Am I the only one who thinks this?

Aw ok then I just thought it was weird when I died from a laser rifle and it barely touched my toe lol

What are you talking about laser rifles are not OP

Heavy suit with 800 points of shield and health together
Dies in 2 seconds what seems to be the problem

I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op.

lasers are for parameter sissies that run for the ropes when they have to face somebody clearly better than them.

They are definately not OP.

Just because they drop my almost 700 HP suit in 1.5 seconds from an unreachable range on these mostly very open maps doesn't make it OP. I mean, the amount of skill needed to use them is far less than the sniper rifles and they are the only weapon that is effective against personel, vehicles and installations, this still doesn't make them OP. That I could pick one up without any skills and go 18-1 doesn't mean anything either.

They do however have 1 drawback:

1. They're only effective at some range.

This thread is going to address the LR complaints. So please, if you have a rebuttel (and im not a bias *******, i believe maybe some can shed light on the otherside), make sure it is a rebuttel and NOT a broken record of arguments ive already debunked. If you want to argue with my logic, that is one thing, if you are going to repeat in some variation the quotes i am arguing, with out addressing my counter argument, then you are an insignificant critical thinker, and tbh, probably shouldn't have a right to vote in your country.

Logic people, logic, thats the currency of this topic.

OH MY GOD, ITS A LASER RIFLE!

"It only takes 5 seconds on anybody and it kills you!"

There are very few weapons that would not kill you in optimal if placed on you accurately for a full 5 seconds, LRs also build up heat damage.

"Well, I've been killed in two seconds!"

First, if your a scout, shut your mouth and get out of my topic. Otherwise, you were in optimal range, probably shield heavy (LRs deal shield bonus dmg), and the LR was most likely already heating up, the longer it runs (while draining ammo) the more dmg it deals. You also could of been in a weak suit, standard/militia are easy to make quick work of.

"Well i'm a heavy! Explain that you condescending stain to my eyes"

You have some disadvantages, such as slowness, its easy to keep a LR's accuracy on something that cant zigzag/move out of the way, meaning it will take the full brunt. This being said, ive never seen a heavy go down in 2 seconds from an LR, not saying it doesnt happen, weaker suits maybe its possible with a Viziam, but ive never seen it. Since naturally heavies are armour heavy they have the most resistance, to some degree it does make up for thier slowness.

Its no secret that higher-end heavy gear needs a buff, as well, so remember dont always look at the weapon killing you and think it's the weapon. I'd still say as far as LRs go vs Heavies, heavies do the job of tanking the longest in regards to LR, i wouldnt say its entirely broken. If you're in optimal range, that is your issue and you need to get out of it, sometimes you cant, be a little more aware next time.

*Next!*

"Its OP! The thing is unstoppable, simply put."

Its called CQC, just because your not equipped to deal with every single scenario does not make a weapon OP. You shouldnt be able to have a fair chance against an LR at range (excluding snipers obviously who beat everyone in range), the point is your in optimal.

KEEP IN MIND LRs DO NOT PERFORM AT ALL AT CLOSE RANGE. I would argue LRs have the hardest counter in the game, because you are simply ****** (especially as a logi which has no sidearm, as i am) if someone comes in close.

DO YOU WANT EVERY WEAPON TO HAVE THE SAME STATS, LET THERE BE 0 VARIATION OR CLOSE TO IT?
(If you answered yes to this rhetorical question, you're one of the reasons this game might die. Feel happy, killer of my dreams, slaughterer of competitive play. If this is the overwhelming feeling, i guess im just a runner in a speed walker's world)

And if you die from an LR 1v1 at close range its not the weapon, its because you are honestly not a good player (or are having a bad day) dont be butthurt, im stating a fact not an insult. We were all there once, but you're certainly not getting better by placing blame on other things.

*Next!*

"Well good luck getting close when you get pegged down all the time from a distance, you have no hope against it."

If you walked into a position where you are pinned down/in the open/in no way able to fall back to pull off a flank, then your playing the FPS wrong. Situational awareness is #1 in larger map FPS' and is essential in becoming a good player. Being in its optimal range will obviously get you killed quicker, keep this in mind when you see someone with an LR

If you are not soloing and have corp mates/friends, organize a flank, your pinned down so his attention is on you, probably thirsty for a kill, get your buddies to find away around, or atleast alleviate pressure so you have a chance to fall back.


