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My take on the missile nerf

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EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 17:34:00 - [1] - Quote I use a Sagaris because armor is broke and essentially bonus to missiles aswell with proto turrets Now the small proto turret i use used to have 250 splash at 2.5m radius, it now does less than 100 at a 2m radius and will take 4-5 shots to maybe kill a standard assault fella from splash damage, the direct hit damage hasnt changed one bit so 1 hit will kill but when hes jumping etc its hard to do that The large turret is about they same 250+ in a 5m area and now its less than 100 in a 3m area, up close they still do the same direct damage and in CQC because it fires 4 missiles you do tend to get the person anyways but only in CQC area because long range out of the question My large turret seems like it has random bullet spread, all 4missiles seem to fire all over the place My small and large missile also seen to have the same range cap, that range cap in general is quite small tbh and from certain places where i could fire from and hit a certain point or area i can no longer do so - this gives a big advantage to forge gunners and swarm users not to mention swarm missiles can go further than than the large missile turret The missile turrets have become Anti vehicle and installation only, but the railgun does this job alot better due to higher DPS and near instant travel time So out of the 3 turrets the blaster has been left untouched for now but essentially the HAV is weaker because of the nerfs to the HAV and has given the advantage to AV users in a big way Railgun - Long range, high DPS, slow turret, overheats after 2 shots, long cooldown after overheating, anti vehicle/installation and only anti infantry with direct hit Missiles - Short-medium range (i use medium range as a loose term), high DPS, has travel time, next to no splash for an AOE weapon, anti vehicle/installation only anti infantry with large turret Blaster - Short range, high ROF, low damage, overheats and cooldown takes a while, Anti infantry mostly but can kill a tank at short range But look at AV which remains unchanged Forge gun - Long range, high DPS, charge up time, is anti everything atm Swarms - Long range, dumb fired, lock on through cover, missiles bend around cover to hit targets, only anti vehicle/installation All the problems of AV still exist while the problems of HAVs are being replaced with more problems Today i faced Dark Cloud in his new Gunlogi fitted with Blaster as main turret, he does well in it kills infantry and i was in my Sagaris with a railgun, now i had range and that was that but in general a forge gunner could have been where i was and Dark Cloud did just that with his forge gun and the small missiles turrets couldnt reach him, blaster would be no good and i have to be spot on with railgun So now we will see shield tanks with blasters and shield tanks with railguns to take on the tanks with blasters and for the small turret slots i have no idea what i will use tbh, armor tanks will not be used still most likely AV wise ther will be no change, forge guns and swarms are both long range and can fire from the otherside of the map and the only way HAV have defense is the driver in the large railgun turret, missiles will not reach and blasters lolno Essentially it is even easier to keep a HAV away, all small turrets are meh tbh missile and railgun have range caps but big direct hit and next to no splash damage and the blaster is like having an AR, large turrets have a bit more of an option but even then its situational Overall HAV are filling a very unique role and tbh may not even see them about soon enough as the SP and ISK required now to get into one is not worth
GLOO GLOO Algintal Core Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2012.11.21 17:44:00 - [2] - Quote Sorry Snake, but the first think I do reading you is smiling... Well, now AV are a little bit too OP compare to vehicules (maybe), but you can admit that "push the button to make a/some kill" was really disgusting... Now, a vehicule need a good infantry group to stay alive. It can't rush everything alone, It's not the GOD mode anymore... Now, you really need a good logi (infantry or LAV or another tank .... well TEAMPLAY !!!) Now, DS are not GS anymore, but swarm seems to be really OP now without any flairs... Well smile smile smile !!!
