Killzone 2 has the best gunplay of this generation. DUST could learn a few things about gunplay from killzone.

Well putting things in eve perspective its highly possible for tech 2 to be defeated by tech 1.

I've only ran militia fits and tribute suits this build. Up against someone with a similar fit, I usually do ok. If I'm up against someone with better gear (even just a GEK), then I have a hell of a time beating them. The only reason I survive some of those engagements is because I'm not horrible at this game.
Upgrading your gear most definitely gives you a damned good advantage.

Difficult situation...
I liked it the first few days of precursor where we were restricted by suit lvl. I.E. you can't use advanced suits in a standard/militia level battle. Sandbox be damned. Some cat will only poop in the sandbox.

Quite a few of us just stayed in the proto server. Others kept in the militia. It WORKED :D

Things are far too flat in comparison to Replication. That's for certain.

That may be a disparity between my skill set and yours thought not everyone is the same, which is why I also think this is a very touchy subject. But here's a question for you. Do you know the guy you shot had an armor plate or not or even a shield extender? Can you possibly reverse engineer his fit based on how quickly he died or how he died?

While I agree with most of the statement it just feels that stuff I am putting onto the suits has nearly no effect. Why put on armor plates? why shield extenders. You will answer more HP, and I answer back does the 100 more HP really matter?

Disclaimer: Been here 3 builds, I know its a beta, I hang out in IRC alot and know what the devs are up to well before most of the community is and actually hated for it, my interest in game development is extremely high and I have done alot of 'research' to approach philosophy of designing games.

I have spent 3 weeks researching why my will to play has been waning, its not the bugs, lack of balance, the short comings of an incomplete game, or lack of features, while this may not be the exact problem why I don't feel like playing I honestly beleve this is the most likely culprit.

So onto the issue.

Just like the soda you forgot about in the back of your car the fizzy is no longer there, the want to drink that soda is gone now.

What do I mean? Where do I know? How does go? I'll explain.

To help you out let me define flat term for you as I use it in this context and no it doesn't mean the maps are flat.


So... what is a Flat game?

A game that does not emphasize getting better gear simply because its not a possible option as 'better' weapons don't really exist because all weapons are balanced and its more about the situation or play preference.

Some examples, Counter Strike, Halo, CoD1-2, Earlier Battlefields

To call these games flat isn't a bad thing, the shift in focus from either being able to use one gun very well, or use the best gun for that situation. I would point out that Halo was probably the best example of this (though biased via endless hours of playing for nothing), there was absolutely no 'go-to' weapon in the game, every weapon was subject to drawbacks vulnerabilities and short sightedness for whatever advantage you can get out of it. A guy with a pistol can still easily kill a guy with a rocket launcher.

Now onto flat games unsightly evil twin the Depth Game

This is a non flat game emphasizes progression, or 'optional-ization' you way into bigger and better game play options, guns, add-ons, attributes ect ect ect. The game that dust 514 is trying to sell itself off as.

Games like current battlefields and current call of duties, and just about all of your MMOs. The more you play the 'deeper' it gets in terms of things to do, ways to improve and of course ways to play.

So you may be asking, what am I complaining about?

I have gotten to the point in this game where I feel that its far to flat despite flaunting around the depth.

Slap on an armor plate? I still die just as fast as if I never had the armor plates. Usually in the current environment right now is that when I start dying I die so fast the HP bar cannot keep up so having armor doesn't seem to slow that down at all no matter how good it is.

How about weapons?
Other than getting to lvl 2 to unlock different types or the swarm launcher. I don't seem to kill faster with 'better' guns than previously before, Heavies still drop to my militia rifle nearly at the same rate to my Duvolle. The swarm launcher is the only anomalous weapon that has markedly vast gapping between meta levels.

The point is, Skill Points, Meta-levels, and Isk has just about no value to me. There is no progression or at least no feel of it. If I have to spend 3 weeks of skilling and gearing just to feel marginal amounts of difference (which it doesn't)

There is nearly no change in feeling on equipping modules either. It almost as if I am not getting rewarded for creating good fits and I certainly am not getting punished for making bad fits. In eve making bad fits is amazing transmitted clearly as a bad idea once you face something that melts your face off.

