you dont understand the core of the issue. the hit detection issue was solved. the speed changes were done additionally. scouts suits can be hit almost as easy as heavy suits now which makes scout suit obsolete.

if you compare the speed "advantage" of the scout suit with the assault suit (which currently is the most common) you will see that the speed difference is small when sprinting/running next to each other BUT the difference in shields, armor and fittings on the other hand is HUGE. an assault suit can easily be fit for speed and still be more durable than the scout suit.

having lower strafe speed is fine but the speed adavantage of scout suits is it too low for the drawbacks.

Kingbabar, like many of us before, you're pointing at the real issue.

1) Is the strafe nerf what allowed CCP to fix the hit detection in wich case it would make sense as it was the #1 issue everyone complained about. Yet we could interrogate ourselves on how in hell they couldnt find any solution to that matter other than killing straffing speed

2) On the other hand, if Hit detection was solved without needing any movement speed modification, then why the sudden change of dynamic in the game ? Why not fix HD, test with the precursor speed settings and see how people feel ?

IF, and i insist on the IF, hit detection was solved independantly, straf nerf wasnt needed. As chaotic quick left-right straffing in CQC would have most likely mean death now. And it would have maintain the dodging abilities and the tracking target skill needed intact.

Unfortunately, we can't now for sure between 1) and 2). Still, i sure pray for a return to precursor straffing and movement speed so i can finally see the specificity of the suits again on that matter.

Even with higher sprint speed a scout would be insane to take on a hmg. CCP made it very very clear that if a scout gets close to a hvy it should be game on. This is not the case and your fix wont make this so.

Still + 1 because this is a very important topic and your right about playstyles.

The side to side strafing was stupid yes but now we dont even have circle strafing. Why not give it back its high strafe speed but make it a little slower to change back and strafe the other way?

TBH I dont really know all I know is its ruined the game for alot of peeps and nowdays camping will get you everywhere.

Even with higher sprint speed a scout would be insane to take on a hmg. CCP made it very very clear that if a scout gets close to a hvy it should be game on. This is not the case and your fix wont make this so.

Still + 1 because this is a very important topic and your right about playstyles.

The side to side strafing was stupid yes but now we dont even have circle strafing. Why not give it back its high strafe speed but make it a little slower to change back and strafe the other way?

TBH I dont really know all I know is its ruined the game for alot of peeps and nowdays camping will get you everywhere.

Even with higher sprint speed a scout would be insane to take on a hmg. CCP made it very very clear that if a scout gets close to a hvy it should be game on. This is not the case and your fix wont make this so.

Still + 1 because this is a very important topic and your right about playstyles.

The side to side strafing was stupid yes but now we dont even have circle strafing. Why not give it back its high strafe speed but make it a little slower to change back and strafe the other way?

TBH I dont really know all I know is its ruined the game for alot of peeps and nowdays camping will get you everywhere.

I'm with you dude yet camping isnt that much present at the moment. I still manage to go forward objectives without being corner-waited each time. But, there's situations now where you have absolutely no chance to have any impact on the result when you had it before in precursor. It's not especially regarding killing a guy as much as it is about finding cover or exhausting a dude's ammo before having a chance to counter attack. And THAT is bothering me. big time.

As I see it, the reduced strafing speed is CCP's sollution to the bad hit detection issue.[/b]

Scouts were meant to take on heavys. It should take a rediculously long time if 1v1 but with circle strafing a shotgun scout or smg scout should win if they close without getting killed. Scouts need strafe boost back and hvys need a health boost back. Read some of the early posts from devs. This is how the game was intended..

Lol well I would say I'm right behind you on that one but thats not really true I would be waaaay infront running like a little pansy....from almost everything all the time.


Hvy hmg is just insane now and its lost its only predator the CQB scout.

Stopped playing my hmg char and deleted it because I should be working on my poor gungame skills not rofl stomping eveything.

I'd like to get some actual feedback on my idea.

Under the assumtion that: Low speed = proper hit detection.

Wouldn't that make the removal or reduction of "getting slowed down even further by enemy fire" be the right course of action to minimize the annoyance and restoring at least a little of the movement game?

I'd like to get some actual feedback on my idea.

Under the assumtion that: Low speed = proper hit detection.

Wouldn't that make the removal or reduction of "getting slowed down even further by enemy fire" be the right course of action to minimize the annoyance and restoring at least a little of the movement game?

Now its about tactical awareness of where the enemy is and where they are looking at for a proper avenue of attack versus lasts build of who cares how many are in front of me and my NEO bullet dodge moves.

