go because I'm too slow and surrounded by guys that have ARs and are smart enough to keep their distance or use cover well. Say what you will about the HMGs accuracy rating in comparison to AR, but at least with an AR you can zoom in and place those bullets on someones head when that's all you can see over their cover while with an HMG it's a laughable attempt unless the player is a complete scrub.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:29:00 - [37] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Decent HMG users I have seen so far are Ruthra, RND squad (except Blackwater), Exmaple (?), 2-ton, Kryptix and Tuff tone. Anybody else should be somewhat easy to kill. ::slowly reloads his HMG, a single tear falling beneath his mask:: It's ok....it's alright....some day....::sniff::....some day....
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.01.19 18:31:00 - [38] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: Before every Heavy comes in here and starts crying," The HMG takes skill" ... looks at Taste. Let me just kindly point out the facts of why your HMG is imbalanced. 1. ROM and Accuracy Rating: HMG has not only the best ROM for any weapon in the game, but it also has a higher accuracy rating then AR's. I hope I do not even have to explain how flawed this is. 2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics: So weapon of +2000 ROM is given a instant hit mechanic...really It does not get any easier than that. 3."Broadside" So wait a weapon that is a classified as a advanced HMG has the specs of a proto , but wait it also has less CPU and PG requirements then the Proto variant. This seems kinda familiar to an old a AR that was taken out of game because it was imbalanced. I believe it was even called the "Stormside". So CCP either give us back the Stormside or get rid of the broadside. 4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot.. This kinda thing that promotes Spray and pray tactics, which last time I checked is not even a tactic. Why are players being rewarded for holding R1. 5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers Find it funny that suit designed to tank damage is able to out DPS other suits. Combine a DPS'er and a Tanker role together is never a good mix, and makes me question the thought process of the Devs Soooooooo when you add all these points together you get one pretty imbalance weapon. Hate to sink the Heavy parade but this weapon needs a complete overhaul. What I suggest is the following: 1. Get rid of the Instant hit for the HMG's make them actually have to lead to kill at Mid range. 2000 ROM is just too much for instant hit mechanics on any weapon. 2. Give the weapon a slight range nerf . Making it CQC weapon to slight mid range 1. HMGs gain no accuracy bonus for aiming down sights. All fire is Hip Fire. 2. Deviation on HMGs is terrible at anything beyond mid range unless you're able to train an enemy. If you're getting trained then you're probably doing something wrong. 3. It's an Aurum weapon, all the Aurum weapons do this. 4. They do get more accurate the longer they shoot, they also start at terrible accuracy. It's like hipfiring with the AR until a solid two or three seconds, which should give you ample time to run behind a box/wall/corner. 5. It's a gun. It's supposed to deal damage to Infantry. That's what it does. Not to mention it only just out-DPSs ARs.
TheWee BabySeamus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 3	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:10:00 - [39] - Quote BIG FAT FUC wrote: Agree 1000% with OP. Really they should only allow heavy suits to use sidearms with all their advantages. What advantages might you be speaking of?
Leviticus Krauthammer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:16:00 - [40] - Quote TheWee BabySeamus wrote: BIG FAT FUC wrote: Agree 1000% with OP. Really they should only allow heavy suits to use sidearms with all their advantages. What advantages might you be speaking of? He was speaking tongue-in-cheek

Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 642	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:27:00 - [41] - Quote TheWee BabySeamus wrote: BIG FAT FUC wrote: Agree 1000% with OP. Really they should only allow heavy suits to use sidearms with all their advantages. What advantages might you be speaking of? and you walked right into that one... oh boy
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:50:00 - [42] - Quote the larger the number the worst the accuracy just fyi dumb op
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:50:00 - [43] - Quote It's fine. Learn to flank, use cover, and stop crying. Note that I'm a shottie scout, so defending heavies who know what they're doing are the bane of my existence - fortunately they are rare.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:56:00 - [44] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: He does not counter any of my points. People won't counter your points because this is a thread we've seen 101 times, and yours is by no means the best.
