DUST Search - laser rifles are over powerful

Zarr Du'kar wrote:

semperfi1999 wrote:

LOL at players bias against imperfects. The fact that the laser rifle is OP is unquestionable. The only thing I think that needs to be changed is the heat up over time when just firing (and not hitting a target) you can make the gun so powerful before you start shooting people and just swipe it around to get many insta kills. I see Cyn and Zitro do this constantly and laugh as they do it as well. Despite what you biased players might think Cyn and Zitro (as well as most of the imperfects) want this game to succeed and know when they see something that needs to be tweaked.

I dont know of ANY imperfect who stated there should be no change to the old ARs everyone I have talked to wanted the ARs to have recoil and that it was stupid that they did not. However the problem with the AR nerf was and still is the sight issue. Now people are realizing more and more that lasers are OP and of course people are starting to migrate more towards lasers. Are they weak at close range? Yes....does this one draw back mean they are not OP? No the tac rifle was considered OP by you even though one could argue that its drawback is that it has a small mag? Your other arguement of "find cover" can be said about any weapon. Is the old tac OP....no you should have just found cover so its your own fault that you died.

I do not understand how you can make these arguments that are so weak and yet you see them as valid arguments on why the laser is not OP. You can put any weapon that has been known to be OP during the course of this beta in the same argument you are making and it would hold just as much water. (LOLmissiles OP? No just find cover and weakness is travel time)

You guys end your arguments to Cyn and Zitro with a "git gud" argument and yet do these players have any issues killing people? No they dont they absolutely destroy in practically every game they are in. You claim their "stats" are left over from the OP days of the TAC and yet your stats arent left over from the "OP" days of the LOLmissiles which you were known to use before they got their overnerf?

So I guess the real question is are you guys arguing this because you truly cannot see the proof of the imbalance of the very weapon you use? (imperfects could see this with the lack of recoil on the AR) Or do you just despise the imperfects so much that no matter what is said you will be opposed to it?

How did a simple discussion about Laser Rifles all of a sudden become all-about Imperfects is beyond me. People stated their points for or against it and then let CCP decide depending on the sound arguments as well as their own playtest data. No need to go about and stroke one's epeen.

With all due respect to your corp, as I know for a fact that you guys can walk the talk and all, but all I got from your post is how butt-hurt you got from having the TAC AR nerfed. Ours is not decide what should be nerfed, that's CCP's. We merely state our own opinions for-or-against a certain mechanic of the game. So there is no need to "try" and understand anyone's arguments. Play the game and exploit whatever is that's there if CCP finds the need to ban it, they will.


