DUST Search - laser rifles are over powerful

Marston EV wrote:

i use the proto laser with a proto suit. Ive been using the laser rifle since they were released. The viziam laser rifle has a 100 round clip and a default damage of 20 per round. 22 damage per shot if weaponry is lvl 5. One CDM(complex damage modifier) brings it up to about 24 damage per shot. I use two differn't suits right now. One has one CDM while the other has four. Both of them melt people but there is a huge difference between the first and second fitting in terms of dps. People tell me the stacking penalty doesn't work, and if so, that means my gun currently does around 30 damage per shot. That is HUGE for the laser rifle.

Each second the rifle heats up while firing, the damage it deals stacks on 20 (for my viziam) or 30 (for my particular suit). 1 sec = 30 DPS (damage per shot).
2 sec = 60 DPS. 3 sec = 90 DPS..... i dont know an exact RoF but lets say my viziam shoots 15 rounds in one second.
15 x 30 = 450//// that kills most standard suits right there (one second). 15 X 60 = 900 damage////// that kills everything short of an advanced heavy suit. 15 X 90........ can kill a militia LAV or Dropship.

the consequences for using that suit is that i only just have over 400 hp and as a result im kind of squishy. but the whole point is to drop people faster then they can drop me. Is it OP that i can almost use the LR as an AR now? maybe ;) but is the laser rifle OP in general?? i dont think so. The ELM and Standard LR are easy to avoid unless your cought in an open field for some reason. The viziam is a bit tougher for me because of how it can usually melt me as fast as i can melt the shooter, so it doesn't mix well because i try to stand my ground only to realize the guy may be able to outgun me.

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Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 45	Posted - 2013.01.02 19:58:00 - [31] - Quote People tend to forget that 'closing the range' is a pathetic notion. The problem is that you can't close the range fast enough because the gun kills in no time at all and has a very long range. Come up with a better tactic to back up your argument.
Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 651	Posted - 2013.01.02 21:32:00 - [32] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: People tend to forget that 'closing the range' is a pathetic notion. The problem is that you can't close the range fast enough because the gun kills in no time at all and has a very long range. Come up with a better tactic to back up your argument. I've been using LRs lately and they are very efficient/quick killers. I actually like it when the person can close the distance, unfortunately the red dots dont understand the notion of using cover to get close. But I didnt spec out skills into SMG/Scrambler for nothing. Scrambler up close works better than a LR from distance imo.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.01.02 21:34:00 - [33] - Quote The only thing the Laser Rifle really needs is an adjustment to cause increased damage based on how long you keep the beam on the target, not based on heat level, which makes no sense. You shouldn't be able to "cook" the beam and use the broken stacking penalty to make it into a OHK weapon. It should require the skill to keep the beam precisely on your target over a period of time in order to get kills.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.02 21:41:00 - [34] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Thranx your info on the laser rifle is off. The laser becomes more powerful as your fire it whether you are hitting a target or not. As a result you will see most "skilled" laser rifle users fire off to the side of their target and heat up there laser for a few moments then swing it across the enemy,.......this is almost an insta kill if you do this. I was on the other side watching Mr Zitro using his Viziam. He was melting fools with this weapon (never seemed to matter if they armor tanked or not they died in the same amount of time). Watching zitro was interesting but basically all he did was start shooting and then tried to target the enemy...as he continued shooting if he even knicked the guy their HP was demolished. Missing people with the laser is actually better for the laser user because when he does eventually run the laser over them they take serious dmg. If laser was changed such that it did additional dmg only when continuously hitting the target then lasers would likely not be overpowered.....or at least as bad as they are now. Yeah, I know that. Sorry if I didn't make that clear that I did. My problem is with lower powered versions and my mediocre aiming. I need to keep the gun on them to do the all of the damage. When I spec up a skill level or two then it will be fine as I can burn them down quickly enough before overheating. And when I use it more and get the muscle memory to use it correctly will help as well. :-/ Getting Weapons to lvl 5 was more important.
