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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:48:00 - [91] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tony Calif wrote: I throw nades at incomming LAVs all the time. They are part of the reason AV nades are on all my fits. I don't see how making them AUR only will change the gameplay except to pin noobs in their spawns. That's what the topic is about. @noc Over reaching? Not IMHO. I don't think AV grenades should be a necessity. I don't think they should be AUR only, I think they should keep the militia LAV as paid and replace the BPO with a new vehicle that is either a better troop transport (4 seat jeep) or personal transport (1 seat bike) that you cannot add modules to nor gunned (besides the passengers). The problem isn't ISK prices, it is the lack of SP and risk involved for the ease of killing any infantry. I am against ALL 1HK items, including the current missile turrets. In other words nerf snipers, railguns, forge guns, mass drivers, shotguns, impact grenades, remote explosives, missile turrets and lav collisions. All these in the right hands are 1hk so lets just nerf um all cus 1hk is bad. Um, yes? That would definitely make for better gameplay. It has to require great skill at the very least for 1HK to be balanced.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:50:00 - [92] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: if you want to move around the map in a vehicle you should have to pay for it, or buy an AUR BPO. It's not that bad... Throw AV grenades and they blow up in 1-2 hits :P Yea but not everyone wants to carry around AV grenades. And they shouldn't have to either.
Jarre Jardox Cool Story But It Needs More EVE 30	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:09:00 - [93] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tony Calif wrote: I throw nades at incomming LAVs all the time. They are part of the reason AV nades are on all my fits. I don't see how making them AUR only will change the gameplay except to pin noobs in their spawns. That's what the topic is about. @noc Over reaching? Not IMHO. I don't think AV grenades should be a necessity. I don't think they should be AUR only, I think they should keep the militia LAV as paid and replace the BPO with a new vehicle that is either a better troop transport (4 seat jeep) or personal transport (1 seat bike) that you cannot add modules to nor gunned (besides the passengers). The problem isn't ISK prices, it is the lack of SP and risk involved for the ease of killing any infantry. I am against ALL 1HK items, including the current missile turrets. In other words nerf snipers, railguns, forge guns, mass drivers, shotguns, impact grenades, remote explosives, missile turrets and lav collisions. All these in the right hands are 1hk so lets just nerf um all cus 1hk is bad. Um, yes? That would definitely make for better gameplay. It has to require great skill at the very least for 1HK to be balanced. If you nerf these weapons then wat is the point of having them in game? For example if a forge gun doesn't have massive dmg it can't kill a tank and as a side effect is 1hk, so if u nerf it its a pointless weapon might as well remove it. All these weapons have a purpose (and a counter) and if u nerf them it takes away their purpose so just remove them instead so all we have are assault rifles, laser rifles, scrambler pistols and smgs. Oh wait recent threads have pointed out tht laser rifles assault rifles and scrambler are all op so we might as well remove them as well. Only smgs ppl thts all you get. Flavorless 514
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:15:00 - [94] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Tony Calif wrote: I throw nades at incomming LAVs all the time. They are part of the reason AV nades are on all my fits. I don't see how making them AUR only will change the gameplay except to pin noobs in their spawns. That's what the topic is about. @noc Over reaching? Not IMHO. I don't think AV grenades should be a necessity. I don't think they should be AUR only, I think they should keep the militia LAV as paid and replace the BPO with a new vehicle that is either a better troop transport (4 seat jeep) or personal transport (1 seat bike) that you cannot add modules to nor gunned (besides the passengers). The problem isn't ISK prices, it is the lack of SP and risk involved for the ease of killing any infantry. I am against ALL 1HK items, including the current missile turrets. In other words nerf snipers, railguns, forge guns, mass drivers, shotguns, impact grenades, remote explosives, missile turrets and lav collisions. All these in the right hands are 1hk so lets just nerf um all cus 1hk is bad. Um, yes? That would definitely make for better gameplay. It has to require great skill at the very least for 1HK to be balanced. If you nerf these weapons then wat is the point of having them in game? For example if a forge gun doesn't have massive dmg it can't kill a tank and as a side effect is 1hk, so if u nerf it its a pointless weapon might as well remove it. All these weapons have a purpose (and a counter) and if u nerf them it takes away their purpose so just remove them instead so all we have are assault rifles, laser rifles, scrambler pistols and smgs. Oh wait recent threads have pointed out tht laser rifles assault rifles and scrambler are all op so we might as well remove them as well. Only smgs ppl thts all you get. Flavorless 514 You have a flawed idea of feedback. I am saying up the skill and/or risk criteria for OHKs. Never did I say remove all the weapons from the game.