Any LR player in corp of competent people will have players around him supporting him, so if that squad beats you, dont blame it on the LR, they have greater situational awareness and chemistry, case closed. Not the LR's fault. LR has a hard counter, you KNOW what you need to do, its about completing that goal and its far from impossible, especially if you're with buddies.

Game is not meant to be for a bunch of pubstars and solo artists, its ultimately a team game and has been presented as such by CCP, so when people need to really think through what they are arguing and NOT BE EXPECTING TO HAVE EQUAL FOOTING 1v1 IN EVERY SCENARIO, because that is not the point of the game.

Things can become OP, when there is never a hard counter to a weapon in combination with brute strength, that = OP (I.e. missile turrets of a couple builds ago), but do not start feeding CCP OP complaints because you are not equipped or are not as skilled as other players.

This is addressed equally to some top notch players who think, for whatever reason, in any given situation they should be able to see the same raw strength/dmg they see usually when kiling people. Use you're head you egomaniacs, there are counters for things, if you are in their optimal and not doing the correct moves to counter, you won't live.

Laser rifles have a major disadvantage. They are pathetic when the target is up close as the true damage potential of the rifle diminishes if the target is not at optimal range. If I am ever pegged by a laser rifle in my scout suit, my first is to close the distance between me and the rifle's point of origin as fast as possible and by any means possible.

You are consistent I must admit. Is there anything you actually like as is or isn't over powered?

I agree, lasers are tough. Getting killed by a single head shot from a good sniper is worse. Forged gunned in the middle of trashing most of their squad with my HMG is just miserable. I had only gotten five in a row and the Forge Gunner ruined my day. Must be OP.

Unless it is when I am using my forge gun. Then everyone else legs are OP.

In case you haven't used one a laser is actually not a perfect weapon. The gun has to be held on for awhile before the damage potential builds up to high levels. If the beam slips on and off the target the gun heats up so one must stop until it cools enough to use again. It will definitely broadcast your exact location to their laser gunners and their snipers. Not to mention the DS, HAV and Forge Gunners. It has good distance and you can see pretty well with it when scoped. But keeping it on the target is tough. Now if you get lucky you can finish off someone that has lost most of their armor and got too eager to let their Logi rep their armor or their shields recharge. And if they are focused on something else they only notice when they drop to the ground. That is true of any other weapon as well though.

Frankly I see it more as a terror weapon. I can use it to disperse a crowd just by playing the beam through them. Inspirational to witness.

Thranx your info on the laser rifle is off. The laser becomes more powerful as your fire it whether you are hitting a target or not. As a result you will see most "skilled" laser rifle users fire off to the side of their target and heat up there laser for a few moments then swing it across the enemy,.......this is almost an insta kill if you do this. I was on the other side watching Mr Zitro using his Viziam. He was melting fools with this weapon (never seemed to matter if they armor tanked or not they died in the same amount of time). Watching zitro was interesting but basically all he did was start shooting and then tried to target the enemy...as he continued shooting if he even knicked the guy their HP was demolished. Missing people with the laser is actually better for the laser user because when he does eventually run the laser over them they take serious dmg. If laser was changed such that it did additional dmg only when continuously hitting the target then lasers would likely not be overpowered.....or at least as bad as they are now.

Oh how strange i heard rumours that your corp turned into a HMG fat suit scrubs and laser rifle users.

Oh how strange i heard rumours that your corp turned into a HMG fat suit scrubs and laser rifle users.

Am I the only one who thinks this?

People tend to forget that 'closing the range' is a pathetic notion. The problem is that you can't close the range fast enough because the gun kills in no time at all and has a very long range. Come up with a better tactic to back up your argument.

Thranx your info on the laser rifle is off. The laser becomes more powerful as your fire it whether you are hitting a target or not. As a result you will see most "skilled" laser rifle users fire off to the side of their target and heat up there laser for a few moments then swing it across the enemy,.......this is almost an insta kill if you do this. I was on the other side watching Mr Zitro using his Viziam. He was melting fools with this weapon (never seemed to matter if they armor tanked or not they died in the same amount of time). Watching zitro was interesting but basically all he did was start shooting and then tried to target the enemy...as he continued shooting if he even knicked the guy their HP was demolished. Missing people with the laser is actually better for the laser user because when he does eventually run the laser over them they take serious dmg. If laser was changed such that it did additional dmg only when continuously hitting the target then lasers would likely not be overpowered.....or at least as bad as they are now.