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars 91	Posted - 2013.01.02 21:55:00 - [35] - Quote The lazer is a specialized weapon that needs distance to accrue decent damage and without light weapon sharpshooter leveled, you cannot shoot very far either. With light weapon sharpshooter completely leveled, the lazer can be devastating given the right circumstances. The distance needed for lazers makes lazers more specific to defending as you cannot remain at distance while capturing an objective. Also, firing a lazer gives your exact position as it's an exact beam to your position. I have been pounced on by entire squads due to this lately. Lastly, if you overheat a lazer, you can injure and even kill yourself. Therefore, if against a lazer player, try to keep them firing (without getting hit of course). Due to all of these factors, I like the lazer as-is due to evening out with the pros and cons. I do believe one thing that should change is if you use weapon modifiers or such that makes the lazer more powerful, the lazer should adjust to overheat faster and cause greater damage to self when fully overheated. Of course, I think this should be true for all weapons across the board where the overheat time is adjusted due to weapon mods and other damage affecting factors.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2013.01.03 18:11:00 - [36] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Arent lazers good against shields? Isn't everyone shield tanking? Maybe those two are related? >_> No, because you can still melt heavys just as fast if you know what you're doing.Hence why i've switched to a LR. If everyone else is using it may as well use that and an MD.
Tupni Bragian Order Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.03 18:47:00 - [37] - Quote DON RODIE II wrote: I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op. Wait, isn't that non-disclosure agreement still in place? Admittedly I haven't seen it pop up lately, but... Also, Lasguns are great, but it's all about placement. A good player realizes that standing out in the open where the lasgun is most effective is stupid and you should feel bad. Otherwise the AR has the advantage overall, but it's nice to see something rival it.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 18:50:00 - [38] - Quote Tupni wrote: DON RODIE II wrote: I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op. Wait, isn't that non-disclosure agreement still in place? Admittedly I haven't seen it pop up lately, but... Also, Lasguns are great, but it's all about placement. A good player realizes that standing out in the open where the lasgun is most effective is stupid and you should feel bad. Otherwise the AR has the advantage overall, but it's nice to see something rival it. Rival it????? More like makes everyother gun in this game look pathetic in comparison. Watching corp members swing the proto laser around in an arc and drop 4 enemies instantly is hardly what I call a rival to the AR...your lucky to get 3 kills in a single AR clip but usually its about 1 - 2 kills per clip.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 411	Posted - 2013.01.03 18:58:00 - [39] - Quote Shouper of BHD wrote: they are fine, but I have noticed advanced LR units are in danger of a heavy with a blindside HMG if they stand as far away as possible while still in range.... how does the HGM shoot that accuretly that far? that I might not know, but it has been a glitchy morning for me. HMGs can actually -hit- from relatively long distances at the higher tiers. The problem is that the HMG has so much deviation between shots that engaging at longer ranges doesn't usually work out unless the other guy isn't expecting you.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:14:00 - [40] - Quote I'm was well know for the TAR, consider to be op but in my opinion it took more skill than the laser. With the laser all you have to do is make camp far away from the center of the map and shot from distance so hard. But Zitro cqc is a hard counter, in the mind of retards. With the way smgs and the "thukker" like gernades that's no problem at all

Tupni Bragian Order Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:16:00 - [41] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Tupni wrote: DON RODIE II wrote: I saw this guy on YouTube get 30 kills with a laser rifle camping in the same spot. Lol Kool but they op. Wait, isn't that non-disclosure agreement still in place? Admittedly I haven't seen it pop up lately, but... Also, Lasguns are great, but it's all about placement. A good player realizes that standing out in the open where the lasgun is most effective is stupid and you should feel bad. Otherwise the AR has the advantage overall, but it's nice to see something rival it. Rival it????? More like makes everyother gun in this game look pathetic in comparison. Watching corp members swing the proto laser around in an arc and drop 4 enemies instantly is hardly what I call a rival to the AR...your lucky to get 3 kills in a single AR clip but usually its about 1 - 2 kills per clip. Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Also, about making every other gun in the game look bad, isn't that what the AR did for all this time? Also, proto- power-fighting random matches does not equate to statistical truth. And with the holidays it seems like a lot of lower skilled/suited people are showing up. Unless you mean corp-on-corp matches, but then the Imperfects are pretty far up there last I checked... At any rate, have you tried using it yourself? It plays differently than an AR, turns a lot slower, next to worthless up close, burns through a lot of ammo, it doesn't overheat as much and/or as long as it should I think, but it's also the only light class weapon to have that issue which is a considerable drawback seeing as at peak damage it's at its functional limitation. But it is actually a good, versatile, accessable weapon, a pretty uncommon trait so far broadly only shared by the AR. I don't think it's better, but maybe you're just not used to it yet. Or I could be wrong, I dunno, I haven't gotten the proto lasgun yet. But seriously, try it yourself before you knock it.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:19:00 - [42] - Quote Tupni wrote: Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Where did you get those numbers from
Tbone322 D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:23:00 - [43] - Quote I haven't used the viziam yet but the Elm feels fine to me. I dont have any damage mods on it, so I can't comment on that. I rarely melt people in 1 second, it usually takes at least 2-3 unless I keep the beam on the head. Admittedly I ran into a skilled viziam user yesterday, and holy crap there wasn't anything I could do. To be fair the viziam also costs like 80k if I'm not mistaken so there is a definite cost to use it.