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 17:55:00 - [3] - Quote You say now you need teamwork when you needed teamwork with a tank before the latest hotfix Forge gunners pissed me off no end sniping from a hill or a safe place and mighty 'OP' missile turrets still wouldnt hit unless once of us got a jammy direct hit Now the missiles have spread (espc the large) so i wont get a direct hit at distance only in CQC which most forge gunners dont do (until today) and small is the same but if they are out of missile range nothing we have will hit them except the large railgun Missiles may have been 'I win' button but that was mainly because of circumstance that armor HAVs were pointless to use and shields were better due to mods and happen to have bonus to missiles in the top tank, missiles have always been an AOE weapon with splash damage since its like firing RPGs at someone Now the tank is weak with a weak turret, they are completely situational now and its not like we can drive up to the supply depot and change out the turrets we use AV have the advantage now and espc swarms/forge gunners when out of 3 turrets 1 only has the range to hit them TBH its more unbalanced now than it was before the hotfix
BMSTUBBYx Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:02:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah because HAV drivers going 56-0 was balanced.
Tzaar Bomba Doomheim 174	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:02:00 - [5] - Quote All the tank ***** brought it on yourselves. No more easy kills, work for it just like the infantry. Tanks are supposed to be support anyway thats why modern day militaries send them in with infantry. M1 abrams, T-90 and the challenger always have infantry support. As for the swarms and forge guns yes they may be O.P now but not by much, tanks shouldnt take 500 hits to destroy maybe 4 or 5 maybe 6 if proto. But for the sake of balance and fair gameplay tanks should not be jesus riding on a white horse carrying a rocket launcher on his shoulder.
GLOO GLOO Algintal Core Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:08:00 - [6] - Quote Maybe you have to think how to fit your tank ... It's not just a 2-years-old boy that can do it ... (meaning full missile turrets fitting...) And is it so hard to aim a Heavy-Forge with a large railgun and good skills ? Oops, sorry, didn't remember that pilots didn't know anything about aiming... I'll maybe keep trolling when all of you guys will still saying thoose crapy words !!!
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:14:00 - [7] - Quote lol 56-0 Against randoms half the time who use milita and basic AV to try and destroy a tank with no teamwork what do you expect against idiots? Even then forge guns do the AV work damn well with so little SP put into it and also swarms which lock on through cover and missiles which bend around cover to hit the tank - if you cant even bother to skill up to begin with you deserve to lose because the AV is well in your hands now Brought it on ourselfs? Hm lets see, community cried about railguns they are now slow and only good for one thing tbh, also cried about tanks so all the resistances got nerfed and AV got buffed which still need to be fixed ie swarms because it has OP elements to it The community is getting closer to being able to kill a tank with an AR
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:17:00 - [8] - Quote GLOO GLOO wrote: Maybe you have to think how to fit your tank ... It's not just a 2-years-old boy that can do it ... (meaning full missile turrets fitting...) And is it so hard to aim a Heavy-Forge with a large railgun and good skills ? Oops, sorry, didn't remember that pilots didn't know anything about aiming... I'll maybe keep trolling when all of you guys will still saying thoose crapy words !!! Aiming? what with a forge lolno its now charge at otherside of map and fire, missiles dont have the range to hit you, blaster defo wont hit, railgun needs a direct hit while im driving and activating mods Yes sure is hard aiming when your a HAV driver
GLOO GLOO Algintal Core Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:20:00 - [9] - Quote Cavity was OP --> fixed Remote eplosive was OP --> fixed Creodron was OP --> fixed Snipers were useless --> fixed AV nades as proximity --> fixed And you didn't need a tank to make a 56-0, just a Saga was enough, with a good pilot and a good gunner ... Well, maybe it's a too big nerf, but I can't say I don't play easy mode !!! But it's a fair nerf today for FPS players, and vehicules lonewolf fanboys can QQ for me !!!