Fanboy Slayer Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:17:00 - [45] - Quote Shameless necro bump.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:18:00 - [46] - Quote Who keeps necroing these?
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 29	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:21:00 - [47] - Quote Heavy Machine Guns are meant for breaching fortified positions, and for close quarters staying power. Any Assault that's decent with a shotgun can deal with him effectively... unless said heavy has support with him. This is not COD, get over it.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:34:00 - [48] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Who keeps necroing these? Probably QQ'ers who want to make sure CCP notices them.
Soght Toi Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 14	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:41:00 - [49] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: Leviticus Krauthammer wrote: Ummm... they're named Heavy Machine Gun for a reason. On the rare occasion I roll out my alt who is specced into heavy, I get tired of "lumbering" around the map. I find a friendly letter and camp it. My goal is to defend the letter and give my squad a safe place to spawn. I'm not sure why you keep belly-aching about a HMG nerf. If it is so OP why don't you spec into it and use it to your advantage? LOL, he does not counter any of my points, but instead insist for me to take advantage of a OP weapon. You heavies are truly a disgusting breed. Alright dude, I was going to tell you that your points sound fair and that Heavies are a little too strong. Since I've been a heavy and only just recently switched to Scout-Shotty. But...Come on, don't be like that "A truly disgusting breed." What?! Lol. That was unreasonable, and it makes it seem as if you take the game way to seriously, there's no need to act like all heavy's are biologically related and like you're racist against them. He gave his viewpoint, and while I agree that yours is more valid and less ignorant of the battlefield diversity CCP wants to incorporate into the game, there's no reason to be..."Mean" for lack of a better, appropriate term. Regardless, the points and suggestions you raised seem feasible as opposed to the "Heavies should have NO weapon and NO shields or armor and should just run around naked on the battlefield." Threads I've seen, so...Good job. It's a thread with a fair point and suggestions on how to fix the problem.
Scalesdini Universal Allies Inc. 58	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:43:00 - [50] - Quote I'm not sure why the OP and some other people in this thread think "HEAVIES ARE ONLY FOR DEFENDING", but you're silly. If CCP wanted heavies to only be able to defend, we wouldn't be able to walk more than a certain range away from objectives. See how we can do that now? That means heavies are for whatever the hell you want to use them for, same as any other suit in the game. Yes, dear OP, HMG is slightly overpowered right now. It is not nearly as bad as you think it is, you are just a bad player. The Toxin SMG out-DPS's the HMG (protip: SMG's get dmg bonus vs armor), buy a merc pack, equip flux grenades, and enjoy yourself when you see a heavy. I do it all the time to other heavies without the same speed advantage enjoyed by other suits and ** their faces off with it before they get me. Even if they have a Broadside. This works even better if he's a Type II/B/vk.1 heavy. The problem is, none of you dumb assaults, logis, or scouts ever** do this. This is not the heavy's fault, it is your own. The vast majority of flux grenades are used by heavies, because we're apparently the smartest players in the game. It's also because flux grenade + HMG + crowd = dead crowd. If you're crying about making a suit with flux grenades "just for heavies" (even though you should be using them on everyone, seriously only bads don't use flux grenades) copy your current suits and then alter them to have a flux grenade. This way, you just switch at a supply depot or upon death. If you notice particularly annoying heavies (or crowds, or shield tanks) you just swap your suit and pwn their faces. Reaaaaal simple stuff here. Or you could just use teamwork. Teamwork is seriously the most OP thing in the game.