DEADPOOL5241 Doomheim 212	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:24:00 - [44] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Tupni wrote: Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Where did you get those numbers from 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot (including this one)
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:36:00 - [45] - Quote Your stacking alot of dmg mods to get your proto AR to hit at 50. I love the argument about lasers.....you have to use it before you can say its OP. Well I never used the LOLmissiles on tanks but I knew they were OP too. I dont have to use something to know its OP. When I get knicked by an adv laser and it does an instant 217 shield dmg and 30ish armor dmg something is off. When my corp members who are using lasers are just sitting there laughing at how rediculously easy they are to use and giggle at the stupid amounts of damage a heated up laser does I know something is not quite right with it. When I see adv heavy suits fall in mere moments from a laser and if I take on that same person I must use at least 1 nade if I am going to have a chance to kill him 1 on 1 with my AR in the open I know something is not quite right with the weapon. If it doesnt get nerfed then yea I will probably end up moving to the laser next build because I know its crazy powerful...however based on CCP track record I expect them to nerf the gun (probably overnerf TBH). The range is not the problem nor is the inverse relationship to the AR. The problem is the heating up making it do significantly more dmg.....literally to the point where a small brush over the enemy insta kills them whether they armor tank or shield tank.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:36:00 - [46] - Quote This thread sucks. Threads (especially thread titles) like these lead to crap game design. The problem, as several people have repeatedly pointed out, is not the damage numbers. It's mostly the fact that you can cook the beam before you swipe. You are actually penalized for using the weapon properly because cooking ON target makes them move before the beam is cooked. The problem is that CCP will not fix this problem, they will nerf numbers. Nerfing numbers is easy. Coding the proper behaviour is hard. After they nerf numbers the forum scrubs wont cry about it anymore and the weapon will never be fixed. GG CCP and forum scrubs.
Tupni Bragian Order Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:49:00 - [47] - Quote DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Tupni wrote: Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Where did you get those numbers from 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot (including this one) Nah, the Creodon Breach AR, deals 46 damage? Weaponry III adds about 3 more damage, so it's approximately 50. 400 rounds per minute, about 6.5 shots per second, that's about an ideal 325 damage per second (if you're a good shot, and if you're at proto you should be close I figure), most suits have around 300 total hp or more depending on who you're fighting, but that's only 3 seconds to take out a base heavy or an especially heavy light suit. And that rifle is fairly accurate too, not to mention the bonus AR skilling gives, with a good hip fire I think. Anyway, those are the numbers I came up with and how.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:57:00 - [48] - Quote Tupni wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Tupni wrote: Do you use a proto-AR? Including a mild weaponry modifier, they can deal approximately a no non-sense 50 damage per hit with a fire rate in the hundreds, nothing near the trail pattern to trace, and by that point your dispersal pattern is nothing. You can pop suits all day in 1-3 seconds. Where did you get those numbers from 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot (including this one) Nah, the Creodon Breach AR, deals 46 damage? Weaponry III adds about 3 more damage, so it's approximately 50. 400 rounds per minute, about 6.5 shots per second, that's about an ideal 325 damage per second (if you're a good shot, and if you're at proto you should be close I figure), most suits have around 300 total hp or more depending on who you're fighting, but that's only 3 seconds to take out a base heavy or an especially heavy light suit. And that rifle is fairly accurate too, not to mention the bonus AR skilling gives, with a good hip fire I think. Anyway, those are the numbers I came up with and how. When did they buff the breach??? Had anyone let protoman know this yet? If the proto breach really does 46 dmg standard now (i honestly havent looked) then I imagine protoman would have been all over the forums thanking the devs for getting his favorite gun back. 50 dmg per hit would be a small fry fitting for that gun you could easily get it to over 60 dmg per hit. I will look into this but I expect to find that this is not the case.