I much prefer this build where when I see a heavy/HMG combo its no longer ohhh! look at the free kill as now the CQC defense move is RUN!! away! from the heavy.

Scouts were meant to take on heavys. It should take a rediculously long time if 1v1 but with circle strafing a shotgun scout or smg scout should win if they close without getting killed. Scouts need strafe boost back and hvys need a health boost back. Read some of the early posts from devs. This is how the game was intended..

Nah since it invalidates leveling up sharpshooter skills.
And just as early DEV posts about EVE do not equal EVE in its present state such is the expected state of Dust.
Its an evolving enterprise and not a set in stone roadmap.
Whats missing are absent game balance components such as a simple glue trap deployable only by scouts to trap enemy soldiers.

The fundamental assumption here is that the improvements to hit detection are related to the strafe speed changes. This assumption is being made because both changes were released at the same time. Sloppy experimental design CCP, tich tich =P

I'm thinking this assumption is incorrect.

-CCP stated that this build would have a new hit detection system. Taking this at face value tells us at the very least that we do not have the old hit detection system with slower strafe.

-There's more than one way to get high tangential velocity(technically angular velocity is the issue, but you know what i mean) that would give a gimped hit detection system trouble. A Merc or LAV moving at right angles to the shooter would also generate a hit detection issue. But we don't have to lead shots in this build, which supports the theory that the hit detection system has been fundamentally changed. I know we would normally think of having to lead targets a lag issue, but whatever the case things are different this build and we're still on the same hardware so that implies it's a code change.

It would be nice to get some confirmation fron the Devs on this one so we can put this topic to rest and discuss the remaining issues more clearly.

simple then keep the new HD and turn strafe back to how it was. who complained about strafe speed anyway why change it(exept for scout unhittable bug and anyway why change the strafe speed for all classes)? not going to happen because there's way too much coincidence that they enabled a HD fix and a strafe speed reduce in one patch. anyway it's their game if they are happy with making the gameplay not enjoyable to fix something hoping the players won't notice that's up to them.

a 25% player count drop says it all.

nope, we dont need circle dance parties like in the worst shooter that exists, aka halo the fps for kids.

slower strafe is fine as long as the speed is balanced across all classes but it currently is not, it makes no sense that the scout is suddenly a brick like the heavy.

Why should you be able to go Matrix in a first person shooter.You should not be able to jump over me & run in circles shooting from the hip spraying your gun like this is an arcade game.Shooting from hip isn't skill based but gear based.You have better gun of course your going to win.Precursor was Socom 2 mixed in with Halo(Bad combination).Scouts should not be in a guy's face going 1v1 with a Heavy or Assault.How was the last build skill based with Halo/Superhero jumping scouts with shotguns everywhere fun?This is not supposed to be an arcade shooter like CoD or Halo.

How about a reduction or even a complete removal of the character slow down when hit? I'm not 100% on this one but i think it will do the trick. Its not so much the lowered speed that is annoying, making it very easy to initially hit targets, but the slow down of movement makes it even easier to keep hitting a target which doesn't really have any alternative but to either die or more or less stay close to cover all the time, making the game a boring camp fest for many players.
[/b]

Now its about tactical awareness of where the enemy is and where they are looking at for a proper avenue of attack versus lasts build of who cares how many are in front of me and my NEO bullet dodge moves.

I much prefer this build where when I see a heavy/HMG combo its no longer ohhh! look at the free kill as now the CQC defense move is RUN!! away! from the heavy.

Again, this thread was supposed to be about loosing the "go into slomo mode when hit" issue. I think it would solve a lot.

And I do agree, this build is definately the most boring. I can't really go anywhere without facing 3-5 people just waiting for someone to pop up in whatever area of the map they control. Its stagnant and boring. Take away my ability to move about and engage several enemies simultaneously and you're left with either blob or trench warefare, I need action and adrenaline, not the pot shot taking position game its become.

As I see it, the reduced strafing speed is CCP's sollution to the bad hit detection issue. Even though I would prefer playing with the last builds' strafing speed, its fairly obvious that scout suit, especially when used in an adventageous manner (the super fast side to side straifing some people have used while just spraying wildly with an smg or even shotgun), needed a huge nerf in this regard. I've even tried this for a few games myself when I equipped a scout suit and used a normal AR instead of a tactical AR/assault combo that I normally use. Its quite riddicilous when I can stand right infront of a heavy and wildly emty two clips in his general direction, without even loosing half my shields. Something had to be done.

