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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:01:00 - [1] - Quote Disclaimer: Been here 3 builds, I know its a beta, I hang out in IRC alot and know what the devs are up to well before most of the community is and actually hated for it, my interest in game development is extremely high and I have done alot of 'research' to approach philosophy of designing games. I have spent 3 weeks researching why my will to play has been waning, its not the bugs, lack of balance, the short comings of an incomplete game, or lack of features, while this may not be the exact problem why I don't feel like playing I honestly beleve this is the most likely culprit. So onto the issue. Just like the soda you forgot about in the back of your car the fizzy is no longer there, the want to drink that soda is gone now. What do I mean? Where do I know? How does go? I'll explain. To help you out let me define flat term for you as I use it in this context and no it doesn't mean the maps are flat. So... what is a Flat game? A game that does not emphasize getting better gear simply because its not a possible option as 'better' weapons don't really exist because all weapons are balanced and its more about the situation or play preference. Some examples, Counter Strike, Halo, CoD1-2, Earlier Battlefields To call these games flat isn't a bad thing, the shift in focus from either being able to use one gun very well, or use the best gun for that situation. I would point out that Halo was probably the best example of this (though biased via endless hours of playing for nothing), there was absolutely no 'go-to' weapon in the game, every weapon was subject to drawbacks vulnerabilities and short sightedness for whatever advantage you can get out of it. A guy with a pistol can still easily kill a guy with a rocket launcher. Now onto flat games unsightly evil twin the Depth Game This is a non flat game emphasizes progression, or 'optional-ization' you way into bigger and better game play options, guns, add-ons, attributes ect ect ect. The game that dust 514 is trying to sell itself off as. Games like current battlefields and current call of duties, and just about all of your MMOs. The more you play the 'deeper' it gets in terms of things to do, ways to improve and of course ways to play. So you may be asking, what am I complaining about? I have gotten to the point in this game where I feel that its far to flat despite flaunting around the depth. Example in Module Slap on an armor plate? I still die just as fast as if I never had the armor plates. Usually in the current environment right now is that when I start dying I die so fast the HP bar cannot keep up so having armor doesn't seem to slow that down at all no matter how good it is. I rarely survive people shooting in current envrionments which doesnt really warrent the use of repairs, Shields are to thin seemingly vaporized near instatnly despite skill backing. The most anomolous or exmpetion to this feeling would be the deployable equipment. How about weapons? Other than getting to lvl 2 to unlock different types or the swarm launcher. I don't seem to kill faster with 'better' guns than previously before, Heavies still drop to my militia rifle nearly at the same rate to my Duvolle. The swarm launcher is the only anomalous weapon that has markedly vast gapping between meta levels. The point is, Skill Points, Meta-levels, and Isk has just about no value to me. There is no progression or at least no feel of it. If I have to spend 3 weeks of skilling and gearing just to feel marginal amounts of difference (which it doesn't) There is nearly no change in feeling on equipping modules either. It almost as if I am not getting rewarded for creating good fits and I certainly am not getting punished for making bad fits. In eve making bad fits is amazing transmitted clearly as a bad idea once you face something that melts your face off. Its actually its to the point I am getting PUNISHED for making good fits. because after all dying costs isk and good modules cost alot of isk. (thought that can be fixed and it will be soon) Now it wouldn't be so bad if and only if the flat game was good, Its not. There are so many unused modules, guns, and far to few many goto weapons resulting in most people copying each other on weapon usage. Gun handling is still bad, I had to go back and play halo to get and idea of smoothed out console based gun handling. While its not as bad as Kill Zone's torso on pegs, dust 514 does have the pegged torso feel to it, just extremely higher fidelity vs KZ but its enough to ** anyone off who has played halo a lot which doesn't feel pegged at all. While I have to side with the FPSers that having skills effect performance can be seen as a bad thing. When it comes to to weapons being advertised as being bigger and better and there is still no feeling of bigger oumph, something is entirely off. Overall I feel that the game has gone extremely flat the last few builds with all the skill level nerfs meta level refactoring and suit hp squashing, just overall its not been entirely helpful. It just feels if you where to give me a character with maxed out SP and lots of isk I still wouldn't be able to enjoy, notice the difference, and probably just go back to using militia suits. Less load lag that way. Either way I am not feeling it, playing dust 514 these days feels like pulling teeth. So I break I shall take. TL;DR** I feel this game has gotten to the point that I feel there is no difference between a militia suit with only a gun on it vs a full proto suit with proto modules and max SP, ergo no need to progress. IE ISK SP and Metalevel has no meaning anymore.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:06:00 - [2] - Quote You're not stoked about the tournament starting this weekend, Iron? Everyone else is buzzing about it.