Its actually its to the point I am getting PUNISHED for making good fits. because after all dying costs isk and good modules cost alot of isk. (thought that can be fixed and it will be soon)

Now it wouldn't be so bad if and only if the flat game was good, Its not. There are so many unused modules, guns, and far to few many goto weapons resulting in most people copying each other on weapon usage.

Gun handling is still bad, I had to go back and play halo to get and idea of smoothed out console based gun handling. While its not as bad as Kill Zone's torso on pegs, dust 514 does have the pegged torso feel to it, just extremely higher fidelity vs KZ but its enough to **** anyone off who has played halo a lot which doesn't feel pegged at all.

While I have to side with the FPSers that having skills effect performance can be seen as a bad thing. When it comes to to weapons being advertised as being bigger and better and there is still no feeling of bigger oumph, something is entirely off.

Overall I feel that the game has gone extremely flat the last few builds with all the skill level nerfs meta level refactoring and suit hp squashing, just overall its not been entirely helpful.

It just feels if you where to give me a character with maxed out SP and lots of isk I still wouldn't be able to enjoy, notice the difference, and probably just go back to using militia suits. Less load lag that way.

Either way I am not feeling it, playing dust 514 these days feels like pulling teeth. So I break I shall take.

TL;DR

I feel this game has gotten to the point that I feel there is no difference between a militia suit with only a gun on it vs a full proto suit with proto modules and max SP, ergo no need to progress. IE ISK SP and Metalevel has no meaning anymore.

Wow, literally could not have said it better myself.

I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable.

When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_<

I think the problem is that everything is being balanced around the beta. The relatively small player base and low-integration with EVE requires that it be a flat game. However, in the long run (i.e. Launch and integration with EVE) this game needs more depth when it comes to suits, weapons, and modules.

Let's be honest, the mechanics won't be winning this game any awards, so they might as well focus on a very deep progression system. Focus on your strengths CCP.

Right now I am feeling that the very low rewards has significnatly destroyed our player base partiicpation atm.

But they cant win

If they skill cap is raised just to say 1mil and 1.5mil with boosters the gap will be bigger but ppl would still hit the cap i bet and then not play till next reset

If ther is no cap no lifers will just skill up well ahead of casual players

If we go EVE style ppl will cry that it takes days for 1 skill to hit 5

HIGH sec.
LOW sec.
NULL sec.

THREE DISTINCT areas!

Thats whats missing!!
Who cares about SP gained at what rate if you are UNDER 5 M SP then you are in high sec or starter areas and face equals.
Over 5 M SP and you are in middle areas and face equals up to 10 M SP.

Over 10 M SP and you are in advanced areas and face advanced enemies.

Yes but in EVE anyone can move wherever they want to no matter how much SP they have, i really dont see that coming into DUST tbh, maybe matchmaking lobbys but thats about it

While I agree with most of the statement it just feels that stuff I am putting onto the suits has nearly no effect. Why put on armor plates? why shield extenders. You will answer more HP, and I answer back does the 100 more HP really matter?

HIGH sec.
LOW sec.
NULL sec.

THREE DISTINCT areas!


What stops CCP from creating three starter Moons, three midpoint Moons and then clones can go anyplace they want once they pass the 10 M SP?
Thats whats missing!!
Who cares about SP gained at what rate if you are UNDER 5 M SP then you are in high sec or starter areas and face equals.
Over 5 M SP and you are in middle areas and face equals up to 10 M SP.

Over 10 M SP and you are in advanced areas and face advanced enemies.

I think the problem is that everything is being balanced around the beta. The relatively small player base and low-integration with EVE requires that it be a flat game. However, in the long run (i.e. Launch and integration with EVE) this game needs more depth when it comes to suits, weapons, and modules.

Let's be honest, the mechanics won't be winning this game any awards, so they might as well focus on a very deep progression system. Focus on your strengths CCP.

I do not mind the HP squashing, CCP said they did it to shift focus to the modules.

The problem with modules which I am declaring non-contributive.

Also to that note, militia gear is OP and I am saying this as a heavy user of the damn things.