DUST Search - Update from IRC 10/10/2012

Jaysin 011584 wrote:

As for orbital strikes I suggest increasing commission points (and commission points only not WP earned by squad lead himself, A squad leader should have to call orders to earn a orbital strike that would encourage the use of orders and teamwork) needed to earn the strike not reducing the wp earned, it is hard enough to keep a squad grouped up and the defend order on the squad lead works very well at keeping random and others near to each other.

As for boosting reduce the wp earned with constant use, if someone uses the repair tool for two minutes straight im pretty sure they are boosting and legitimately using the repair tool.

The AV grenades as mines, I think it is very smart because they do not explode on infantry at all. As a matter of fact i always thought on the last build why they did not do that. So to be able to make a perimeter, or line that stops a rushing LAV is TACTICAL. Now if they were to blow up on infantry then remove the mine feature but otherwise in balances itself out. Also it makes sense, since we can not pick up AV grenades that did not detonate, now if we could then most players would not leave their AV grenades on the ground to act as mines. but again I say it makes sense, they home in and are armed so if a vehicle was to drive near it, then it would attach and detonate.

Also no zone should yield no points because then when people get pushed back they will back out instead of keep trying.

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

CCP Wolfman> Also Tactial Assault Rifles are getting fixed. ' --------------------------------------------------YES
CCP Wolfman > We're looking into removing AV mines. --------------------------------------------------------NO
Discussed Hotfixes possible options but not limted to:
0'ing out all point gains from repair and remote modules.--------------------------------------------------------------------NO
0'ing out all point gains for repairfnig vehicles.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO
Bumpering Up vehicles to make them harder to damage with collision. -------------------------------------------------YES
Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limtied to:
Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can)---NO
Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO
Balance out WP gains for various tasks. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------MAYBE
Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) -----------------------------MAYBE
Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO
Giving the Barge Limited Ammo--(1 shot per squad lead in AMBUSH, maybe 2 shot per lead in Skirmish)---YES