Tzaar Bomba Doomheim 174	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:24:00 - [10] - Quote Lets think about turrets then shall we? Railguns- single fire one blast, it has to charge, minimal splash with lower splash damage. Much like a modern day MBT firing standard A.P shells. Accurate, but if it lands next to its target not alot of damage. I think Railguns are perfect where they are. Blasters- quick firing, overheat, small damage, moderate accuracy. Its basically a faster auto cannon without the explosive capability. Great for mowing down hordes of infantry not so much a tank. Again perfect where it is. Missles- moderate across the board. Except now instead of ---pew pew boom you get < / < ~ \| - - / \_ \| / maybe a kill but thanks to the blast radius you can damage multiple targets. So NOW yes missle turrets are perfect. They go on tanks, yes they are supposed to be powerful, but not supposed to decimate everything, thats what eve pilots are for. Im sure youll master them eventually.

BMSTUBBYx Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:25:00 - [11] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: lol 56-0 Against randoms half the time who use milita and basic AV to try and destroy a tank with no teamwork what do you expect against idiots? My point exactly! You Derpa Derpas brought out your pimped out Derpa Derpa HAV's and DS's and Derpa Derpaed rolled randoms and went 56-0 too many times. CCP took notice and now nerfed your Derpa Derpa Weapons. So now you can keep Derpa Derpa crying about it or move on. Lesson learned.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:29:00 - [12] - Quote BMSTUBBYx wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: lol 56-0 Against randoms half the time who use milita and basic AV to try and destroy a tank with no teamwork what do you expect against idiots? My point exactly! You Derpa Derpas brought out your pimped out Derpa Derpa HAV's and DS's and Derpa Derpaed rolled randoms and went 56-0 too many times. CCP took notice and now nerfed your Derpa Derpa Weapons. So now you can keep Derpa Derpa crying about it or move on. Lesson learned. Oh so you want to be able to take out a fully fitted proper tank on your own with no teamwork? Well CCP is catering to you atm, keep it up you might be able to kill a tank with an AR before xmas
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:30:00 - [13] - Quote GLOO GLOO wrote: Cavity was OP --> fixed Remote eplosive was OP --> fixed Creodron was OP --> fixed Snipers were useless --> fixed AV nades as proximity --> fixed And you didn't need a tank to make a 56-0, just a Saga was enough, with a good pilot and a good gunner ... Well, maybe it's a too big nerf, but I can't say I don't play easy mode !!! But it's a fair nerf today for FPS players, and vehicules lonewolf fanboys can QQ for me !!! A Saga? Really if it was so easy why didnt you do it? oh yea right it would have insta popped
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:34:00 - [14] - Quote Tzaar Bomba wrote: Lets think about turrets then shall we? Railguns- single fire one blast, it has to charge, minimal splash with lower splash damage. Much like a modern day MBT firing standard A.P shells. Accurate, but if it lands next to its target not alot of damage. I think Railguns are perfect where they are. Blasters- quick firing, overheat, small damage, moderate accuracy. Its basically a faster auto cannon without the explosive capability. Great for mowing down hordes of infantry not so much a tank. Again perfect where it is. Missles- moderate across the board. Except now instead of ---pew pew boom you get < / < ~ \| - - / \_ \| / maybe a kill but thanks to the blast radius you can damage multiple targets. So NOW yes missle turrets are perfect. They go on tanks, yes they are supposed to be powerful, but not supposed to decimate everything, thats what eve pilots are for. Im sure youll master them eventually. Yea but they didnt even add reloding to it, instead it was hit the splash so hard that they will need a direct hit, i mean even nades do more splash damage in a large radius than a missile does now, if i wanted a direct hit use a blaster tbh, missiles were an AOE weapon abiet a strong one but also armor tanks got no love and swarms had bonus to armor damage so missiles and shield tanks were used because of circumstance Railguns arent perfect yet, the turret itself moves too slow and it has travel time to an extent when it really shouldnt
BMSTUBBYx Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:37:00 - [15] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: BMSTUBBYx wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: lol 56-0 Against randoms half the time who use milita and basic AV to try and destroy a tank with no teamwork what do you expect against idiots? My point exactly! You Derpa Derpas brought out your pimped out Derpa Derpa HAV's and DS's and Derpa Derpaed rolled randoms and went 56-0 too many times. CCP took notice and now nerfed your Derpa Derpa Weapons. So now you can keep Derpa Derpa crying about it or move on. Lesson learned. Oh so you want to be able to take out a fully fitted proper tank on your own with no teamwork? Well CCP is catering to you atm, keep it up you might be able to kill a tank with an AR before xmas Nope not at all! I do not run AV equipment, I let my AV teammates take out the Derpa Derpa DS's and HAV's while I Ninja Scout my way around the map capping the objectives and setting up my OP remote explosives lol.