Arent lazers good against shields? Isn't everyone shield tanking? Maybe those two are related? >_>

I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op.

Wait, isn't that non-disclosure agreement still in place? Admittedly I haven't seen it pop up lately, but...


Also, Lasguns are great, but it's all about placement. A good player realizes that standing out in the open where the lasgun is most effective is stupid and you should feel bad. Otherwise the AR has the advantage overall, but it's nice to see something rival it.

they are fine, but I have noticed advanced LR units are in danger of a heavy with a blindside HMG if they stand as far away as possible while still in range.... how does the HGM shoot that accuretly that far? that I might not know, but it has been a glitchy morning for me.

Rival it?????

More like makes everyother gun in this game look pathetic in comparison. Watching corp members swing the proto laser around in an arc and drop 4 enemies instantly is hardly what I call a rival to the AR...your lucky to get 3 kills in a single AR clip but usually its about 1 - 2 kills per clip.

Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds.

Where did you get those numbers from

99% of all statistics are made up on the spot (including this one)

Nah, the Creodon Breach AR, deals 46 damage? Weaponry III adds about 3 more damage, so it's approximately 50. 400 rounds per minute, about 6.5 shots per second, that's about an ideal 325 damage per second (if you're a good shot, and if you're at proto you should be close I figure), most suits have around 300 total hp or more depending on who you're fighting, but that's only 3 seconds to take out a base heavy or an especially heavy light suit.

And that rifle is fairly accurate too, not to mention the bonus AR skilling gives, with a good hip fire I think.

Anyway, those are the numbers I came up with and how.

This thread sucks.

Threads (especially thread titles) like these lead to crap game design.

The problem, as several people have repeatedly pointed out, is not the damage numbers. It's mostly the fact that you can cook the beam before you swipe. You are actually penalized for using the weapon properly because cooking ON target makes them move before the beam is cooked.

The problem is that CCP will not fix this problem, they will nerf numbers. Nerfing numbers is easy. Coding the proper behaviour is hard. After they nerf numbers the forum scrubs wont cry about it anymore and the weapon will never be fixed.

GG CCP and forum scrubs.

i use the proto laser with a proto suit. Ive been using the laser rifle since they were released. The viziam laser rifle has a 100 round clip and a default damage of 20 per round. 22 damage per shot if weaponry is lvl 5. One CDM(complex damage modifier) brings it up to about 24 damage per shot. I use two differn't suits right now. One has one CDM while the other has four. Both of them melt people but there is a huge difference between the first and second fitting in terms of dps. People tell me the stacking penalty doesn't work, and if so, that means my gun currently does around 30 damage per shot. That is HUGE for the laser rifle.

Each second the rifle heats up while firing, the damage it deals stacks on 20 (for my viziam) or 30 (for my particular suit). 1 sec = 30 DPS (damage per shot).
2 sec = 60 DPS. 3 sec = 90 DPS..... i dont know an exact RoF but lets say my viziam shoots 15 rounds in one second.
15 x 30 = 450//// that kills most standard suits right there (one second). 15 X 60 = 900 damage////// that kills everything short of an advanced heavy suit. 15 X 90........ can kill a militia LAV or Dropship.

the consequences for using that suit is that i only just have over 400 hp and as a result im kind of squishy. but the whole point is to drop people faster then they can drop me. Is it OP that i can almost use the LR as an AR now? maybe ;) but is the laser rifle OP in general?? i dont think so. The ELM and Standard LR are easy to avoid unless your cought in an open field for some reason. The viziam is a bit tougher for me because of how it can usually melt me as fast as i can melt the shooter, so it doesn't mix well because i try to stand my ground only to realize the guy may be able to outgun me.

some great things about damage mods.

Well, last night I finished match and snapped this picture.

Check out the top 3 on the opposite team. Yeap, you guessed it... all 3 used lasers.

Laser K/D Ratio
http://s9.postimage.org/6mo6jwcof/lasers.png

Lasers do more damage on shields than armor. If you have a skinny armor with a big fat shields, that won't help you.

hurr durr i can get those kills with a AR aswell. So whats the point? Good players doing a pub stomp nothing new about that. And hey if your team lets a bunch of laser rifle users in a very good overview position its their fault. Why do you think you are aible to see the beam all accross the map? It paints them for every 1 to get there and kill them up close. When i see a enemy laser then i try to flank them or pick up a laser by myself. Learn how to use teamwork ffs.