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.10.10 18:03:00 - [61] - Quote Wheres the fix for the getting under the map glitch??
Bubbles moon Algintal Core Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.10.10 18:03:00 - [62] - Quote **** this I can't stand these games with people getting 7000 WP and endless trikes, this is dumb there is no way to come back, when is thi build dropping?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.10 18:04:00 - [63] - Quote Remember chances, are there is going to be another SP wipe when we move to TQ. Just note that the hotfix will be temporary if its too determinetal to normal game play such as 0 wp'ing out the repair tools will get undone if they come up with a more pernament solution. As for the communications it was posted already about this, CCP Wolfman just came back from Russia popped his head in for lunch and asked about the largest exploit in the game, asked how it was done, what are players likely to do if one thing gets fixed and asked on how to discourage the behavior via hot fix and then via long term.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.10 18:37:00 - [64] - Quote Vehicles are not required for the repair farming, so you'd have to zero out the SP/WP from the whole rep tool to shut it down. That would cause our Logi brothers a good deal of pain, but it might be worth it for the short term. I doubt that the Yellow zone would solve the problem. Picture a heavily contested Skirmish match on a large map. Add a boosting squad off on the edge of the map. Would the enemy team even notice it in the middle of the fight? I would guess not, and even if they did there would be little incentive to abandon a capture point to go after them. Maybe if they were spamming OB's, but savy farmers would abstaiin from attracting attention to themselves that way. However there is another way: There are two distinct security methods. The first is to prevent a crime, and the other is to allow it to happen but punish the perpetrator after. Some actions are difficult to prevent and easy to track, so they lend themselves to the latter type of enforcement. Boosting falls into that category. There are many ways to boost that are dificult to prevent without causing collateral damage, and yet it is quite easy to spot. CCP could write a simple overwatch routine to sniff out boosting activity, and that could be augmented over time if needed. Then punish the booster. Slap an SP fine on him big enough to hurt. Just like the IRS, you would then audit the offenders SP gains for a certain length of history to search for other boosting. The threat of an SP audit and fine would be enough to deter such behavior. No matter how long you managed to get away with it, you would always run the risk of discovery and punishment.
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:08:00 - [65] - Quote All this makes me think they should've just gone 100% passive for SP gain in the first place. SP farming is not a problem in EVE, because it's not possible.
Skytt Syysch Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:28:00 - [66] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: All this makes me think they should've just gone 100% passive for SP gain in the first place. SP farming is not a problem in EVE, because it's not possible. Farming for OBs is the bigger problem. I don't care if you hit your SP cap in a shorter period of time, I do however care if you're raining "unearned" OBs onto the field all game.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.10 19:37:00 - [67] - Quote Skytt Syysch wrote: Shiro Mokuzan wrote: All this makes me think they should've just gone 100% passive for SP gain in the first place. SP farming is not a problem in EVE, because it's not possible. Farming for OBs is the bigger problem. I don't care if you hit your SP cap in a shorter period of time, I do however care if you're raining "unearned" OBs onto the field all game. Ah, but you WOULD care if half your team abandonded you to play Farmville. You can't enjoy the game playing four against eight.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.10 20:26:00 - [68] - Quote Remember also that war point gains are likely to be a factor into the long term fix so the circle jerk around the LAV might also get fixed as well with the defend command.
PT SD Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 125	Posted - 2012.10.10 21:44:00 - [69] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: PT SD wrote: So let me get this straight, I play Medic logi right now. So I won't get any points for repping my teammates now. This needs clarification, and if this is true I'm done with this build. So everyone gets punished because CCP didn't have the foresight to see this coming. Really, really unfair. Lot more points being medic and giving out ammo then just a repper. And whats unfair about if you want the points then you have to go where the battle is and big hint its not! in the redline. Really. I fight with my squad on the front line all day, everyday. I'm not a farmer, I play my logi as an combat medic. The same role I played for 6 deployments in real life. Look at my data, if you don't believe my word.
Whispercrow Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.11 00:28:00 - [70] - Quote Getting rid of boosting: GREAT! I recommend the bumpering thing. I mean, seriously. I'm OK with shields getting dented, but not the armor, and the armor is the problem. Still let us repair the armor of things. If this makes Armor Tanked stuff a bit OP, I'm cool with that, it's the cost they pay for extra HP and no speed. Getting rid of that Tac AR abuse: GOOD! No way that was intentional. But, having approved of and saying all that... can we PLEASE get the ability to select Equipment with the mousewheel again? I want to go back to playing Logi full-time instead of doing this sniping silliness.

