Vehicles were spammed like mother *******, 2-3 infantry and the other 12 people in vehicles, yeah, real fun game CCP.

I won't say much more as I'm hoping you implement a no vehicle game-mode.

get vehicle game scrub.

VEHICLEGAME(tm) vs GUNGAME(tm)

Forge gun is a gun, yo.

get vehicle game scrub.

VEHICLEGAME(tm) vs GUNGAME(tm)

They just need to up it to 32vs32.

Vehicles were spammed like mother *******, 2-3 infantry and the other 12 people in vehicles, yeah, real fun game CCP.

I won't say much more as I'm hoping you implement a no vehicle game-mode.

There has also been talk to vehicle deployment being based on squad WP. Any corroboration on this?

They just need to up it to 32vs32.

More players means more vehicles.

They just need to up it to 32vs32.

They just need to up it to 32vs32.

but 5 tanks per side . . . that's 15 people right there

Will just mean more vehicle spam, tbh.

Wps needed to call in a vehicle is a good idea.

foolish boys. The final was a very hard played match including vehicle spam on both sides. And thats how this game is supposed to be played.

Well then the game will fail on that alone. Nobody plays FPS's just to sit in vehicles all game. If they can't balance the game for infantry players which would make up the majority of the game then good luck with retaining players...

Well then the game will fail on that alone. Nobody plays FPS's just to sit in vehicles all game. If they can't balance the game for infantry players which would make up the majority of the game then good luck with retaining players...

whiners gonna whine

I highly doubt that nobody isnt a precise description. I see plenty off tanks, LAV'S and dropships on the field.

Vehicles are a part of the game. period.

Vehicles are a part of the game. period.

people need to HTFU about it, or go back to playing their vehicle-less GUNGAME(tm) shooters.

and this is coming from someone who doesn't even have a vehicle fit beyond the starter one.

there are vehicles, and there are anti-vehicle measures. and more anti-vehicle measures to come. just because Anti-Vehicle measures are beneath the Elite GUNGAME(tm) and thus people refuse to use them and continue to die to tanks, doesn't mean that vehicles should be done away with.

people seem to think that if they can hold down R1 while strafing their sights over someone that they should never die to anything.

and for the OP, if you think that CCP will put a non-vehicle playmode in anything other than High-Sec, I've got an unpopulated planet in Jita to sell you.

^ PART of the game is key here. Allow the game to abuse vehicles and you alienate a large portion of your player base. Take them out and you do the same. They should be part of the game, but not focused on it. Balance is something BETA doesn't currently portray, and might be hard to implement given the circumstance. However, if these 'high level' matches are representative of a large portion of the final release's game play then this game will hardly be an MMO with a large 5+ year active player base (IMO).


Honestly, these posts** are sad and cater to both extremes of the scale.

**e.g. : Remove vehicles; stop whining and LTP its all fine; etc

get vehicle game scrub.

You can tell people to deal with it...but regis has a point. People play FPSs to shoot. You can tell people to deal with it but there may be only a few people "dealing with it", leading to a failure of the game.

Noone is totally against having vehicles....look at the Battlefield series. It is a series heavy on vehicles. But people don't mind because there are effective counters and you don't have to be all AV or bust. You can use your AR and carry C4, stingers, rockets, etc. In dust you either have your swarm launcher or your forge. And don't talk about sidearms with ARs gunning you down at distances.

That's a ******* awful idea. How about, EVERYONE has to use Militia Assault Rifles and then can only upgrade once they've got a certain amount of WPs in a match (So, Militia, then say 200 WP for next weapon, then another 200 WP for another). Sounds good right?

By making it so only players with WP in a match are allowed to use a Vehicle, you effectively destroy any attempt at making a solely vehicle character. If you hadn't noticed, many skills now have "Infantry" in front of them, which means that you will have to choose which role you want to go into until much later in the game, which means if this WP system was in place, Vehicle players (Who will have put all their SP into vehicles) will be nowhere near as good as Infantry only players, which means they'll rarely get to use the vehicles that are costing them 10x what your suits are costing you.

So then what about the infantry players who can't even make it 50m because of the tank and dropship spamming missiles everywhere? The reason for the wps is because vehicles are devastating on the battlefield in pub matches. Just like an orbital strike is.....someone gets in a dropship and that's exactly what they're doing.

