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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 10:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As I see it, the reduced strafing speed is CCP's sollution to the bad hit detection issue. Even though I would prefer playing with the last builds' strafing speed, its fairly obvious that scout suit, especially when used in an adventageous manner (the super fast side to side straifing some people have used while just spraying wildly with an smg or even shotgun), needed a huge nerf in this regard. I've even tried this for a few games myself when I equipped a scout suit and used a normal AR instead of a tactical AR/assault combo that I normally use. Its quite riddicilous when I can stand right infront of a heavy and wildly emty two clips in his general direction, without even loosing half my shields. Something had to be done.
I theorize that the (bad) core mechanics combined with general internet latency couldn't cope with such high speeds and consequently reducing the speed is the only way they've been able to adress the hit detection issue that have troubled this beta since launch. I belive it is so due to the fact that CCP haven't really adressed this issue publicly, and they should have, its been several months and this is a much more important issue than adding another gun or whatnot.
Even though I'm one of those wannabe elite run and gun kind of players who have on several occations cried out over this on these forums, I'm beginning to realize that this is probably what we'll end up with. So what to do? Is there a sollutions that will make both the wannabe gang and the eve noobs satisfied?
How about a reduction or even a complete removal of the character slow down when hit? I'm not 100% on this one but i think it will do the trick. Its not so much the lowered speed that is annoying, making it very easy to initially hit targets, but the slow down of movement makes it even easier to keep hitting a target which doesn't really have any alternative but to either die or more or less stay close to cover all the time, making the game a boring camp fest for many players.
This will make hitting a moving target harder, without raising the strafe speed to a point were bad hit detection becomes an issue again. It will help the players that are good at moving about, since they won't be slowed down to a crawl by the first bullets and mowed down directly after. This will also be "fair" to less skilled players, the movement rate is slow, as it is now, but they won't get additional help like it is now, were hitting a target makes them almost stop, making finishing the job super easy.
Its not the reduced strafe speed thats really the problem, its the combination of low strafe speed and lowered charcacter movement when hit that makes it very unpopular with experienced FPS players. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 11:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:you dont understand the core of the issue. the hit detection issue was solved. the speed changes were done additionally. scouts suits can be hit almost as easy as heavy suits now which makes scout suit obsolete.
if you compare the speed "advantage" of the scout suit with the assault suit (which currently is the most common) you will see that the speed difference is small when sprinting/running next to each other BUT the difference in shields, armor and fittings on the other hand is HUGE. an assault suit can easily be fit for speed and still be more durable than the scout suit.
having lower strafe speed is fine but the speed adavantage of scout suits is it too low for the drawbacks.
No in this regard its you who don't comprehend the issue. This isn't solely about scout suits, that was a mere example of the extreme. And what do you mean that the hit detection issues was solved prior to the lowered speed? Thats just plain wrong. If we can call this build "the build that fixed of the hit detection issue", it came simultaneously with the movement nerf, or as I would put it; "because of the movement nerf".
I play AR/Assault and I'm very dissapointed of the development since my skill as a FPS player in regards to "being able to cirkle strafe around, dodge and generally move smartly while still keeping my fire hitting my enemy" is almost completely removed in this build. Its more a matter of who sees who first and who's got the best equipment. I can accept the lowered strafe speed in itself, but with the slowing down of my movement in addition, it becomes useless to move about and you're stuck with a cover to cover kind of gameplay that many, many people finds quite boring.
Thats the issue. The game in its current state caters too much to one kind of playstyle which is just silly. My suggestion might be a way to cater to both, which should be the ultimate goal. Agreed? |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 12:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote:Even with higher sprint speed a scout would be insane to take on a hmg. CCP made it very very clear that if a scout gets close to a hvy it should be game on. This is not the case and your fix wont make this so. Still + 1 because this is a very important topic and your right about playstyles. The side to side strafing was stupid yes but now we dont even have circle strafing. Why not give it back its high strafe speed but make it a little slower to change back and strafe the other way?TBH I dont really know all I know is its ruined the game for alot of peeps and nowdays camping will get you everywhere.