Sponge- Bob 40	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:09:00 - [3] - Quote Classic EVE THREAD I play more DUST then anyone else, so I should be 10x stronger then a new player. Its a FPS... Its called BALANCE DEAL WITH IT!
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:10:00 - [4] - Quote Wow, literally could not have said it better myself. I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable. When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_<
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:11:00 - [5] - Quote Sponge- Bob wrote: Classic EVE THREAD I play more DUST then anyone else, so I should be 10x stronger then a new player. Its a FPS... Its called BALANCE DEAL WITH IT! Dude... I am the guy running around with militia gear with very few skill points killing players who now have about 20x more skill points than me now. What I am trying to say is that I can go out in a suit nekkid and armed with nothing but a gun and probably kill everyone I ran across cept a tank. You can't do that in eve online.
Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 52	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:11:00 - [6] - Quote The fact is, when you use weapons of higher skill level they're not supposed to feel like you are Dominant over someone else because you've played longer. If someone has a Militia while you're running with a Duvolle Proto Assault Rifle its gonna go to whom has the most experience with the weapons and the necessary skill to make low end weapons work for them. The way CCP seems to be planning this is that even if you've played longer, you shouldn't have a overly huge edge over someone whom is a fresh clone. That doesn't mean that the weapons can't be stronger than the last, it just means that if you want that slight edge over someone, then go for it. No one ain't stopping you but its your loss if you die with something you can't afford to loose. As the old saying goes, Its not the weapon that kills people, its those who are handing the weapon. Otherwise, it would be just be another one of those games where if you played longer, you are immediately better than a new person. Edit: But in honesty, it seems that the overall "End Game" factor seems to be coming a bit too fast, which is what you are probably emphasizing over. As it stands now, the factor of "End game" seems to be far too little in a simple statement. And as expensive as these end game items are, they show no real worth if they can be beaten so easily from a new player.
Sponge- Bob 40	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:11:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Wow, literally could not have said it better myself. I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable. When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_< ITS IS PEOPLE LIKE THAT WILL KILL THIS GAME
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:14:00 - [8] - Quote Specter RND wrote: The fact is, when you use weapons of higher skill level they're not supposed to feel like you are Dominant over someone else because you've played longer. If someone has a Militia while you're running with a Duvolle Proto Assault Rifle its gonna go to whom has the most experience with the weapons and the necessary skill to make low end weapons work for them. The way CCP seems to be planning this is that even if you've played longer, you shouldn't have a overly huge edge over someone whom is a fresh clone. That doesn't mean that the weapons can't be stronger than the last, it just means that if you want that slight edge over someone, then go for it. No one ain't stopping you but its your loss if you die with something you can't afford to loose. As the old saying goes, Its not the weapon that kills people, its those who are handing the weapon. Otherwise, it would be just be another one of those games where if you played longer, you are immediately better than a new person. While I agree with most of the statement it just feels that stuff I am putting onto the suits has nearly no effect. Why put on armor plates? why shield extenders. You will answer more HP, and I answer back does the 100 more HP really matter?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:17:00 - [9] - Quote SoLJae wrote: You're not stoked about the tournament starting this weekend, Iron? Everyone else is buzzing about it. what tournament?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:21:00 - [10] - Quote Sponge- Bob wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Wow, literally could not have said it better myself. I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable. When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_< ITS IS PEOPLE LIKE THAT WILL KILL THIS GAME ^ This one needs to train reading comprehension to lvl 1

Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 52	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:21:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Specter RND wrote: The fact is, when you use weapons of higher skill level they're not supposed to feel like you are Dominant over someone else because you've played longer. If someone has a Militia while you're running with a Duvolle Proto Assault Rifle its gonna go to whom has the most experience with the weapons and the necessary skill to make low end weapons work for them. The way CCP seems to be planning this is that even if you've played longer, you shouldn't have a overly huge edge over someone whom is a fresh clone. That doesn't mean that the weapons can't be stronger than the last, it just means that if you want that slight edge over someone, then go for it. No one ain't stopping you but its your loss if you die with something you can't afford to loose. As the old saying goes, Its not the weapon that kills people, its those who are handing the weapon. Otherwise, it would be just be another one of those games where if you played longer, you are immediately better than a new person. While I agree with most of the statement it just feels that stuff I am putting onto the suits has nearly no effect. Why put on armor plates? why shield extenders. You will answer more HP, and I answer back does the 100 more HP really matter? From what you're saying, I agree with completely. It seems like as if the little additions around in the games fundamentals seem to be too little in an overall statement. But, as I said earlier, they're only trying to keep things in balance for everyone to have fun playing while being serious about it at the same time. While, I too, find the overall usefulness of even going out and getting enhanced everything's in the marketplace being quite low, they still want to keep things in balance for a new player. Although, I do want some kind of significant buff over things for being a long time player for Dust514, its really up to CCP to decide such factors as this.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 320	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:28:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Specter RND wrote: The fact is, when you use weapons of higher skill level they're not supposed to feel like you are Dominant over someone else because you've played longer. If someone has a Militia while you're running with a Duvolle Proto Assault Rifle its gonna go to whom has the most experience with the weapons and the necessary skill to make low end weapons work for them. The way CCP seems to be planning this is that even if you've played longer, you shouldn't have a overly huge edge over someone whom is a fresh clone. That doesn't mean that the weapons can't be stronger than the last, it just means that if you want that slight edge over someone, then go for it. No one ain't stopping you but its your loss if you die with something you can't afford to loose. As the old saying goes, Its not the weapon that kills people, its those who are handing the weapon. Otherwise, it would be just be another one of those games where if you played longer, you are immediately better than a new person. While I agree with most of the statement it just feels that stuff I am putting onto the suits has nearly no effect. Why put on armor plates? why shield extenders. You will answer more HP, and I answer back does the 100 more HP really matter? I'm a heavy so i would say no. But going from regular HMG to broadside HMG (Prototype) and stacking 2 complex damage mods, that is a 50% damage increase and a clear noticeable difference between the two.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:28:00 - [13] - Quote I think one solution would be to increase the overall effect of meta level 0 items and shift all the other modules in line with it near current scale. That way when you slap on an armor plate you actually feel its effects. Vehicles I think are the only ones that don't suffer from this 'flat' effect. I have seen various LAVs that people have poured much more skill points into, a well fitted one will out survive a single stock of the my militia launcher which is also the only non flat weapon in the entire game where going between meta-levels changes the hell of a world of the difference in performance and its one of the few odd balls in the game that do so.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:30:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sponge- Bob wrote: Classic EVE THREAD I play more DUST then anyone else, so I should be 10x stronger then a new player. Its a FPS... Its called BALANCE DEAL WITH IT! Dude... I am the guy running around with militia gear with very few skill points killing players who now have about 20x more skill points than me now. What I am trying to say is that I can go out in a suit nekkid and armed with nothing but a gun and probably kill everyone I ran across cept a tank. You can't do that in eve online. 20x more ? Not possible in Dust at the moment. And is it that bad ? No. Would you rather have no chance just because you have no gear ? I know i feel a lot of difference between having a damager or not having one. I feel a difference between having a militia suit or my A-series fitted with two complex shield extender. I feel the difference between my low grade grenade and my brand new flux grenade. Yet and FORTUNATELY i can still get killed by militia guy running around the battlefield ! => Also, you're talking about minor change ? but did you do some math ? => 30 HP damage for militia rifle without skill => 30 HP damage militia AR + 10 % (weaponry V) + 10% (assault rifle op lvl2) => 36 = basic duvolle. => 36 HP duvolle + 10% + 10% (same) + 10% damage through better suit. => 47 HP per bullet Add to this difference in damage, the difference in HP of the suit you use. Militia suit Assaut-A serie suit. Same base HP + 2 shield extender => 122 more HP. Now, tell me there's no difference between a guy doing 47 HP per bullet on 750 ROF weapons with 122 HP more than the guy with same skills and militia rifle and suit and i'd say you're a fool. it's not about one "minor" improvement, it's about "minor" ImprovementS. And it comes down to who is good enough to overcome those difference and who's good enough to use them wisely and efficiently.
Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 52	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:31:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think one solution would be to increase the overall effect of meta level 0 items and shift all the other modules in line with it near current scale. That way when you slap on an armor plate you actually feel its effects. Vehicles I think are the only ones that don't suffer from this 'flat' effect. I have seen various LAVs that people have poured much more skill points into, a well fitted one will out survive a single stock of the my militia launcher which is also the only non flat weapon in the entire game where going between meta-levels changes the hell of a world of the difference in performance and its one of the few odd balls in the game that do so. So what you mean is, buff ALL of the core dynamics by a core principle multiplier of "x" to actually feel some sort of difference while excluding some "non-flat" items? Sounds like a good idea to me but might cause problems.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:33:00 - [16] - Quote KryptixX wrote: But going from regular HMG to broadside HMG (Prototype) and stacking 2 complex damage mods, that is a 50% damage increase and a clear noticeable difference between the two. The thing is the HMG imo is overkill when I trigger down on someone and after some self measurements my average kill per stock is about the same between the Proto and regular.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:35:00 - [17] - Quote Specter RND wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think one solution would be to increase the overall effect of meta level 0 items and shift all the other modules in line with it near current scale. That way when you slap on an armor plate you actually feel its effects. Vehicles I think are the only ones that don't suffer from this 'flat' effect. I have seen various LAVs that people have poured much more skill points into, a well fitted one will out survive a single stock of the my militia launcher which is also the only non flat weapon in the entire game where going between meta-levels changes the hell of a world of the difference in performance and its one of the few odd balls in the game that do so. So what you mean is, buff ALL of the core dynamics by a core principle multiplier of "x" to actually feel some sort of difference while excluding some "non-flat" items? Sounds like a good idea to me but might cause problems. It might, but I want to feel the difference between a nekkid suit and a suit with something slapped on it on both self and the things Im shooting. Like if i shot a heavy suit with armor plate I want to feel that instead of dropping him with one clip from my militia AR. This would at least encourage going out and getting SP to able use items.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 320	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote It's not so much CQC, because yeah any HMG will just chop someone up. but from medium-longer range is where i notice the difference.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:44:00 - [19] - Quote Difficult situation... I liked it the first few days of precursor where we were restricted by suit lvl. I.E. you can't use advanced suits in a standard/militia level battle. Sandbox be damned. Some cat will only poop in the sandbox. Quite a few of us just stayed in the proto server. Others kept in the militia. It WORKED :D Things are far too flat in comparison to Replication. That's for certain.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:46:00 - [20] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sponge- Bob wrote: Classic EVE THREAD I play more DUST then anyone else, so I should be 10x stronger then a new player. Its a FPS... Its called BALANCE DEAL WITH IT! Dude... I am the guy running around with militia gear with very few skill points killing players who now have about 20x more skill points than me now. What I am trying to say is that I can go out in a suit nekkid and armed with nothing but a gun and probably kill everyone I ran across cept a tank. You can't do that in eve online. 