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 152	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:37:00 - [16] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: GLOO GLOO wrote: Cavity was OP --> fixed Remote eplosive was OP --> fixed Creodron was OP --> fixed Snipers were useless --> fixed AV nades as proximity --> fixed And you didn't need a tank to make a 56-0, just a Saga was enough, with a good pilot and a good gunner ... Well, maybe it's a too big nerf, but I can't say I don't play easy mode !!! But it's a fair nerf today for FPS players, and vehicules lonewolf fanboys can QQ for me !!! A Saga? Really if it was so easy why didnt you do it? oh yea right it would have insta popped Really English? you're making yourself look like a fool....
Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming 67	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:41:00 - [17] - Quote Perhaps the simplest (and maybe best) solution, would have been to reduce the ROF of missiles. Perhaps by as much as half.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:42:00 - [18] - Quote Fargen Icehole wrote: Perhaps the simplest (and maybe best) solution, would have been to reduce the ROF of missiles. Perhaps by as much as half. If you put it on par with railguns or close then yea it prob would have worked to an extent
Tzaar Bomba Doomheim 174	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:43:00 - [19] - Quote They also needed the splash damage reduction, even nukes have power limitations.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:46:00 - [20] - Quote Tzaar Bomba wrote: They also needed the splash damage reduction, even nukes have power limitations. Its an AOE weapon its ment to have splash damage and a fairly large damage radius tbh Its like firing an RPG its going to **** up anyone caught in the blast radius Even locus grenades do 400 damage in a 6m radius according to marketplace stats

BMSTUBBYx Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:48:00 - [21] - Quote Limit ammo, force the Derpa Derpas to have to reload.
GLOO GLOO Algintal Core Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:53:00 - [22] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: GLOO GLOO wrote: Cavity was OP --> fixed Remote eplosive was OP --> fixed Creodron was OP --> fixed Snipers were useless --> fixed AV nades as proximity --> fixed And you didn't need a tank to make a 56-0, just a Saga was enough, with a good pilot and a good gunner ... Well, maybe it's a too big nerf, but I can't say I don't play easy mode !!! But it's a fair nerf today for FPS players, and vehicules lonewolf fanboys can QQ for me !!! A Saga? Really if it was so easy why didnt you do it? oh yea right it would have insta popped I told you, I don't usually play easy mode ... Easy doesn't mean fun to me ... We did it some times when we prepared the tourny, as I skilled into DS for nothing (the kitten server disconnect, and no DS at the beginning = FAIL without fighting) So you're not the 1st one to "lose" SP in this build ...