Tupni Bragian Order Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.03 20:03:00 - [49] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This thread sucks. Threads (especially thread titles) like these lead to crap game design. The problem, as several people have repeatedly pointed out, is not the damage numbers. It's mostly the fact that you can cook the beam before you swipe. You are actually penalized for using the weapon properly because cooking ON target makes them move before the beam is cooked. The problem is that CCP will not fix this problem, they will nerf numbers. Nerfing numbers is easy. Coding the proper behaviour is hard. After they nerf numbers the forum scrubs wont cry about it anymore and the weapon will never be fixed. GG CCP and forum scrubs. And here I thought that it only stacked when making contact, by cooking the enemy... Still, it does make a noticable, bright, continuous, beam. I'm holding out for increased heat numbers, a decreased skill-based reduction, and a more mild build off of a more substantial starting point (a lower, slower range of growth making it initially more powerful, but ultimately less, making that tactic less dire). I like it, but it does sound like it has a certain edge at the proto-level.
DON RODIE II Deep Space Republic 168	Posted - 2013.01.05 00:02:00 - [50] - Quote I hate those freakn lasers. Every time I get killed by a laser I want to turn my game off

Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 45	Posted - 2013.01.05 00:05:00 - [51] - Quote I think the main problem is that they take off armour too fast. I'm all down for them being affective against shield.
Marston EV Doomheim 75	Posted - 2013.01.05 01:46:00 - [52] - Quote i use the proto laser with a proto suit. Ive been using the laser rifle since they were released. The viziam laser rifle has a 100 round clip and a default damage of 20 per round. 22 damage per shot if weaponry is lvl 5. One CDM(complex damage modifier) brings it up to about 24 damage per shot. I use two differn't suits right now. One has one CDM while the other has four. Both of them melt people but there is a huge difference between the first and second fitting in terms of dps. People tell me the stacking penalty doesn't work, and if so, that means my gun currently does around 30 damage per shot. That is HUGE for the laser rifle. Each second the rifle heats up while firing, the damage it deals stacks on 20 (for my viziam) or 30 (for my particular suit). 1 sec = 30 DPS (damage per shot). 2 sec = 60 DPS. 3 sec = 90 DPS..... i dont know an exact RoF but lets say my viziam shoots 15 rounds in one second. 15 x 30 = 450//// that kills most standard suits right there (one second). 15 X 60 = 900 damage////// that kills everything short of an advanced heavy suit. 15 X 90........ can kill a militia LAV or Dropship. the consequences for using that suit is that i only just have over 400 hp and as a result im kind of squishy. but the whole point is to drop people faster then they can drop me. Is it OP that i can almost use the LR as an AR now? maybe ;) but is the laser rifle OP in general?? i dont think so. The ELM and Standard LR are easy to avoid unless your cought in an open field for some reason. The viziam is a bit tougher for me because of how it can usually melt me as fast as i can melt the shooter, so it doesn't mix well because i try to stand my ground only to realize the guy may be able to outgun me.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2013.01.05 01:58:00 - [53] - Quote Marston EV wrote: i use the proto laser with a proto suit. Ive been using the laser rifle since they were released. The viziam laser rifle has a 100 round clip and a default damage of 20 per round. 22 damage per shot if weaponry is lvl 5. One CDM(complex damage modifier) brings it up to about 24 damage per shot. I use two differn't suits right now. One has one CDM while the other has four. Both of them melt people but there is a huge difference between the first and second fitting in terms of dps. People tell me the stacking penalty doesn't work, and if so, that means my gun currently does around 30 damage per shot. That is HUGE for the laser rifle. Each second the rifle heats up while firing, the damage it deals stacks on 20 (for my viziam) or 30 (for my particular suit). 1 sec = 30 DPS (damage per shot). 2 sec = 60 DPS. 3 sec = 90 DPS..... i dont know an exact RoF but lets say my viziam shoots 15 rounds in one second. 15 x 30 = 450//// that kills most standard suits right there (one second). 15 X 60 = 900 damage////// that kills everything short of an advanced heavy suit. 15 X 90........ can kill a militia LAV or Dropship. the consequences for using that suit is that i only just have over 400 hp and as a result im kind of squishy. but the whole point is to drop people faster then they can drop me. Is it OP that i can almost use the LR as an AR now? maybe ;) but is the laser rifle OP in general?? i dont think so. The ELM and Standard LR are easy to avoid unless your cought in an open field for some reason. The viziam is a bit tougher for me because of how it can usually melt me as fast as i can melt the shooter, so it doesn't mix well because i try to stand my ground only to realize the guy may be able to outgun me. Lasers now confirmed for being powered by a Sun.