20x more ? Not possible in Dust at the moment. And is it that bad ? No. Would you rather have no chance just because you have no gear ? I know i feel a lot of difference between having a damager or not having one. I feel a difference between having a militia suit or my A-series fitted with two complex shield extender. I feel the difference between my low grade grenade and my brand new flux grenade. Yet and FORTUNATELY i can still get killed by militia guy running around the battlefield ! => Also, you're talking about minor change ? but did you do some math ? => 30 HP damage for militia rifle without skill => 30 HP damage militia AR + 10 % (weaponry V) + 10% (assault rifle op lvl2) => 36 = basic duvolle. => 36 HP duvolle + 10% + 10% (same) + 10% damage through better suit. => 47 HP per bullet Add to this difference in damage, the difference in HP of the suit you use. Militia suit Assaut-A serie suit. Same base HP + 2 shield extender => 122 more HP. Now, tell me there's no difference between a guy doing 47 HP per bullet on 750 ROF weapons with 122 HP more than the guy with same skills and militia rifle and suit and i'd say you're a fool. it's not about one "minor" improvement, it's about "minor" ImprovementS. And it comes down to who is good enough to overcome those difference and who's good enough to use them wisely and efficiently. You only need 10 million sp to have 20x more effective over one of my characters. Its quite possible at this moment. I rather get reminded that running out there without some sort of tank is a bad idea. I would like to get reminded that stacking too much of one module is also a bad idea, I would like to get reminded that there is such thing as a bad fit instead of running out in the open nekkid. Also you have no idea how much hate mail my noob alt gets, people get pissed when they get slaughtered by some one in militia only. 122 more hp drops in what? 0.5 seconds at most? oh I know 0.001 of a tank shell or a grenade my most common killers.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:47:00 - [21] - Quote KryptixX wrote: It's not so much CQC, because yeah any HMG will just chop someone up. but from medium-longer range is where i notice the difference. Yeah I mostly use the HMG as a shotgun...
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:49:00 - [22] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Difficult situation... I liked it the first few days of precursor where we were restricted by suit lvl. I.E. you can't use advanced suits in a standard/militia level battle. Sandbox be damned. Some cat will only poop in the sandbox. Quite a few of us just stayed in the proto server. Others kept in the militia. It WORKED :D Things are far too flat in comparison to Replication. That's for certain. I know just there needs to be something... it took me this entire build to put my finger on why my will to play has been waning and I think its this issue alone. because if you fix all the bugs fix the major complaints add a few more features and the sort and I honestly think that fixes those aforementioned issues will not make me continue to play this game. Not even in the long run.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.22 14:56:00 - [23] - Quote So what i got from it is that milita is on the same level as proto stuff So the milita suit is the same as proto suit on shield and armor basics excluding skills but the only diff is number of slots but it seems he want it like it was back in the day where each suit had a bit more shield/armor aswell as slots Bit of a meh thread tbh
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:01:00 - [24] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: So what i got from it is that milita is on the same level as proto stuff So the milita suit is the same as proto suit on shield and armor basics excluding skills but the only diff is number of slots but it seems he want it like it was back in the day where each suit had a bit more shield/armor aswell as slots Bit of a meh thread tbh No just I don't feel the effects of having more slots being useful because I feel that the modules themselves are non-noncontributing to my overall soldier environment. Like I said earlier its a bit difficult for me to place a finger on the exact issue.