Utsuru Kaiju IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:46:00 - [51] - Quote The HMG's are fine to me. The only thing I would suggest is to lower their accuracy and range slightly, and to add a slight spin-up time. Other than that I don't see a problem with how they are now.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 32	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:52:00 - [52] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: BIG FAT FUC wrote: Did you ever consider that the HMG is just the way the developers want i.e. this isn't COD maybe they want 3 out of 5 people using a HMG and not an AR. When watching the e3 video heavies are everywhere being supported by assault users. LOL, you clearly demonstrated how much you do not understand the game. Firstly, when did I ever mention Cod, and I do not even know how it is remotely applicable to this topic. Heavies are defensive support role designed to hold down positions. Support not slayer. Now why hell would you want 3/5 of your team defending objects. All Im suggesting pushing the heavy back to its support role, you know the role CCP intended for it to be. Who says they are support only? Only you that I've heard. Logi's are support. Heavys are push, kill and waddle on with their squad supporting them. A solo heavy is an easy heavy to kill. CCP has said they want the heavy to be feared. If your not a slayer how can you be feared?
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:53:00 - [53] - Quote Including OP, there are a bunch stupid people in here that have no idea how HMGs are supposed to work. I've got a pretty good collection of all your tears, can't wait until I sprinkle them on my nuts and drag them across your face.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.02.24 21:02:00 - [54] - Quote .................... You're joking, right?
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2013.02.24 21:03:00 - [55] - Quote It has almost as much range as the Assault Rifle and the spread doesn't doesn't increase over the longer range. I can drop 70-100 rounds with my Heavy Machine Gun and only be at 70% of the heat build up but already dealt over 1000 total damage if the shots have all connected with my target. The HMG needs more spread over the longer range of distance.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.24 21:05:00 - [56] - Quote 1. Increase the spread at a distance. Their damage at a distance is already laughable anyway, but at least they can still provide cover fire. 2. increase heat build up. To this day, I have yet to experience the negative side effects of heat build up. Do not nerf their range, do not lower their ROF, do not add a spool up time. It's called the "death machine", you should fear it, not charge at it with reckless abandonment.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.02.24 21:08:00 - [57] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: Leviticus Krauthammer wrote: Ummm... they're named Heavy Machine Gun for a reason. On the rare occasion I roll out my alt who is specced into heavy, I get tired of "lumbering" around the map. I find a friendly letter and camp it. My goal is to defend the letter and give my squad a safe place to spawn. I'm not sure why you keep belly-aching about a HMG nerf. If it is so OP why don't you spec into it and use it to your advantage? LOL, he does not counter any of my points, but instead insist for me to take advantage of a OP weapon. You heavies are truly a disgusting breed. HMGs don't have the range of ARs, nor do they have the damage output per round, plus we have to worry about overheating, and a long reload, and only one type of suit can carry them, which moves quite slow, and not a single one of them has an equipment slot. So... what is your problem with them?
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.24 22:33:00 - [58] - Quote Scalesdini wrote: Yes, dear OP, HMG is slightly overpowered right now. It is not nearly as bad as you think it is, you are just a bad player. The Toxin SMG out-DPS's the HMG (protip: SMG's get dmg bonus vs armor), buy a merc pack, equip flux grenades, and enjoy yourself when you see a heavy. I do it all the time to other heavies without the same speed advantage enjoyed by other suits and ** their faces off with it before they get me. Even if they have a Broadside. This works even better if he's a Type II/B/vk.1 heavy. The problem is, none of you dumb assaults, logis, or scouts ever** do this. This is not the heavy's fault, it is your own. The vast majority of flux grenades are used by heavies, because we're apparently the smartest players in the game. It's also because flux grenade + HMG + crowd = dead crowd.. Just to point out, the HMG also gets a damage bonus against armor. And to people asking for a spin-up time, that's a bad idea and I really shouldn't have to explain why at this point.