Washlee UnReaL. 131	Posted - 2013.01.05 02:06:00 - [54] - Quote What seem to be the problem with the Laser Rifle I have a heavy suit with 900 Points of Armor and Shields all together Laser rifle kills me in about 1.9 seconds I see nothing overpowered here.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 391	Posted - 2013.01.05 02:44:00 - [55] - Quote Marston EV wrote: some great things about damage mods. once they fix the stacking penalties for damage mods much of the talk of nerfing weapons is going to die down a bit. I hope this is a priority for ccp so we can test how these weapons will behave in the real game.
Frank Devine ZionTCD Legacy Rising 107	Posted - 2013.01.05 02:50:00 - [56] - Quote I love my Laser rifle but damn when I get killed it sucks considering that each load out is costing me about 150, 000 isk. I will continue using the Laser Rifle depending on which board on the game type.
Zarr Du'kar Doomheim 6	Posted - 2013.01.05 11:48:00 - [57] - Quote Every death to an LR user maybe situational. Some might have had the best optimum range getting 120% effectiveness and extreme cases of getting headshots which boosts it to 180% (You can figure out the range in-game). If you're unlucky you get both with a pre-heated LR. I use a STD LR with Complex damage mod and yes, at my optimum range I can take out MLT to STD in around 2 secs. Main reason for this is because (by reading the weapons description) the LR gets a bonus against shields and most suits (save for the heavy) are shield tankers. Simply put, it is a specialized weapon and by taking out shields faster just means it is working properly. For advance suits up and heavys, I have never taken them out in less than 2 secs from a cooled-down LR. Another thing, at optimum range the target is so small that any sprint or bunny-hop would instantly make you miss. The LRs seem OP because it can kill effectively outside the optimum range of an AR/Shotgun/HMG. Once we get in those weapons optimum range we die easily. For comparison, an AR has an effective range from 0-40m an LR at that range gets effectiveness from a range of 15-50%. Optimum range of AR vs LR in same range = AR wins. Optimum range of LR vs AR = LR wins. Wrap your minds around the idea that an LR is not an AR and then maybe you'd understand the logic behind the inverse effectiveness of the LR.
Sysic Kaenn Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.01.06 01:02:00 - [58] - Quote Well, last night I finished match and snapped this picture. Check out the top 3 on the opposite team. Yeap, you guessed it... all 3 used lasers. Yikes, half image of scores removed and postimage contacted! Converting to text :) the portion of the picture showed K/D ratio for the 3 people 20/0 16/1 15/1 All three used lasers during the match.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.01.06 01:32:00 - [59] - Quote Sysic Kaenn wrote: Well, last night I finished match and snapped this picture. Check out the top 3 on the opposite team. Yeap, you guessed it... all 3 used lasers. Laser K/D Ratio http://s9.postimage.org/6mo6jwcof/lasers.png You can't post pictures of DUST ... it's in breach of NDA ... I suggest you take it down before someone reports it or CCP sees it.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.06 01:46:00 - [60] - Quote TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote: Lasers do more damage on shields than armor. If you have a skinny armor with a big fat shields, that won't help you. They also heat up, the longer you hold the trigger. By the time it gets to your armor....it is probably more effective on your armor than the shields. Lasers are extremely annoying....you really have to run behind cover if someone is shooting at you. You won't last 2 secs if you try to shoot back. It's ridiculous sometimes because all you have to do is stay away from the fight and keep your distance. I don't know what is the answer except get your own laser when half the enemy is using them.



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