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:20:00 - [95] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Nstomper wrote: shouldnt be fatal? It's a car crushing a dude at fast speeds Who cares? Moving forward and steering a bit in a free vehicle should not be able to drop someone in proto gear. And it's not a car crushing a dude, it's a car hitting a supersoldier clone encased in armor that can withstand lasers and missiles and plasma rounds, and all with a forcefield around it. Even one of us getting hit by a car wouldn't necessarily be fatal, and we're regular jackoffs and not video game space men. Yes, yes it should. Alldin Kan wrote: if you want to move around the map in a vehicle you should have to pay for it, or buy an AUR BPO. It's not that bad... Throw AV grenades and they blow up in 1-2 hits :P Yea but not everyone wants to carry around AV grenades. And they shouldn't have to either. why not? they work really well.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:23:00 - [96] - Quote Rename this thread sQQuelch
Jarre Jardox Cool Story But It Needs More EVE 30	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:34:00 - [97] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: ] I don't think AV grenades should be a necessity. I don't think they should be AUR only, I think they should keep the militia LAV as paid and replace the BPO with a new vehicle that is either a better troop transport (4 seat jeep) or personal transport (1 seat bike) that you cannot add modules to nor gunned (besides the passengers). The problem isn't ISK prices, it is the lack of SP and risk involved for the ease of killing any infantry. I am against ALL 1HK items, including the current missile turrets. In other words nerf snipers, railguns, forge guns, mass drivers, shotguns, impact grenades, remote explosives, missile turrets and lav collisions. All these in the right hands are 1hk so lets just nerf um all cus 1hk is bad. Um, yes? That would definitely make for better gameplay. It has to require great skill at the very least for 1HK to be balanced. If you nerf these weapons then wat is the point of having them in game? For example if a forge gun doesn't have massive dmg it can't kill a tank and as a side effect is 1hk, so if u nerf it its a pointless weapon might as well remove it. All these weapons have a purpose (and a counter) and if u nerf them it takes away their purpose so just remove them instead so all we have are assault rifles, laser rifles, scrambler pistols and smgs. Oh wait recent threads have pointed out tht laser rifles assault rifles and scrambler are all op so we might as well remove them as well. Only smgs ppl thts all you get. Flavorless 514 You have a flawed idea of feedback. I am saying up the skill and/or risk criteria for OHKs. Never did I say remove all the weapons from the game. i know you didnt say remove the weapons, im not saying you did. im saying that if you nerf everything that is 1hk then you remove the purpose of the weapon and if the weapon has no purpose why is it in the game? Lavs are trash as it is because they are hard to control and the gunner has no protection, you want to remove the one thing skilled lav drivers have to be and effective weapon, collisions. they are not light transport vehicles, they are light attack vehicles. I dont have a problem with making the free vehicle something else like a 4 person jeep or a single man bike, but if you remove 1hk collisions then the lav becomes a pointless vehicle.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 914	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:02:00 - [98] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Tony Calif wrote: LoL Scrubs. Get AV or gtfo. Keep the free LAV. I'm sorry but free LAV's have always taken away from gameplay. If you want to use a vehicle you should have to pay for it or buy a BPO. It makes absolutely no sense that kids can spam free LAV's when they have to pay for their dropsuits. It also doesn't make sense that you can call a tank on a building and shoot into the red zone keeping anything from moving out, but you did that. Hmmm. Tony is right. Keep the free LAV's. Somebody that's butthurt because I denied them a spawn point using a Militia Sica with a blaster on it. Seriously if You can't take out a militia Sica sitting on top of a building begging to get shot down you might as well quit playing the game. Anyways thats besides the point. Nothing in this game should be "free" unless you buy the BPO using AUR as stated in the OP. Nope, not at all - I was on your team when you did it. I'm just pointing out that there are things that are illogical in the game that you took advantage of, in the case of the tank on a building you were taking advantage of a known bug that caused problems with spawn points so you could wrap up 50-60 kills in a match - kind of an exploit of the game, don't you think? You didn't complain when it was on your side, and now that it is pointed out that something that is not a bug is ruining your day, this is when you complain. You didn't report the bug to CCP then, so you don't have the right to complain now when there is a legitimate tactic in game that you don't like.