Learn how to use teamwork ffs.

Yes.
Lasers are not OP.

OFF TOPIC: Kinda like the teamwork we showed in the corp tourney Mr. 2nd place? I think we have the basics of teamwork down, if you don't think we do, then what does that say about Scrub Incorporated?

Lol teamwork is the answer to op lasers, how come you couldn't use "teamwork" to kill TARs? It's always don't nerf the op stuff I use but nerf the op stuff they use. Laser are over powered in how much damage they put out (sounds like how you described the TAR) they are amazing at range( which they should but there is no long range counter besides another laser) and they have almost perfect aim( no argument there). Sounds like the TAR to me but it has an even BIGGER clip (more than x3 the amount) and the only drawback people come up with it is bad at CQC.

Very simple you scrub. The tac AR has beeing used by your corp with rapid fire harware and was the superior weapon in all situations then. Now be quiet and be happy that you wasted 99$ on a cronus X. In my opinion you have no right to talk at all cause i consider these methods as cheating. And your K/D is based on times where you could abuse that. In realitiy you are a 0.5K/D n00b

Yet you still can't take down a laser rifle. I'm confused, because they never give me much trouble.

If you guys seriously can't manage to take down a laser rifle, I'm questioning how your corp won the tournament.

oh yeah but 70HP per hit with a tac AR was allright with damage mods and skillbooks combined is fair when used with modded hardware. And to top it the rate of fire on that thing was 789 rounds per minute. And that is higher then a normal AR. In fact the TAC AR has a bigger range then a laser rifle.

Laser rifles have a major disadvantage. They are pathetic when the target is up close as the true damage potential of the rifle diminishes if the target is not at optimal range. If I am ever pegged by a laser rifle in my scout suit, my first is to close the distance between me and the rifle's point of origin as fast as possible and by any means possible.

oh yeah but 70HP per hit with a tac AR was allright with damage mods and skillbooks combined is fair when used with modded hardware. And to top it the rate of fire on that thing was 789 rounds per minute. And that is higher then a normal AR. In fact the TAC AR has a bigger range then a laser rifle.

cause lasers actually have a drawback and nobody even remotely thought on using them until I started using them.

I still don't understand how you guys ***** about something that's actually completely fine and easy to counter.

ARs and every other gun use to be fine.

Since when was 0 recoil on a relatively cheap gun that has no weakness fine? Laser rifles have a weakness, unlike how ARs used to be.

Do you use an AR? The recoil is basically nothing, it's a non-factor. Whenever they implement the new scopes ARs will be back to where they were. TAC has a big recoil, meh idc never used a TAC.

Even with a Balac on old system I couldnt take out 4 opponents in under 5secs like I can with a charged viziam.

Lol implying we have trouble killing XD what's a joke just like you

Obviously you can't handle the concept of killing a laser rifle user.

You seem to misunderstand, it's not that any of us have trouble. The people asking for the nerf are the ones that have used them extensively.

You seem to misunderstand, it's not that any of us have trouble. The people asking for the nerf are the ones that have used them extensively.

i still wont give in to a nerf cause in the past we saw to many stupid requests from your corp. That simple.

Dark please save the world by becoming a mime. If lasers are op then give me back my old AR they were the exact same thing except mine had a smaller clip :)

Since when was 0 recoil on a relatively cheap gun that has no weakness fine? Laser rifles have a weakness, unlike how ARs used to be.

Dark please save the world by becoming a mime. If lasers are op then give me back my old AR they were the exact same thing except mine had a smaller clip :)

i still wont give in to a nerf cause in the past we saw to many stupid requests from your corp. That simple.

80k for a gun is NOT cheap no matter how you want to paint it. the ELM and standard LR are okay, but there nothing compared to the viziam and thats the one everyone thinks is OP.

[
The only time they seem to be too powerful is when they're on the ridiculously small maps where there's no room to do anything against them.

ARs need recoil how many times do I have to repeat it you idiot, the proto laser melts people simple as that. Counter is another laser. How was the tar countered with another tar so yeah lasers need a nerf or other weapons need their damage back and no this flat 10 year old girl that this game has become

Sooo... the laser doesn't turn into an arrow for snipers? And you can't easily sneak into close range?

To amend my request... The VIZIAM is OP and needs a nerf. The regular Laser Rifle and the ELM seem to be on par with others of its class.