I theorize that the (bad) core mechanics combined with general internet latency couldn't cope with such high speeds and consequently reducing the speed is the only way they've been able to adress the hit detection issue that have troubled this beta since launch. I belive it is so due to the fact that CCP haven't really adressed this issue publicly, and they should have, its been several months and this is a much more important issue than adding another gun or whatnot.

Even though I'm one of those wannabe elite run and gun kind of players who have on several occations cried out over this on these forums, I'm beginning to realize that this is probably what we'll end up with. So what to do? Is there a sollutions that will make both the wannabe gang and the eve noobs satisfied?

How about a reduction or even a complete removal of the character slow down when hit? I'm not 100% on this one but i think it will do the trick. Its not so much the lowered speed that is annoying, making it very easy to initially hit targets, but the slow down of movement makes it even easier to keep hitting a target which doesn't really have any alternative but to either die or more or less stay close to cover all the time, making the game a boring camp fest for many players.

This will make hitting a moving target harder, without raising the strafe speed to a point were bad hit detection becomes an issue again. It will help the players that are good at moving about, since they won't be slowed down to a crawl by the first bullets and mowed down directly after. This will also be "fair" to less skilled players, the movement rate is slow, as it is now, but they won't get additional help like it is now, were hitting a target makes them almost stop, making finishing the job super easy.

Its not the reduced strafe speed thats really the problem, its the combination of low strafe speed and lowered charcacter movement when hit that makes it very unpopular with experienced FPS players.

WHY does everyone assume that lowering the strafe speed was only done to fix hit detection, and that by extension that that was the sum total of their solution?

Its crap like this that makes me stay away from the forums on some of the other games I test. The community decides something is true and starts ranting about it to the exception of all possible evidence to the contrary. I'm going to be damn glad when everyone is back at the office so we can get clarification in IRC that these "observations" are garbage.

Apparently, the lowered speed movement is only linked to the new infantry physic model. Wich i find pretty bad btw... Players bumping, wall of glass, chaotic movements on relief area etc...

And regarding taking out the speed decrease when hit, i'd rather get straffing back to a decent level than this.
And once more, saying that it is only in this build that there's a point in playing smart, using cover or adapting fit to situations just amazes me.....

WHY does everyone assume that lowering the strafe speed was only done to fix hit detection, and that by extension that that was the sum total of their solution?

Its crap like this that makes me stay away from the forums on some of the other games I test. The community decides something is true and starts ranting about it to the exception of all possible evidence to the contrary. I'm going to be damn glad when everyone is back at the office so we can get clarification in IRC that these "observations" are garbage.

For all the statements on cover, I now have one thing to say:
What good is cover when your strafe speed is too low to let you get into cover before you die?

In that case, CCP has a big communication issue. So its pure conicidence that the nerfed straifing speeds and "improved hit detection" came simultaniously? That makes me wonder why they changed the straifing speeds in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the speed to begin with. I can't recall anyone complaining about it. Sure, many, myself included, did grief a lot about the scout suits being OP, but not for their speed, only because the game wasn't quick enough to follow making them almost unkillable in CQC.

CCP can stack as much glitter as they want, without a rigid fundation this house of cards might just topple in on itself.

For all the statements on cover, I now have one thing to say:
What good is cover when your strafe speed is too low to let you get into cover before you die?

For all the statements on cover, I now have one thing to say:
What good is cover when your strafe speed is too low to let you get into cover before you die?

So if you play with a Controller, see the two joysticks on it? Yes that's right, the left one lets you move forward and strafe but if you look on the right side, this one lets you TURN! Maybe, if you decided to use this impressive new turn feature you might be able to turn to the side and sprint towards cover, turn back and suppress the enemy with lots of bullets!

Hope this helps!

Seriously?

Sir? Sir... I'm gonna have to ask you to shut up.

Turning in this game is probably the only thing slower than strafing. Everyone controls like Robobrain from Fallout 3.

If you are OK with moving around like a 1960's stylized automaton with track wheels and slinky arms, then you may need to strike your PS3 several times sharply with a ball peen hammer until you just stop it already with that particular feel.

200+ thread aboout dancing ? Exagerating much ?
Also, those were threads with 3-4 whiners in it.

This strafe nerf mobilized a lot more complaints and well more explained, no doubt about that.

I'd really like to know CCP's vision for combat. One trailer shows a bunch of heavies advancing slowly in the open guns blazing, another shows a squad sprinting and power sliding behind cover.

Do the trailer makers and the Devs even talk, or are they completely different groups?

What feel are they striving for?

How are we to judge this thing?

We have at least two different player camps here and neither knows what CCP is going for because they haven't clearly stated it.

I would love to read a Dev blog on this subject.