A very good point indeed. Why didn't i think of that? |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 12:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd like to get some actual feedback on my idea.
Under the assumtion that: Low speed = proper hit detection.
Wouldn't that make the removal or reduction of "getting slowed down even further by enemy fire" be the right course of action to minimize the annoyance and restoring at least a little of the movement game? |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 06:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Again, this thread was supposed to be about loosing the "go into slomo mode when hit" issue. I think it would solve a lot.
And I do agree, this build is definately the most boring. I can't really go anywhere without facing 3-5 people just waiting for someone to pop up in whatever area of the map they control. Its stagnant and boring. Take away my ability to move about and engage several enemies simultaneously and you're left with either blob or trench warefare, I need action and adrenaline, not the pot shot taking position game its become. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:KingBabar wrote:As I see it, the reduced strafing speed is CCP's sollution to the bad hit detection issue. Even though I would prefer playing with the last builds' strafing speed, its fairly obvious that scout suit, especially when used in an adventageous manner (the super fast side to side straifing some people have used while just spraying wildly with an smg or even shotgun), needed a huge nerf in this regard. I've even tried this for a few games myself when I equipped a scout suit and used a normal AR instead of a tactical AR/assault combo that I normally use. Its quite riddicilous when I can stand right infront of a heavy and wildly emty two clips in his general direction, without even loosing half my shields. Something had to be done.
I theorize that the (bad) core mechanics combined with general internet latency couldn't cope with such high speeds and consequently reducing the speed is the only way they've been able to adress the hit detection issue that have troubled this beta since launch. I belive it is so due to the fact that CCP haven't really adressed this issue publicly, and they should have, its been several months and this is a much more important issue than adding another gun or whatnot.
Even though I'm one of those wannabe elite run and gun kind of players who have on several occations cried out over this on these forums, I'm beginning to realize that this is probably what we'll end up with. So what to do? Is there a sollutions that will make both the wannabe gang and the eve noobs satisfied?
How about a reduction or even a complete removal of the character slow down when hit? I'm not 100% on this one but i think it will do the trick. Its not so much the lowered speed that is annoying, making it very easy to initially hit targets, but the slow down of movement makes it even easier to keep hitting a target which doesn't really have any alternative but to either die or more or less stay close to cover all the time, making the game a boring camp fest for many players.
This will make hitting a moving target harder, without raising the strafe speed to a point were bad hit detection becomes an issue again. It will help the players that are good at moving about, since they won't be slowed down to a crawl by the first bullets and mowed down directly after. This will also be "fair" to less skilled players, the movement rate is slow, as it is now, but they won't get additional help like it is now, were hitting a target makes them almost stop, making finishing the job super easy.
Its not the reduced strafe speed thats really the problem, its the combination of low strafe speed and lowered charcacter movement when hit that makes it very unpopular with experienced FPS players. WHY does everyone assume that lowering the strafe speed was only done to fix hit detection, and that by extension that that was the sum total of their solution? Its crap like this that makes me stay away from the forums on some of the other games I test. The community decides something is true and starts ranting about it to the exception of all possible evidence to the contrary. I'm going to be damn glad when everyone is back at the office so we can get clarification in IRC that these "observations" are garbage.
In that case, CCP has a big communication issue. So its pure conicidence that the nerfed straifing speeds and "improved hit detection" came simultaniously? That makes me wonder why they changed the straifing speeds in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the speed to begin with. I can't recall anyone complaining about it. Sure, many, myself included, did grief a lot about the scout suits being OP, but not for their speed, only because the game wasn't quick enough to follow making them almost unkillable in CQC.
CCP can stack as much glitter as they want, without a rigid fundation this house of cards might just topple in on itself.
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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 14:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:For all the statements on cover, I now have one thing to say: What good is cover when your strafe speed is too low to let you get into cover before you die?
Yes, couldn't have said it better myself... |
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