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 914	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:03:00 - [99] - Quote Super Cargo wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: if you want to move around the map in a vehicle you should have to pay for it, or buy an AUR BPO. It's not that bad... Throw AV grenades and they blow up in 1-2 hits :P Yea but not everyone wants to carry around AV grenades. And they shouldn't have to either. You're right - that's why you join matches in squads to complement each other's skills and play styles. This is squad based warfare, or supposed to be anyway.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:12:00 - [100] - Quote Jarre Jardox wrote: i know you didnt say remove the weapons, im not saying you did. im saying that if you nerf everything that is 1hk then you remove the purpose of the weapon and if the weapon has no purpose why is it in the game? Lavs are trash as it is because they are hard to control and the gunner has no protection, you want to remove the one thing skilled lav drivers have to be and effective weapon, collisions. they are not light transport vehicles, they are light attack vehicles. I dont have a problem with making the free vehicle something else like a 4 person jeep or a single man bike, but if you remove 1hk collisions then the lav becomes a pointless vehicle. Your idea of balance is garbage. It takes no skill to run people over, and if you think that is the only thing LAV's are good for, you are simple wrong. LAV's are brutal as AP vehicles right now. Hell, you can even give tanks a run for their money. If you NEED one hit kill weapons in a game to get kills, you are bad. Rocket tag is fun for quick comedy, not serious competition or long term fun.

Jarre Jardox Cool Story But It Needs More EVE 30	Posted - 2012.11.02 20:10:00 - [101] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Jarre Jardox wrote: i know you didnt say remove the weapons, im not saying you did. im saying that if you nerf everything that is 1hk then you remove the purpose of the weapon and if the weapon has no purpose why is it in the game? Lavs are trash as it is because they are hard to control and the gunner has no protection, you want to remove the one thing skilled lav drivers have to be and effective weapon, collisions. they are not light transport vehicles, they are light attack vehicles. I dont have a problem with making the free vehicle something else like a 4 person jeep or a single man bike, but if you remove 1hk collisions then the lav becomes a pointless vehicle. Your idea of balance is garbage. It takes no skill to run people over, and if you think that is the only thing LAV's are good for, you are simple wrong. LAV's are brutal as AP vehicles right now. Hell, you can even give tanks a run for their money. If you NEED one hit kill weapons in a game to get kills, you are bad. Rocket tag is fun for quick comedy, not serious competition or long term fun. actually MY idea of balance is "a" counters "b" which counters "c" which counters "a", each item has its own niche and style of play and is the counter to something else. for the most part i see a lot of this in game. but nerfing "b" because it 1hk throws of this balance: "a" counter "b" and "c" counters "a" but there is no counter to "c" because "b" was nerfed. free throwaway lavs dont require skill to drive, not because they are op but because of the mentality u have driving them, if you lose it who cares it was free no big you only lost the isk of your dropsuit, so drive with reckless abandon. as a player that has an alt specced only into lav and lav support skills i can assure u driving a non free lav u dont have the same mentality. Not losing your lav becomes very important because it costs as much as a fully proto dropsuit. you dont stop for anything really because with all the av nades and forge guns running around stopping or even just dramatically slowing down can cost you 150k isk, so you start thinking about things like is that guy by that building alone or does he have budies around the corner, if i engage him will that tiny hill make me do a 180, where is that forge gunner i saw 10 seconds ago, are there swarms behind me, was that a locus grenade he just cooked or an av grenade. its not as easy as you make it out to be. and come on the gunner on an lav is a joke. the only thing its good for really is harassing tanks since anyone can shoot you off easier than dominating a game in a dropship. my gunners get an average of 3 kills before getting shot off. if you work with your gunner to get in good overwatch positions they get sniped out not to mention that if you let your gunner shoot while your driving around you draw way to much attention to yourself and ppl start hunting you down like your a tank. so yes u need to be able to run ppl over to be an effective weapon otherwise wats the point?