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semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.02 13:45:00 - [1] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: You are consistent I must admit. Is there anything you actually like as is or isn't over powered? I agree, lasers are tough. Getting killed by a single head shot from a good sniper is worse. Forged gunned in the middle of trashing most of their squad with my HMG is just miserable. I had only gotten five in a row and the Forge Gunner ruined my day. Must be OP. Unless it is when I am using my forge gun. Then everyone else legs are OP. In case you haven't used one a laser is actually not a perfect weapon. The gun has to be held on for awhile before the damage potential builds up to high levels. If the beam slips on and off the target the gun heats up so one must stop until it cools enough to use again. It will definitely broadcast your exact location to their laser gunners and their snipers. Not to mention the DS, HAV and Forge Gunners. It has good distance and you can see pretty well with it when scoped. But keeping it on the target is tough. Now if you get lucky you can finish off someone that has lost most of their armor and got too eager to let their Logi rep their armor or their shields recharge. And if they are focused on something else they only notice when they drop to the ground. That is true of any other weapon as well though. Frankly I see it more as a terror weapon. I can use it to disperse a crowd just by playing the beam through them. Inspirational to witness. Thranx your info on the laser rifle is off. The laser becomes more powerful as your fire it whether you are hitting a target or not. As a result you will see most "skilled" laser rifle users fire off to the side of their target and heat up there laser for a few moments then swing it across the enemy,.......this is almost an insta kill if you do this. I was on the other side watching Mr Zitro using his Viziam. He was melting fools with this weapon (never seemed to matter if they armor tanked or not they died in the same amount of time). Watching zitro was interesting but basically all he did was start shooting and then tried to target the enemy...as he continued shooting if he even knicked the guy their HP was demolished. Missing people with the laser is actually better for the laser user because when he does eventually run the laser over them they take serious dmg. If laser was changed such that it did additional dmg only when continuously hitting the target then lasers would likely not be overpowered.....or at least as bad as they are now.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 18:50:00 - [2] - Quote Tupni wrote: DON RODIE II wrote: I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op. Wait, isn't that non-disclosure agreement still in place? Admittedly I haven't seen it pop up lately, but... Also, Lasguns are great, but it's all about placement. A good player realizes that standing out in the open where the lasgun is most effective is stupid and you should feel bad. Otherwise the AR has the advantage overall, but it's nice to see something rival it. Rival it????? More like makes everyother gun in this game look pathetic in comparison. Watching corp members swing the proto laser around in an arc and drop 4 enemies instantly is hardly what I call a rival to the AR...your lucky to get 3 kills in a single AR clip but usually its about 1 - 2 kills per clip.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Your stacking alot of dmg mods to get your proto AR to hit at 50. I love the argument about lasers.....you have to use it before you can say its OP. Well I never used the LOLmissiles on tanks but I knew they were OP too. I dont have to use something to know its OP. When I get knicked by an adv laser and it does an instant 217 shield dmg and 30ish armor dmg something is off. When my corp members who are using lasers are just sitting there laughing at how rediculously easy they are to use and giggle at the stupid amounts of damage a heated up laser does I know something is not quite right with it. When I see adv heavy suits fall in mere moments from a laser and if I take on that same person I must use at least 1 nade if I am going to have a chance to kill him 1 on 1 with my AR in the open I know something is not quite right with the weapon. If it doesnt get nerfed then yea I will probably end up moving to the laser next build because I know its crazy powerful...however based on CCP track record I expect them to nerf the gun (probably overnerf TBH). The range is not the problem nor is the inverse relationship to the AR. The problem is the heating up making it do significantly more dmg.....literally to the point where a small brush over the enemy insta kills them whether they armor tank or shield tank.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:57:00 - [4] - Quote Tupni wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Tupni wrote: Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Where did you get those numbers from 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot (including this one) Nah, the Creodon Breach AR, deals 46 damage? Weaponry III adds about 3 more damage, so it's approximately 50. 400 rounds per minute, about 6.5 shots per second, that's about an ideal 325 damage per second (if you're a good shot, and if you're at proto you should be close I figure), most suits have around 300 total hp or more depending on who you're fighting, but that's only 3 seconds to take out a base heavy or an especially heavy light suit. And that rifle is fairly accurate too, not to mention the bonus AR skilling gives, with a good hip fire I think. Anyway, those are the numbers I came up with and how. When did they buff the breach??? Had anyone let protoman know this yet? If the proto breach really does 46 dmg standard now (i honestly havent looked) then I imagine protoman would have been all over the forums thanking the devs for getting his favorite gun back. 50 dmg per hit would be a small fry fitting for that gun you could easily get it to over 60 dmg per hit. I will look into this but I expect to find that this is not the case.