Tidaen Nova Corps Marines 20	Posted - 2013.02.24 23:24:00 - [59] - Quote Speaking as one who plays almost exclusively as a scout, heavies with HMG's don't really scare me that much. They are good at their primary purpose of spraying lead down range but are anchored to the heavy suits' lumbering gait and poor vision. I recommend not walking in front of one, it usually works for me.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.02.24 23:59:00 - [60] - Quote High Commander' Rhnz wrote: Before every Heavy comes in here and starts crying," The HMG takes skill" ... looks at Taste. Let me just kindly point out the facts of why your HMG is imbalanced. 1. ROM and Accuracy Rating: HMG has not only the best ROM for any weapon in the game, but it also has a higher accuracy rating then AR's. I hope I do not even have to explain how flawed this is. 2.ROM + Instant Hit mechanics: So weapon of +2000 ROM is given a instant hit mechanic...really It does not get any easier than that. 3."Broadside" So wait a weapon that is a classified as a advanced HMG has the specs of a proto , but wait it also has less CPU and PG requirements then the Proto variant. This seems kinda familiar to an old a AR that was taken out of game because it was imbalanced. I believe it was even called the "Stormside". So CCP either give us back the Stormside or get rid of the broadside. 4. HMG gets more accurate the longer they shoot.. This kinda thing that promotes Spray and pray tactics, which last time I checked is not even a tactic. Why are players being rewarded for holding R1. 5. HMG allows the Tank suit to out DPS the DPS'ers Find it funny that suit designed to tank damage is able to out DPS other suits. Combine a DPS'er and a Tanker role together is never a good mix, and makes me question the thought process of the Devs Soooooooo when you add all these points together you get one pretty imbalance weapon. Hate to sink the Heavy parade but this weapon needs a complete overhaul. What I suggest is the following: 1. Get rid of the Instant hit for the HMG's make them actually have to lead to kill at Mid range. 2000 ROM is just too much for instant hit mechanics on any weapon. 2. Give the weapon a slight range nerf . Making it CQC weapon to slight mid range Replies- Quite alot of this post shows you haven't even at least created an alt and tried out the gun and suit. Yes it is a beast, as per design. And that deign is not to be the same as all other games. It's a design that punishes a lack of teamwork and variety, but gets owned if people use team tactics. Yes, they rock in CQB, mostly in pub games. Ask people how they fair in Corp battles. 1- What do you mean by ROM? It's RPM, rounds per minute! Yes its RPM puts its dam/sec about 150dam more per sec than a basic assault rifle, but hey, that's its design. The basic Forge Gun does twice the basic HMG in one hit, is not given an accuracy, as the sniper rifle isn't. Ya think that should get a nurf? The accuracy rating is something that is not working as you think. For example, the basic tactical assault rifle has a rating of 55.9 and I can easily hit my target at max range. The HMG has a rating of a higher rating yet to suggest it has better actual accuracy than the Tac AR is laughable. At the HMG max range all I do to my targets is help keep the flies off. 2- At the max range we have there would be no leading the target in real life either. The Minigun will have it's 7.62 round on a 60m target in 0.07 of a second. No leading. Haha, I like the way when rounded it came to 007 3- Yes, I'm totally with you on the Broadside. I don't think there should be any weapons of a higher quality available in a lower tier. Stick them in the prototype tiers. 4- The HMG has roughly 1 second at the start of fire when it goes from a shotgun cone size of fire to cone roughly 1/3 smaller. It then stays at this accuracy until firing is stopped. The way you put phrase it a person could think that at the end of it's 5 or 6 second burst it has laser accuracy. It doesn't. It puts out a wall of lead. People want to headbutt said wall, I help them. 5- Yes, if you're unlucky or dumb enough to stand right in front of its muzzles. Once you get away from us, alot of our bullets miss, dropping our damage per second massively. Besides somebody standing as suggested, a warmed up laser at the moment has the highest potential damage per second. It's a hot knife through butter to us heavies, and we hate them. Unless it's a new user standing ten meters away, then we allow them to buff our suits before laughing and making a sieve out of them. Leave the HMG be, and use a mixed squad. Yes, pub games don't allow to have a full team the way you'd want, but I get owned in alot of games by assault and logi with ARs.



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