You are such a terrible troll it's actually pretty sad, I will tell you, I (which means me) H-A-V-E N-O P-R-O-B-L-E-M K-I-L-L-I-N-G P-E-O-P-L-E(which means I am overpowered with whatever I use, which with this build is the proto Laser) did you understand that or should I use smaller words?

Now allow me to point this out for people who don't read their own post.

counter is actually a scoutsuit with a shotgun.

You are such a terrible troll it's actually pretty sad, I will tell you, I (which means me) H-A-V-E N-O P-R-O-B-L-E-M K-I-L-L-I-N-G P-E-O-P-L-E(which means I am overpowered with whatever I use, which with this build is the proto Laser) did you understand that or should I use smaller words?

This thread was never about you. If it is, you should submit yourself for a nerf, because clearly you are OP.

Yes, Zitro should be nerfed. He should move at only half speed, he should only use scrambler pistols at 1/2 clip, he should only hipfire, he shouldn't have access to vehicles, he should only use militia gear, he should have no way to resupply, and he shouldn't be able to speak on the forums to voice complaints.

AHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE.

Am I the only one who thinks this?

WTF probs can confirm that lasers are a non factor in corp matches as we saw last time. Its nice to keep the enemy at distance but taking objectives requires close quarter combat with AR's. Its not possible to win with a laser on its own. And most of my kills where with a AR in corp matches and some people claim that i use lasers non stop. Its a situational weapon like shotguns and sniper rifles. Only good in one role while a AR can still perform most tasks much better.

Wow dark said somthing I agree with they are not all that useful in corp battles.

Still a tad Op in ambush tho.

LOL at players bias against imperfects. The fact that the laser rifle is OP is unquestionable. The only thing I think that needs to be changed is the heat up over time when just firing (and not hitting a target) you can make the gun so powerful before you start shooting people and just swipe it around to get many insta kills. I see Cyn and Zitro do this constantly and laugh as they do it as well. Despite what you biased players might think Cyn and Zitro (as well as most of the imperfects) want this game to succeed and know when they see something that needs to be tweaked.

I dont know of ANY imperfect who stated there should be no change to the old ARs everyone I have talked to wanted the ARs to have recoil and that it was stupid that they did not. However the problem with the AR nerf was and still is the sight issue. Now people are realizing more and more that lasers are OP and of course people are starting to migrate more towards lasers. Are they weak at close range? Yes....does this one draw back mean they are not OP? No the tac rifle was considered OP by you even though one could argue that its drawback is that it has a small mag? Your other arguement of "find cover" can be said about any weapon. Is the old tac OP....no you should have just found cover so its your own fault that you died.

I do not understand how you can make these arguments that are so weak and yet you see them as valid arguments on why the laser is not OP. You can put any weapon that has been known to be OP during the course of this beta in the same argument you are making and it would hold just as much water. (LOLmissiles OP? No just find cover and weakness is travel time)

You guys end your arguments to Cyn and Zitro with a "git gud" argument and yet do these players have any issues killing people? No they dont they absolutely destroy in practically every game they are in. You claim their "stats" are left over from the OP days of the TAC and yet your stats arent left over from the "OP" days of the LOLmissiles which you were known to use before they got their overnerf?

So I guess the real question is are you guys arguing this because you truly cannot see the proof of the imbalance of the very weapon you use? (imperfects could see this with the lack of recoil on the AR) Or do you just despise the imperfects so much that no matter what is said you will be opposed to it?

How did a simple discussion about Laser Rifles all of a sudden become all-about Imperfects is beyond me. People stated their points for or against it and then let CCP decide depending on the sound arguments as well as their own playtest data. No need to go about and stroke one's epeen.

With all due respect to your corp, as I know for a fact that you guys can walk the talk and all, but all I got from your post is how butt-hurt you got from having the TAC AR nerfed. Ours is not decide what should be nerfed, that's CCP's. We merely state our own opinions for-or-against a certain mechanic of the game. So there is no need to "try" and understand anyone's arguments. Play the game and exploit whatever is that's there if CCP finds the need to ban it, they will.

Allright then Snipers are aswell OP on skirmish when they sit in the redline and no other weapon can reach them except other snipers and railgun tanks.

They need bullet drop and travel time to make sniping more difficult, hopefully it's still coming in.

What are you talking about laser rifles are not OP

Heavy suit with 800 points of shield and health together
Dies in 2 seconds what seems to be the problem