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.07 14:53:00 - [5] - Quote LOL at players bias against imperfects. The fact that the laser rifle is OP is unquestionable. The only thing I think that needs to be changed is the heat up over time when just firing (and not hitting a target) you can make the gun so powerful before you start shooting people and just swipe it around to get many insta kills. I see Cyn and Zitro do this constantly and laugh as they do it as well. Despite what you biased players might think Cyn and Zitro (as well as most of the imperfects) want this game to succeed and know when they see something that needs to be tweaked. I dont know of ANY imperfect who stated there should be no change to the old ARs everyone I have talked to wanted the ARs to have recoil and that it was stupid that they did not. However the problem with the AR nerf was and still is the sight issue. Now people are realizing more and more that lasers are OP and of course people are starting to migrate more towards lasers. Are they weak at close range? Yes....does this one draw back mean they are not OP? No the tac rifle was considered OP by you even though one could argue that its drawback is that it has a small mag? Your other arguement of "find cover" can be said about any weapon. Is the old tac OP....no you should have just found cover so its your own fault that you died. I do not understand how you can make these arguments that are so weak and yet you see them as valid arguments on why the laser is not OP. You can put any weapon that has been known to be OP during the course of this beta in the same argument you are making and it would hold just as much water. (LOLmissiles OP? No just find cover and weakness is travel time) You guys end your arguments to Cyn and Zitro with a "git gud" argument and yet do these players have any issues killing people? No they dont they absolutely destroy in practically every game they are in. You claim their "stats" are left over from the OP days of the TAC and yet your stats arent left over from the "OP" days of the LOLmissiles which you were known to use before they got their overnerf? So I guess the real question is are you guys arguing this because you truly cannot see the proof of the imbalance of the very weapon you use? (imperfects could see this with the lack of recoil on the AR) Or do you just despise the imperfects so much that no matter what is said you will be opposed to it?
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.07 16:52:00 - [6] - Quote Zarr Du'kar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: LOL at players bias against imperfects. The fact that the laser rifle is OP is unquestionable. The only thing I think that needs to be changed is the heat up over time when just firing (and not hitting a target) you can make the gun so powerful before you start shooting people and just swipe it around to get many insta kills. I see Cyn and Zitro do this constantly and laugh as they do it as well. Despite what you biased players might think Cyn and Zitro (as well as most of the imperfects) want this game to succeed and know when they see something that needs to be tweaked. I dont know of ANY imperfect who stated there should be no change to the old ARs everyone I have talked to wanted the ARs to have recoil and that it was stupid that they did not. However the problem with the AR nerf was and still is the sight issue. Now people are realizing more and more that lasers are OP and of course people are starting to migrate more towards lasers. Are they weak at close range? Yes....does this one draw back mean they are not OP? No the tac rifle was considered OP by you even though one could argue that its drawback is that it has a small mag? Your other arguement of "find cover" can be said about any weapon. Is the old tac OP....no you should have just found cover so its your own fault that you died. I do not understand how you can make these arguments that are so weak and yet you see them as valid arguments on why the laser is not OP. You can put any weapon that has been known to be OP during the course of this beta in the same argument you are making and it would hold just as much water. (LOLmissiles OP? No just find cover and weakness is travel time) You guys end your arguments to Cyn and Zitro with a "git gud" argument and yet do these players have any issues killing people? No they dont they absolutely destroy in practically every game they are in. You claim their "stats" are left over from the OP days of the TAC and yet your stats arent left over from the "OP" days of the LOLmissiles which you were known to use before they got their overnerf? So I guess the real question is are you guys arguing this because you truly cannot see the proof of the imbalance of the very weapon you use? (imperfects could see this with the lack of recoil on the AR) Or do you just despise the imperfects so much that no matter what is said you will be opposed to it? How did a simple discussion about Laser Rifles all of a sudden become all-about Imperfects is beyond me. People stated their points for or against it and then let CCP decide depending on the sound arguments as well as their own playtest data. No need to go about and stroke one's epeen. With all due respect to your corp, as I know for a fact that you guys can walk the talk and all, but all I got from your post is how butt-hurt you got from having the TAC AR nerfed. Ours is not decide what should be nerfed, that's CCP's. We merely state our own opinions for-or-against a certain mechanic of the game. So there is no need to "try" and understand anyone's arguments. Play the game and exploit whatever is that's there if CCP finds the need to ban it, they will. Funny I didnt/dont use the TAC I was just noting the how rediculous the arguments that other people were making. How this ended up being about imperfects was the other people who brought this up not the imperfects. We just noted that we agreed with this and gave our reasoning for it. The Epeen came when the other guys started stuff and imperfects seem to never let anything rest if we are called out (not a bad thing). And as stated only issue with AR was the sight change!! And yes if next build doesnt have a change for the laser rifle I will be using that as my primary as if CCP is going to keep OP weapons in the game when I will use that to my advantage.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.07 20:36:00 - [7] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Allright then Snipers are aswell OP on skirmish when they sit in the redline and no other weapon can reach them except other snipers and railgun tanks. They need bullet drop and travel time to make sniping more difficult, hopefully it's still coming in. I would be happy with just travel time. That would get rid of 90% of the useless snipers since they cant aim for anything.