Its the reason why you have to earn the OB and isn't simply something that you can buy with ISK. This is a shooter but it has become more about vehicles than anything else.

Missiles

foolish boys. The final was a very hard played match including vehicle spam on both sides. And thats how this game is supposed to be played.

Thing is, BF Vehicles are weak, but don't cost anything to use. Grab it from the spawn and go.
Half you guys believe Vehicles should be easy to take down, but at the current price, that's totally unreasonable. If a good tank didn't cost a million ISK atleast and instead was a lot cheaper, then sure we could make them weaker, but they're expensive pieces of equipment. To top of it off, the majority of people that dislike vehicles are people who've not specced into AV. I'm mostly Vehicles, but I have ok Infantry skills and I've actually used points for AV, it's not that hard to pop vehicles solo either.

let's hope that's what the winner does against CCP- spam the most OP things they can find. Maybe then they'll do something about it.

What does it matter how much the vehicle cost when people are bringing them out like water? Not to mention, the future ISK EVE transfers. Listen, you think protoype weapons and dropsuits are cheap? It is in no comparison to a sargaris but what if I used a proto AR dropsuit with some proto modules, some advanced, etc. I could easily build a suit close to $200K. If I die once with that suit @ these current ISK rewards, I may have lost money already. I could go advanced for the rest of the match and be in the red easy.

Yet, infantry dies as easy as anything. Our suits' health (hp) don't increase as you go higher. Just more slots.

There has also been talk to vehicle deployment being based on squad WP. Any corroboration on this?

So you can build a dropsuit which costs 200k for protogear? Isn't a Black Ops Tank (Pretty much Proto Tank right?) something like 2 mil for the tank alone? Then we include all the module to make it actually useful, which will bring us close to 2.5mil or so for the Tank (I'm pretty sure it's more than that actually), at that cost, you'll need to die about 12 times to be worth what that tank is. Now remember that this Tank will still pop to a good group of Forge Gunners. Still seems pretty balanced. As I said, Missiles are Broken, Tanks themselves are UP.

That's a ******* awful idea. How about, EVERYONE has to use Militia Assault Rifles and then can only upgrade once they've got a certain amount of WPs in a match (So, Militia, then say 200 WP for next weapon, then another 200 WP for another). Sounds good right?

By making it so only players with WP in a match are allowed to use a Vehicle, you effectively destroy any attempt at making a solely vehicle character. If you hadn't noticed, many skills now have "Infantry" in front of them, which means that you will have to choose which role you want to go into until much later in the game, which means if this WP system was in place, Vehicle players (Who will have put all their SP into vehicles) will be nowhere near as good as Infantry only players, which means they'll rarely get to use the vehicles that are costing them 10x what your suits are costing you.

It can be based off squad WP then, will it really kill you to stay in militia AR or sniper starter you have selected for a min or 2 before jumping into tank? It will cut down alot of the initial vehicle spam that imediatly decides most matches

At most times Imp had 5 guys in vehicles. The other 10 where infantry with either AV fits or set up going against other infantry.

So no tourney was not won by a spam of vehicles. Yes Vehicle users kept there vehicles up at all times but that was it.


So get of this high horse of vehicles destroying gameplay i think everyone can agree on corp v corp matches this adds to the excitement It adds to multi lvl planing for corps. And yes to keep vehicles up and running it cost corps tons of isk. So yes you need to be good to afford running vehicles.

Having good vehicle users does not make you automatically win the game. They are just a important assest. Yes a none vehicle team will get ran over by a team that supports decent vehicle users. But if that tank does not have ground support he is toast.

So no the tourney is not a testament to what you said because the 1st place corp did not spam vehicles.

Unless you count the 3 vehicle users that called in vehicles to replace the ones they loss.

Not if they keep current vehicle cap with a 32 v 32, if we ever went 64 v 64 like ccp claims will be , then ofc there is need for a higher cap. but 5 tanks per side for a 32 v 32 is plenty, that's 15 people right there per side using tank/dropship

And for those who think " but I specced into tanks and now somene with lesser skills can call one in before me so I can't do anything until he gets blown up" learn to use other stuff aswell. Tanks should not be a neccessary thing for every battle and have to be called in right from the start. Which is why i'm fond of the wp required to deploy idea, you will have to fight on the ground with a suit, earn a few points and escalate the battle.. then call in a tank if you feel it's needed. Not just call in a tank immediatly at start of a battle just because you can.