S Park Finner BetaMax. 89	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:02:00 - [25] - Quote One difference between EVE and DUST 514 is that in EVE you can, to a certain extent, pick your battles. As a result, the load-outs and skills in EVE can make a difference and the players can choose to take on a tough battle or to avoid it. In DUST 514 that's not possible. There are no enforced skill caps (or agreed upon skill measurements) for battles. Players get thrown into battles and get eaten alive or stuck with players that don't challenge them. The "flatness" the OP points out may be a response on CCP's part to a failing mechanism for matching skills in battles. I believe that CCP should try out... Publish, for each player, a skill level metric based in part on the equipment they are allowed to load-out. At least in the beta make the components of the skill metric known to players so it can be freely discussed. Use that metric as a cap for battles Let players choose the level battle they are willing to enter Make skills and load-outs have real impact on performance in the game
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:07:00 - [26] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Wow, literally could not have said it better myself. I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable. When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_< u do notice the difference in suit upgrades from previous tier if u fitted ur dropsuit properly ppl just want to be demigods small advantage > demigod status CCP has it right with the suit nerf Gear should only provide a decent/small advantage not make it so that an avg player can just sponge 5x as much shots as a new skilled fps player and win gunfights cuz of it
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:09:00 - [27] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Wow, literally could not have said it better myself. I for one think it really started at the nerf to suit HP. They should be using bigger numbers, not smaller. Things need to scale up a lot faster than they are right now, to keep the game constantly moving. Once they have their matchmaking system figured out, gear differences will become much less notable. When I upgrade my suit, I want to feel like I actually upgraded my suit >_< u do notice the difference in suit upgrades from previous tier if u fitted ur dropsuit properly ppl just want to be demigods small advantage > demigod status CCP has it right with the suit nerf Gear should only provide a decent/small advantage not make it so that an avg player can just sponge 5x as much shots as a new skilled fps player and win gunfights cuz of it I do not mind the HP squashing, CCP said they did it to shift focus to the modules. The problem with modules which I am declaring non-contributive. Also to that note, militia gear is OP and I am saying this as a heavy user of the damn things.
Jariel Manton SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 210	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:11:00 - [28] - Quote I was orgianlly going to say something like o another one of those Dust is going to die threads but after reading the OP you make a good point. I agree that There is very very little difference achieved in the amount of time spent for skilling. The problem with this isnt that nothing changes its that your expenses skyrocket. Lets forget for a second that many players now have a huge sum of money to play with. Right now the only way to get isk is to play matches and if your running semi upgraded gear you may only be able to die less than 5 times to come out ahead. This wont matter to me when isk transfer is available, pve is introduced, an open market where our salvage can be sold and things like this are there to suppliment my income. TLDR You make a good point and i agree but only for now because i hate the isk system as it is and it will be fixed when other income options come into play.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:20:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: So what i got from it is that milita is on the same level as proto stuff So the milita suit is the same as proto suit on shield and armor basics excluding skills but the only diff is number of slots but it seems he want it like it was back in the day where each suit had a bit more shield/armor aswell as slots Bit of a meh thread tbh No just I don't feel the effects of having more slots being useful because I feel that the modules themselves are non-noncontributing to my overall soldier environment. Like I said earlier its a bit difficult for me to place a finger on the exact issue. Only because the suits are the same then you have to fit out your suit proper 2 builds ago on that 1 map we only got to play on with SP/ISK everywhere that protosuit and the gear i had = beast mode because i had so much health to begin with and my mods i had improved that and i could survive a hell of alot Now the weapons seem to kill faster but thats because each suit is kinda the same but having the right mods makes a difference But the major diff is proto doesnt = i win mode now
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.10.22 15:25:00 - [30] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dude... I am the guy running around with militia gear with very few skill points killing players who now have about 20x more skill points than me now. What I am trying to say is that I can go out in a suit nekkid and armed with nothing but a gun and probably kill everyone I ran across cept a tank. You can't do that in eve online. That... probably has nothing to do with weapon balance, or the game being "flat"... But I do agree with your OP, to a degree. There really should be a difference between gear levels, with a possible maximum being Tech-2 level. The real noob protection absolutely has to be the system security status, not cubicle-grade homogenization. However, the real trick there is to figure out how the security level affects gameplay. On a basic level, you shouldn't be able to launch a DUST battalion in hi-sec unless you wardec the target corp. How it plays to in-match balance is difficult for a sandbox universe. The best bet for fixing that? an "ISK budget" with maximums set inverse to the security status. You could either launch 4 guys in a couple proto suits, or send down a massive force of militia people. Should cover the bases, while allowing for good sandboxing.



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