Ghost-33 ShootBreakStab 108	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:12:00 - [102] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Nstomper wrote: shouldnt be fatal? It's a car crushing a dude at fast speeds Who cares? Moving forward and steering a bit in a free vehicle should not be able to drop someone in proto gear. And it's not a car crushing a dude, it's a car hitting a supersoldier clone encased in armor that can withstand lasers and missiles and plasma rounds, and all with a forcefield around it. Even one of us getting hit by a car wouldn't necessarily be fatal, and we're regular jackoffs and not video game space men. lolwut?!
Valentine Crendre ZionTCD Legacy Rising 12	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:27:00 - [103] - Quote As someone who has speced into LAVs and Dropships before, the free milita LAVs are definitely too much and they are being spammed. Again, this is coming from a LAV guy... I should love free LAVs, if anybody. No, I'm not a guy running around in proto suits losing ISK because I get roadkilled - I use militia crap because I spend all my ISK on vehicle crap. And no, I don't get frustrated with peoples free LAVs killing my good LAVs. Hell, I can create a mid-range LAV (not even top-tier) with small blasters that can beat a free LAV with a missile launcher in a 1 v 1 scenario providing I have a competent gunner and quality blasters equipped, of course... besides, the top-tier LAVs (Logistics LAVS) have something like a 50% damage reduction? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is... silly. Why even have a turret gun on them? It should be a giant remote control repair gun or some crazy loggy-type sh!t. On a side note: The missile turret > blaster turret business still needs tweaking. The only reason why I can pull off a Blaster LAV beating a Militia Missile LAV is if I run PROTO BLASTERS WITH DAMAGE MODS... And that's just not kosher... or cheap. And though this is an entirely different point, it plays a part and I will get to that... ANY LAV, militia or not, should NOT be free nor should they have a p2w BPO. I think the only things that should have BPO are the things that are already available in BPOs like some of the basic militia gear and the basic crummy dropsuit (which you don't need BPO for cuz it's already free, I think). So far, this seems to be working fine for the state that this beta is currently in. Any one who can decently play this game can make money, with time and patience, and begin to progress in the game with those simple basic things. How many of us have done so already...? The militia LAVs should be an item you need to purchase and stock if you want to use it. If people want more seating capacity in the ground vehicles, then it's time for CCP to implement, at least, a militia APC (and the pilot suit already, sh!t...) There is no free militia dropships and tanks (anymore)... there should be no free LAVs. They can be just as deadly if used properly (or just spammed... sigh). Back to my previous point. Once LAVs are no longer free, the small turret classes need balancing, without a doubt. I assume/hope that the reason blasters are so... terribly useless... is because they didn't want a ton of spammed LAVS on the field with killer blasters. Once LAVs are pay for, the small blasters (and maybe the small rail, haven't had many opportunities to try it but it seems nerfed in AV situations) need a proper buff to offer distinct advantages and disadvantages compared to the missile launcher and the other turrets that we will eventually see. It's a shame that small proto blasters WITH the top damage mod AND all the hybrid turret skills maxed... do comparable damage to a Duvolle infantry rifle... At base damage... not even equipped with the gun skills that an infantry player would undoubtedly have... just sitting there in the market. Shameful... I would expect vehicle mounted turrets to be, at least moderately, more damaging than infantry small arms assault rifles. However CCP, before you consider any one of our various gripes, complaints, and moans... PLEASE FIX THE LAG ISSUE FFS. Sometimes I can't even shoot someone in front of me! Or I warp off a ledge AND I'm facing in the opposite direction... wtf is up with that? I won't even touch Skirmish anymore. Are PSN North American servers really this atrocious?
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.11.02 22:35:00 - [104] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Yes, because the way this stuff works is that you skill up to prototype, spending 50k on a prototype suit, and are meant to derive no benefit at all from it. Good thinking there, genius. "Derive no benefit"? Do you not shoot anyone in between becoming an expensive red stain on the floor?
Richard Blackburn Blackburn Odyssey 55	Posted - 2012.11.02 22:38:00 - [105] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: The free lav should be 4 seats, no gun, no modules. The paid lavs should have freaking roofs. Any roadkill should do equal damage back, potentially leading to awesome stand your ground moments with heavies Im Barrack Obama and i approve this message.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.02 23:50:00 - [106] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: "Derive no benefit"? Do you not shoot anyone in between becoming an expensive red stain on the floor? What does that have to do with whether LAVs should be able to one-hit-kill anyone regardless of the gear they're wearing?


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