ButthurtDweller Onslaught Inc 3	Posted - 2012.10.11 02:16:00 - [71] - Quote The best way to fix this issue is by limiting the amount of points per action towards an orbital strike. For example, if some one wanted to sit there and bump a lav back and forth and spam repairs they could never get an orbital strike doing just that. They could get like 70% towards a full orbital strike but never a full one. Since no one mode of gaining points by itself could allow the squad to get an orbital strike this would force people to play the game and use various skills such as hacking/ killing/ injectors as well as repairs.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.11 04:20:00 - [72] - Quote ButthurtDweller wrote: The best way to fix this issue is by limiting the amount of points per action towards an orbital strike. For example, if some one wanted to sit there and bump a lav back and forth and spam repairs they could never get an orbital strike doing just that. They could get like 70% towards a full orbital strike but never a full one. Since no one mode of gaining points by itself could allow the squad to get an orbital strike this would force people to play the game and use various skills such as hacking/ killing/ injectors as well as repairs. Doing it for SP is just as bad if they leave you four against eight. I say enforce a no farming rule like the IRS enforces the tax code. They do zero to prevent you from cheating, it would require doing our taxes for you and that is prohibitively expensive. Instead they catch you after the fact and fine you into the stone age or toss you into prison. So CCP implements a scanner to run over all server logs of matches to flag and preserve suspicious behavior. Most cases of farming are blatantly obvious so it would not be difficult. Then you fine he offenders something like ten times the SP they farmed. Repeat offenders would also get banned for a time. Word would get around very quickly and farming woud stop. It also has he advantage of discouraging other boosting methods as there would be the threat of a historical audit of past matches for the behavior once it was discovered. You could never be sure you were getting away with it or if you woud be discovered later and suffer the consequences. All that and you don't penalize anyone for normal play. No yellow zones, no nerfing logis.
Jaysin 011584 Scorpions At War 90	Posted - 2012.10.11 04:58:00 - [73] - Quote As for orbital strikes I suggest increasing commission points (and commission points only not WP earned by squad lead himself, A squad leader should have to call orders to earn a orbital strike that would encourage the use of orders and teamwork) needed to earn the strike not reducing the wp earned, it is hard enough to keep a squad grouped up and the defend order on the squad lead works very well at keeping random and others near to each other. Also put the delay on the orbitals like last build so you can at least TRY and run away or make the radius more accurate to the preliminary lasers show, because more than 10 times i have been on the outside of the radius and ran the opposite direction and still get killed by the strike. As for boosting reduce the WP earned with constant use, if someone uses the repair tool for two minutes straight im pretty sure they are boosting and not legitimately using the repair tool. The AV grenades as mines, I think it is very smart because they do not explode on infantry at all. As a matter of fact i always thought on the last build why they did not do that. So to be able to make a perimeter, or line that stops a rushing LAV is TACTICAL. Now if they were to blow up on infantry then remove the mine feature but otherwise in balances itself out. Also it makes sense, since we can not pick up AV grenades that did not detonate, now if we could then most players would not leave their AV grenades on the ground to act as mines. but again I say it makes sense, they home in and are armed so if a vehicle was to drive near it, then it would attach and detonate. Also no zone should yield no points because then when people get pushed back they will back out instead of keep trying. my votes Also Tactial Assault Rifles are getting fixed. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES We're looking into removing AV mines. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Discussed Hotfixes possible options but not limted to: 0'ing out all point gains from repair and remote modules.--------------------------------------------------------------------NO 0'ing out all point gains for repairfnig vehicles.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Bumpering Up vehicles to make them harder to damage with collision. -------------------------------------------------YES Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limtied to: Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can)---NO Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Balance out WP gains for various tasks. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) ------------------------------NO Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Giving the Barge Limited Ammo--(1 shot per squad lead in AMBUSH, maybe 2 shot per lead in Skirmish)---YES
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.11 05:17:00 - [74] - Quote Jaysin 011584 wrote: As for orbital strikes I suggest increasing commission points (and commission points only not WP earned by squad lead himself, A squad leader should have to call orders to earn a orbital strike that would encourage the use of orders and teamwork) needed to earn the strike not reducing the wp earned, it is hard enough to keep a squad grouped up and the defend order on the squad lead works very well at keeping random and others near to each other. As for boosting reduce the wp earned with constant use, if someone uses the repair tool for two minutes straight im pretty sure they are boosting and legitimately using the repair tool. The AV grenades as mines, I think it is very smart because they do not explode on infantry at all. As a matter of fact i always thought on the last build why they did not do that. So to be able to make a perimeter, or line that stops a rushing LAV is TACTICAL. Now if they were to blow up on infantry then remove the mine feature but otherwise in balances itself out. Also it makes sense, since we can not pick up AV grenades that did not detonate, now if we could then most players would not leave their AV grenades on the ground to act as mines. but again I say it makes sense, they home in and are armed so if a vehicle was to drive near it, then it would attach and detonate. Also no zone should yield no points because then when people get pushed back they will back out instead of keep trying. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Wolfman> Also Tactial Assault Rifles are getting fixed. ' --------------------------------------------------YES CCP Wolfman > We're looking into removing AV mines. --------------------------------------------------------NO Discussed Hotfixes possible options but not limted to: 0'ing out all point gains from repair and remote modules.--------------------------------------------------------------------NO 0'ing out all point gains for repairfnig vehicles.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Bumpering Up vehicles to make them harder to damage with collision. -------------------------------------------------YES Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limtied to: Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can)---NO Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Balance out WP gains for various tasks. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------MAYBE Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) -----------------------------MAYBE Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO Giving the Barge Limited Ammo--(1 shot per squad lead in AMBUSH, maybe 2 shot per lead in Skirmish)---YES Bumpering up the vehicles may not happen from the looks of it. 0ing out points for repairs on vehicles is looking more likely but leaving as is I am sure you're going to be no as well. Something has got to give.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2012.10.11 07:43:00 - [75] - Quote Jaysin 011584 wrote: We're looking into removing AV mines. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO yeah because it is so PRO and tactical to use grenades that you cant even see most of the time =D
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.11 07:44:00 - [76] - Quote Quote: my votes We're looking into removing AV mines. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NO They dont want to remove AV mines...... They want to remove the ability of AV GRENADES to be used as mines. As it kills the role of the ACTUAL AV mines they added this build in explosives. This dropping AV nades all over the place is dumb.
Foundation Seldon Algintal Core Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2012.10.11 08:18:00 - [77] - Quote Please bring back E3 build method of Restocking.
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 60	Posted - 2012.10.11 08:24:00 - [78] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Collision / friendly damage should be repairable, but it should just yield no war points. Was thinking the exact thing, glad I read the rest of the thread. +1
Miss Practice 30	Posted - 2012.10.11 11:30:00 - [79] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just basically summarized the entire conversation. CCP Wolfman>'We're currently looking into a hotfix to stop boosting and strike spamming to temporarily stop this behavior until more pernament solution can be applied via new build. Updates will be made once we have something concrete as we explor posisble hotfix options and capabilities. CCP Wolfman> Also Tactial Assault Rifles are getting fixed. ' <- Good CCP Wolfman > We're looking into removing AV mines. Discussed Hotfixes possible options but not limted to: 0'ing out all point gains from repair and remote modules. : Bad. My logi gets +25 a tick, which is pretty long unless its a heavy. 0'ing out all point gains for repairfnig vehicles. : Good Maybe make it so you only get points for repairing a vehicile you didnt drive. Bumpering Up vehicles to make them harder to damage with collision. : Bad. Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limtied to: Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can) : Good, but a bad nerf fo Scouts, who already dont have much love. Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics. : good They have always seemed kinda goofy to me. For example, setting a defend on the only cloning faculity in the area, nets 25 pts a kill, whereas on a player it is anywhere between 36-64. Balance out WP gains for various tasks. : Great. Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) : Great Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only : Best Giving the Barge Limited Ammo : Bad. This may also be a good time to suggest your own fixes, remember hot fix is number tweaks only. Build fix can get a bit more creative though.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.10.12 09:07:00 - [80] - Quote From a different thread. Timothy Reaper wrote: No points for reversing self-inflicted damage. That way jumping off buildings, friendly splash damage, grenades or ramming vehicles into the scenery won't provide any benefits. Of course this will suck for genuine accidents, but something has got to give. Punishing farmers afterwards would work as well.

Theos Bell ZionTCD Legacy Rising 5	Posted - 2012.10.16 21:56:00 - [81] - Quote Of these: Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limited to: Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can) Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics. Balance out WP gains for various tasks. Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only Giving the Barge Limited Ammo I think, only the tracked HP values is a viable solution that addresses both WP gain and OB spamming. I would very much be against Yellow Zones as being needlessly complicated and confusing, plus many maps are large enough that there are places to exploit in relative safety. Limited OB ammo would penalize the not-so-great squad that manages to build up to an OB toward the end of a round, but then has the anti-climax of realizing the barge is out of ammo. No a great game play moment.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.10.16 22:05:00 - [82] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Long Term Build Fixes Discussed but not limtied to: Yellow Zones where players cannot earn SP in. (current red zone where enemies cant enter but you can) Re-adjusting squad WP mechanics. Balance out WP gains for various tasks. Tracked HP values (IE damage caused by collisions cannot be repaired or scored.) Moving Strikes into Assist count kills only Giving the Barge Limited Ammo This may also be a good time to suggest your own fixes, remember hot fix is number tweaks only. Build fix can get a bit more creative though. /Rejoice (I added bold to my favorites) Thanks Iron Wolf for the heads up and CCP for continuing to participate in IRC info dissemination.


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