You're talking about an organized corp match where you have guys pre-selected into certain fits with certain jobs to do for the entire game. We are talking about regular random pub matches, in which most games are played.

Stupidity

Ignorance ^

Vehicles were spammed like mother *******, 2-3 infantry and the other 12 people in vehicles, yeah, real fun game CCP.

I won't say much more as I'm hoping you implement a no vehicle game-mode.

Not sure how you are able to talk like you were in the tournament... NPC corps weren't let in. :P

Everyone in this thread who is bitching about vehicles needs to get proto something whether it SWARMS or A FORGE or get some vehicle skills.....please cease the crying.Tanks cost 3.5 million ISK. Please ....you get pissed cuz your running around as a flesh bag and havent even spent a tenth of that......even if you rock all proto assault you wouldnt spend that.

1 side bitches about drop ships but the drop ships take out snipers and bombard tanks....Tanks remove turrets and are area denile weapons Im sorry its called ARMOR for for a reason.Go fuckin play ambush.

people are so 1 dimensional....and egotistical and can believe it when they die .I think whats more sad is there ok kickin the **** out of unorganized newbs while there in a squad of kick ass FPS players and have that crutch...go 25/30 and 0 alot of matches then ***** when they get owned by a tank....Im ok with it....to me its just karma biting me in the ass.Ill end up skilling vehicles at some point and SWARS and FORGE so it really doesnt matter at all.Ill be doing the same **** they are.Give me somthin to shoot for .Those same guys get out of the tank and they get owned there skills are in vehicles...if you want to hide in some Kidnegarten game mode go ahead.

EDIT:oh yeah 1 more thing you ***** about tanks but you dont ***** when someone on your team gets out a tank to kill all the LAV spam ....you know the guys that will be running over you when your running around in your VK01 with your Duvall lol get real.

Not as easy as you'd like to think. A leveled up tank may run 2-3mil isk, but a good driver in it, can go at least a dozen matches before even losing ONE. Pretty cost efficient.

Now you can make the argument "oh, just stop being one-dimensional and use a proto AV weapon" Not that easy. A proto AV along with a complex dmg modifier, will allow you to do 2000-2500 dmg pts, HOWEVER, that leveled up tank we talked about... it can have 8-10,000 HP!!! Even WITH your proto weapon, it can take you 4 shots to drop the tank. Good luck with that! A good driver will have killed you after the first shot. Chances are, the AV trooper will die SEVERAL times, either to the tank, while trying to destroy it... or two other infantry, since he/she is more vulnerable to them while using AV weapons. Realistically, you need at least 3 good AVers to take down a good tanker. Let's compare apples to apples, instead of giving abstract examples of "oh I took down a tank by myself the other day, you just need a proto forge" Chances are, this guys was using a proto forge, against a low-level tank.

BF series may have free vehicles, but it's balanced. Vehicles act as support to what the main game is...an FPS. They can play an important role in a battle, and in the right hands, be a HUGE factor, but if the opponents have one or two good AVers, they can keep them at bay. In Dust, you need 3 AV, just to stand a chance.

I'm not sure what the best way to balance the vehicles with infantry is, but I know right now, it's NOT where it should be. (IMO)

Not as easy as you'd like to think. A leveled up tank may run 2-3mil isk, but a good driver in it, can go at least a dozen matches before even losing ONE. Pretty cost efficient.

Now you can make the argument "oh, just stop being one-dimensional and use a proto AV weapon" Not that easy. A proto AV along with a complex dmg modifier, will allow you to do 2000-2500 dmg pts, HOWEVER, that leveled up tank we talked about... it can have 8-10,000 HP!!! Even WITH your proto weapon, it can take you 4 shots to drop the tank. Good luck with that! A good driver will have killed you after the first shot. Chances are, the AV trooper will die SEVERAL times, either to the tank, while trying to destroy it... or two other infantry, since he/she is more vulnerable to them while using AV weapons. Realistically, you need at least 3 good AVers to take down a good tanker. Let's compare apples to apples, instead of giving abstract examples of "oh I took down a tank by myself the other day, you just need a proto forge" Chances are, this guys was using a proto forge, against a low-level tank.