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:54:00 - [23] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: GLOO GLOO wrote: And you didn't need a tank to make a 56-0, just a Saga was enough, with a good pilot and a good gunner ... Well, maybe it's a too big nerf, but I can't say I don't play easy mode !!! But it's a fair nerf today for FPS players, and vehicules lonewolf fanboys can QQ for me !!! A Saga? Really if it was so easy why didnt you do it? oh yea right it would have insta popped On my first go as a Saga/missile gunner I went 51/1 (death was before gunning) and I knew at once those missiles were op. Doable, especially by better gunners than me. LAV didn't pop (thanks to good driving, mostly). After that trained my own Saga and the results were towards that.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.21 18:55:00 - [24] - Quote I havnt lost SP Plus it isnt easy mode, not when swarms can lock on through cover pop out launch missiles which bend around cover and hit you or when forge guns can snipe from behind a hill that you will never hit unless its a direct hit Anyways off to play tanks on DUST
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.11.21 19:02:00 - [25] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: But look at AV which remains unchanged Forge gun - Long range, high DPS, charge up time, is anti everything atm Swarms - Long range, dumb fired, lock on through cover, missiles bend around cover to hit targets, only anti vehicle/installation All the problems of AV still exist while the problems of HAVs are being replaced with more problems ??? What build are you talking about? Did those change TODAY? Not codex, that's for sure because: - Forges and swarms have limited range, wouldn't classify as 'long'. Rather 'medium-long'. - Swarms haven't dumb fired for ages - Swarms couldn't lock thru obstacles, even railings of a metallic crane interrupted process and broke locks. (true parts which need fixing/balancing: benging swarms, forge AI splash)
GLOO GLOO Algintal Core Gallente Federation 217	Posted - 2012.11.21 19:04:00 - [26] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: I havnt lost SP Plus it isnt easy mode, not when swarms can lock on through cover pop out launch missiles which bend around cover and hit you or when forge guns can snipe from behind a hill that you will never hit unless its a direct hit Anyways off to play tanks on DUST Anyway, vehicule play on a 16vs16 is kitten (better than a 12vs12 on BF3, I agree, but it's not enough for me)
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.11.21 19:14:00 - [27] - Quote Ok, even though I questioned some points I don't intend to be too harsh on Englishsnake, have still respect for you. Haven't tested any today's changes (if any) YET but I will. Before testing, my point is: Missiles, especially small, very not on par with other vehicle turrets and needed fixing. It is a shame if CCP over'balanced' them aka supernerfed them. But still better than no fix, I trust the balance will be found. HMG, for example went thru GOD-SCRAP-PRETTY GOOD - journey. As did forge guns, tank hulls and dropship flight model. Swarms and breach AR's are still waiting to get slightly up. RE's ended up being very situational. A tip to EVERYONE posting or reading posts: DON'T GET TOO AFFECTIONATE TOWARDS ANY SINGLE FEATURE IN GAME - EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO POSSIBLE CHANGE (beta etc etc...)
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.11.21 19:29:00 - [28] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: lol 56-0 Against randoms half the time who use milita and basic AV to try and destroy a tank with no teamwork what do you expect against idiots? Even then forge guns do the AV work damn well with so little SP put into it and also swarms which lock on through cover and missiles which bend around cover to hit the tank - if you cant even bother to skill up to begin with you deserve to lose because the AV is well in your hands now Brought it on ourselfs? Hm lets see, community cried about railguns they are now slow and only good for one thing tbh, also cried about tanks so all the resistances got nerfed and AV got buffed which still need to be fixed ie swarms because it has OP elements to it The community is getting closer to being able to kill a tank with an AR if a promethius can eat 3-4 forge gun shots and still fly away laughing then something is wrong. the militia shots do about 1200 damage explosive. maybe if they could be changed with a ammo mod i wouldn't see there being much of a problem. damage types need to be introduced along with a cap to make the tank pilots actually have to use some skill rather than "oh look missiles, im going to shoot at them untill i have 1/2 shields then run like a baby"
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.21 21:22:00 - [29] - Quote Range limit? Awesome. Damage nerf? Awesome. Splash radus nerf? Too far. Nerfing EVERYTHING was too much. Range was the main issue. Damage wasn't a major problem, but I'm not too upset with the change. Splash radius is the key. Missiles NEED that with the other nerfs in place.
Phantom Cheshire Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.11.21 21:30:00 - [30] - Quote BMSTUBBYx wrote: Yeah because HAV drivers going 56-0 was balanced. Against a team of Randoms it is.



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