BF series may have free vehicles, but it's balanced. Vehicles act as support to what the main game is...an FPS. They can play an important role in a battle, and in the right hands, be a HUGE factor, but if the opponents have one or two good AVers, they can keep them at bay. In Dust, you need 3 AV, just to stand a chance.

I'm not sure what the best way to balance the vehicles with infantry is, but I know right now, it's NOT where it should be. (IMO)

Not as easy as you'd like to think. A leveled up tank may run 2-3mil isk, but a good driver in it, can go at least a dozen matches before even losing ONE. Pretty cost efficient.

Now you can make the argument "oh, just stop being one-dimensional and use a proto AV weapon" Not that easy. A proto AV along with a complex dmg modifier, will allow you to do 2000-2500 dmg pts, HOWEVER, that leveled up tank we talked about... it can have 8-10,000 HP!!! Even WITH your proto weapon, it can take you 4 shots to drop the tank. Good luck with that! A good driver will have killed you after the first shot. Chances are, the AV trooper will die SEVERAL times, either to the tank, while trying to destroy it... or two other infantry, since he/she is more vulnerable to them while using AV weapons. Realistically, you need at least 3 good AVers to take down a good tanker. Let's compare apples to apples, instead of giving abstract examples of "oh I took down a tank by myself the other day, you just need a proto forge" Chances are, this guys was using a proto forge, against a low-level tank.

BF series may have free vehicles, but it's balanced. Vehicles act as support to what the main game is...an FPS. They can play an important role in a battle, and in the right hands, be a HUGE factor, but if the opponents have one or two good AVers, they can keep them at bay. In Dust, you need 3 AV, just to stand a chance.

I'm not sure what the best way to balance the vehicles with infantry is, but I know right now, it's NOT where it should be. (IMO)

Like it or not but most people play FPS games for the on foot shooting. The few games that use vehicles make it so they can be taken out easily or can't control the battlefield. You don't see game makers making games called FVS (first vehicle shooters) simply because the market for those type of games is so much smaller than FPS. I've been playing this beta for a while and enjoy the game but if they make Dust a FVS it won't have a big enough player base to succeed free or not.

A tank driver will put in 4 million skill points be fore its all said and done for PROTO everything.Some guy bitching that his Assault only character cant compete with that is quite frankly....nonsense.The COST is the MECHANIC.

Knightshade Belladonna]
And what you think it takes 500 skillpoints to max and proto everything for an assault or forge guy?


edit* how the fk did our quotes get all fkd

Did you read the title???
"Tourney was a testiment to what I've always said."

Funny...I read one side arguing about folks being one-dimensional then turn around and say no to wps because they're afraid of going up against other infantry because they specced into vehicles only lol.

Anyway...wps wasn't my idea, I just liked the idea. Is it a fair one?...maybe not. So, they can scratch it off the board. But it's rather funny how vehicle operators are worried about being in a fight with infantry because they haven't leveled any of those skills. Well, what about infantry? Infantry has to level up their skills to survive ground combat and AV. Not to mention, you can't really be both. You have a swarm launcher or an AR. A forge or an HMG.

If CCP allowed infantry to use an AR with an effective AV weapon in the same dropsuit....then that may just be enough. There's no reason why we can't strap a rocket launcher onto the back of our dropsuits. We can do it in others and this is a space game with future tech, right?

Any estimates on what today's 4 battles cost both sides? Today we saw 4 battles, but it will take something like 12 to take a planet, and we had no OB today. So say a minimum of 3X today's layout for planetary capture. It will give us a feeling for what break-even will be for district battles.

Also not factored in today was cost of the MCC, cost of clones, cost of ammo.

We mercs are definitely going to be negotiating Contracts as Payroll + expenses.

Vehicles were spammed like mother *******, 2-3 infantry and the other 12 people in vehicles, yeah, real fun game CCP.

I won't say much more as I'm hoping you implement a no vehicle game-mode.

The Battlefield series is on what number now?And there coming out with a fourth for console...and how many copies combined would you say that was?How long has that franchise been going?Do you play EVE?A vehicle game........huh what?

You're talking about an organized corp match where you have guys pre-selected into certain fits with certain jobs to do for the entire game. We are talking about regular random pub matches, in which most games are played.

I bet over half of the people that play battlefield play it for the ground gun game, not vehicles. Also unlike Dust most BF players can blow of vehicles while still being ground assualt guys. So all in all vehicles don't run BF since they can be handled and don't control the whole battle.

I was going to mention BF in my original post but I kind of figured some people would be smart enough to realize that most people do play BF for the gun game, yeah it does appeal to the small amount with vehicles but it doesn't spam vehicles and it doesn't make the vehicles win the matches. Dust can and should use vehicles but need to find a better balance than they have.

I sigh at you even mentioning EVE. Is EVE on ps3 huh? Next you are going to say something about Halo being on Ps3.

What happened on BF3 when they introduced CQB? Nobody played it...

Vehicles are here to stay. Get used to the fact. This game is not BF3 or BO2 or MW3. This is Dust514. A game that is trying to be different.

Don't know if I can speak for everyone that participated in last nights finals. Vehicles made that game awesome. Going against well versed vehicle players was a blast.

You really feel like death is around every corner.

I had really hoped that because it was The Imperfects vs SI. That for 1 Monday there would be no complaining on the forums about vehicles.

Edit: The finals were not only vehicle spam. It was a part of the warfare. Clones were getting dropped by all sorts of weapons.

There are no competitive shooters where vehicles are more important than infantry.
DUST will fail.

There are no competitive shooters where vehicles are more important than infantry.
DUST will fail.

I like the idea of it, havn't heard anything from devs about something like that.. but I like it. Not as much as needed for an OB, but some wp so it cant be initially dropped right from start.

like

LAV - No cost
Dropship - 200 wp
HAV - 350 wp
Gunship/jet ( if it happens) - 500 wp

Vehicles were spammed like mother *******, 2-3 infantry and the other 12 people in vehicles, yeah, real fun game CCP.

I won't say much more as I'm hoping you implement a no vehicle game-mode.

More players means more vehicles.

DUST will have gladiator arenas for eSports play
the modes we are playin now suppose to more represent war skirmishes than eSports competitive matches

Vehicles are here to stay. Get used to the fact. This game is not BF3 or BO2 or MW3. This is Dust514. A game that is trying to be different.

Don't know if I can speak for everyone that participated in last nights finals. Vehicles made that game awesome. Going against well versed vehicle players was a blast.

You really feel like death is around every corner.

I had really hoped that because it was The Imperfects vs SI. That for 1 Monday there would be no complaining on the forums about vehicles.

Edit: The finals were not only vehicle spam. It was a part of the warfare. Clones were getting dropped by all sorts of weapons.

This thread is chock full of people who don't understand the concept of mechanized warfare...

There are no competitive shooters where vehicles are more important than infantry.

Having played the tournament, whoever brings the best vehicle game wins. Because they remove the oppositions vehicles. That gives you air superiority & armour superiority. Infantry are worthless at that stage.

Infantry is just the name given to people waiting for vehicles.

Having played the tournament, whoever brings the best vehicle game wins. Because they remove the oppositions vehicles. That gives you air superiority & armour superiority. Infantry are worthless at that stage.

Infantry is just the name given to people waiting for vehicles.

Having played the tournament, whoever brings the best vehicle game wins. Because they remove the oppositions vehicles. That gives you air superiority & armour superiority. Infantry are worthless at that stage.

Infantry is just the name given to people waiting for vehicles.

Our suits are mech also, mech warfare does not mean vehicle spam. Sure the original dawn of mech warfare with tanks in ww1 was vehicle only.. but we are thousands of years in the future hear where everything is technological and machine driven. Oh and by the way this isn't labled as mech warfare or mech warriors online.. it's a fps with more infantry roles than vehicle.. so point is mute

I think the biggest issues is that on the maps we don't have areas where vehicles can't exert influence. One of the biggest balancing factors now is that ONLY infantry can cap a null cannon. The problem is that vehicles can completely lock any null cannon down.

We need large interior areas on the map that only infantry can go. We have maps like the orbital cannon that somewhat accomplish this. The only problem right now is they are so buggy that most people won't play on them due to the frame rate drops.

The finals were amazing and a testament to mixed arms combat. I think vehicles are fine in terms of health, but turrets in many cases (especially missile turrets small and large) are extremely over powered.

This thread is chock full of people who don't understand the concept of mechanized warfare...