DUST Search - FF ON.

Threvis Valan wrote:

Bosse Ansgar wrote:

Threvis Valan wrote:

some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal.

the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed.

You are mistaking this for a hardcore game. Not one dev or GM has ever said this is supposed to be a hardcore FPS game. Moreover you come in here blab your opinion and don't even realize that the majority of this debate isn't whether to have FF or not, it's about the rules and penalties involved. The majority of us are fine with it as long as the punishments are correct. VTK is the most pathetic, over used, and over abused punishment in the history of FPS gaming, so that's pretty much out.

Next time read the thread before you go "holier than thou" on a conversation you don't even understand.

EDIT: @ Aijul, FF stands for friendly fire.

actually i read the thread just fine. reading your whining earlier its pretty obvious the big mean boys from SOCOM kicked u from games and it hurt your lil feelings or something. its happened to us all...guess what the rest of us did? we put our big boy pants on and GOT OVER IT. as you should...or hug someone, just please with the crying.

that said, if there's an alternative to VTK (i actually think stopping a guys clone or turning him unfriendly is cool, stays true to the fiction and seems like just the thing CCP would do) i'm all for it. but make no mistake, FF is PRIORITY. If it comes down to it, it should take precedence over everything...yes, even if it means VTK.

lastly, they've said COUNTLESS times that this is a hardcore title. its based in the New Eden galaxy...EVE is super HARDCORE and this is an offshoot of that...its not algebra or anything.

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Threvis Valan Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:54:00 - [31] - Quote some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal. the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed.
Aijul ZionTCD Legacy Rising 55	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:01:00 - [32] - Quote Final Fantasy ON? (I have no clue what FF is)
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:05:00 - [33] - Quote Threvis Valan wrote: some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal. the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed. You are mistaking this for a hardcore game. Not one dev or GM has ever said this is supposed to be a hardcore FPS game. Moreover you come in here blab your opinion and don't even realize that the majority of this debate isn't whether to have FF or not, it's about the rules and penalties involved. The majority of us are fine with it as long as the punishments are correct. VTK is the most pathetic, over used, and over abused punishment in the history of FPS gaming, so that's pretty much out. Next time read the thread before you go "holier than thou" on a conversation you don't even understand. EDIT: @ Aijul, FF stands for friendly fire.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:14:00 - [34] - Quote FF should always be on regardless of high, lo, or null. You want "tactical" game play then it needs to be on.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:16:00 - [35] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: Threvis Valan wrote: some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal. the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed. You are mistaking this for a hardcore game. Not one dev or GM has ever said this is supposed to be a hardcore FPS game. Moreover you come in here blab your opinion and don't even realize that the majority of this debate isn't whether to have FF or not, it's about the rules and penalties involved. The majority of us are fine with it as long as the punishments are correct. VTK is the most pathetic, over used, and over abused punishment in the history of FPS gaming, so that's pretty much out. Next time read the thread before you go "holier than thou" on a conversation you don't even understand. EDIT: @ Aijul, FF stands for friendly fire. Actually they said on more than one occasion it's supposed to be a hardcore shooter. But in reality it's not turning out that way.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:18:00 - [36] - Quote When and where did they say this is supposed to be hardcore? All I've heard from the beginning is that this is supposed to be an accessible FPS MMO that anyone can play. That is not the definition of hardcore to my recollection.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:18:00 - [37] - Quote A bounty system and security status. The lower your security status the lower sec only and a bounty system where extra ISK and WP for killing bounty, no matter what team or squad.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:22:00 - [38] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: A bounty system and security status. The lower your security status the lower sec only and a bounty system where extra ISK and WP for killing bounty, no matter what team or squad. What sense does a bounty system make in Dust? You kill a guy, he comes right back. Killing him accomplishes nothing, so why would anyone want to put up a bounty for it? I can see in game bounty rewards forming for high K/D ratio enemies, but I don't think your version of it makes much sense.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:34:00 - [39] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: When and where did they say this is supposed to be hardcore? All I've heard from the beginning is that this is supposed to be an accessible FPS MMO that anyone can play. That is not the definition of hardcore to my recollection. I'm not willing to go through all the stuff I saw to find them. When they said accessible they meant something accessible to the people who are interested in EVE but not it's gameplay.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:38:00 - [40] - Quote In reading all of these great ideas, I think maybe the teamkilling mechanic I was to see is this: Any merc must be able to kill any other merc in any situation. That's New Eden. FF-Team and FF-Squad kills on every merc's public record. Let the solution to team killers come from the community. Teamkilling drops your security status, and eventually pushes you out to losec, then nullsec. What you have to do to grind it back up i don't care, so long as it is a grind. VTK(Vote-To-Kick) systems are easy to abuse, don't like the idea of new players getting kicked from squads for whatever arbitrary reason. Maybe a 1 minute vote window for a certain amount of teamkilling, maybe modified by the player's teamkilling history. If the poor merc wasn't doing it intentionally you'd be doing them a favor kicking them before their security status dropped too low. The game could autosend a mail saying 'you were vote-kicked by your squadmates for TKing'. Mag is the best example I know of that has FF on, and TKing isn't really much of a problem there, even in pub matches. MAG does have a VTK system, tho, and i'm sure the TKers know it.

Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:48:00 - [41] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: When and where did they say this is supposed to be hardcore? All I've heard from the beginning is that this is supposed to be an accessible FPS MMO that anyone can play. That is not the definition of hardcore to my recollection. I'm not willing to go through all the stuff I saw to find them. When they said accessible they meant something accessible to the people who are interested in EVE but not it's gameplay. I'll take you at your word then, I have no reason not to. My apologies for being incorrect in my statement. However I stand by my implicating that guy in being a douche about his opinion.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:58:00 - [42] - Quote I fail to see the issue some people have with "kicking" from a match. This isn't a pc game where the admin might decide to ban you on a whim. If you get kicked, you join another match. You're not going to get repeatedly kicked unless you keep team killing. I have never heard of any fps that runs on centralized servers banning people for being tools and team killing; indeed, I highly doubt that CCP would ever do such a thing based on its track record when it comes to dealing with griefing. New Eden is full of can flippers, isk doublers, high sec griefer corps, and suicide gankers. Having a little bit of freedom to deal with the griefers we all KNOW will turn up would be nice, especially since it seems to me like friendly fire solves more problems than it causes. There have been a lot of great suggestions here to help counter the downsides to friendly fire. I don't think it should be overly punitive SP-wise though. Just penalize an equal number of skill points for team deaths as are awarded for enemy kills. Instituting a security status, or something of the sort would be nice, but it would only be effective if those stuck in null because of their status were inconvenienced in someway. Perhaps a special 'low security level tax" or a tax break for people with high security status like with corp standing in EVE.
Threvis Valan Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.10.08 23:47:00 - [43] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: Threvis Valan wrote: some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal. the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed. You are mistaking this for a hardcore game. Not one dev or GM has ever said this is supposed to be a hardcore FPS game. Moreover you come in here blab your opinion and don't even realize that the majority of this debate isn't whether to have FF or not, it's about the rules and penalties involved. The majority of us are fine with it as long as the punishments are correct. VTK is the most pathetic, over used, and over abused punishment in the history of FPS gaming, so that's pretty much out. Next time read the thread before you go "holier than thou" on a conversation you don't even understand. EDIT: @ Aijul, FF stands for friendly fire. actually i read the thread just fine. reading your whining earlier its pretty obvious the big mean boys from SOCOM kicked u from games and it hurt your lil feelings or something. its happened to us all...guess what the rest of us did? we put our big boy pants on and GOT OVER IT. as you should...or hug someone, just please with the crying. that said, if there's an alternative to VTK (i actually think stopping a guys clone or turning him unfriendly is cool, stays true to the fiction and seems like just the thing CCP would do) i'm all for it. but make no mistake, FF is PRIORITY. If it comes down to it, it should take precedence over everything...yes, even if it means VTK. lastly, they've said COUNTLESS times that this is a hardcore title. its based in the New Eden galaxy...EVE is super HARDCORE and this is an offshoot of that...its not algebra or anything.
Second Cerberus Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2012.10.09 00:17:00 - [44] - Quote I think a % SP fine (including going negative with repeated occurrences) would be fine. I'm ok with auto-kick after a certain number of instances, however I agree with some that team kick is unnecessary. I would also advocate for an ISK fine equal or exceeding the value of your team mates fit. If I kill you, I should have to pay for you to respawn. I know with millions in EVE funds flooding DUST that ISK fines would be no big deal, but at least if someone took advantage of noobs they would get their funds back.
Ieukoplast Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 169	Posted - 2012.10.09 00:17:00 - [45] - Quote I am not sure I want FF in this game, there is just too many negative things that can come from enabling it, with very few positives. Perhaps it should be turned off in hisec, but enabled in null space.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.09 01:19:00 - [46] - Quote Threvis Valan wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: Threvis Valan wrote: some of you need to reevaluates to go about your desire for a hardcore game. FF is basic and fundamental. teamkillers? VTK them. griefing? EVE is griefing. more importantly, it allows moles and traitors to go about the business of betrayal. the benefits of friendly fire FAR outweigh the negatives. choose your targets wisely and you'll never have a problem. this isnt EZ MODE. scared of FF? you should be embarassed. You are mistaking this for a hardcore game. Not one dev or GM has ever said this is supposed to be a hardcore FPS game. Moreover you come in here blab your opinion and don't even realize that the majority of this debate isn't whether to have FF or not, it's about the rules and penalties involved. The majority of us are fine with it as long as the punishments are correct. VTK is the most pathetic, over used, and over abused punishment in the history of FPS gaming, so that's pretty much out. Next time read the thread before you go "holier than thou" on a conversation you don't even understand. EDIT: @ Aijul, FF stands for friendly fire. actually i read the thread just fine. reading your whining earlier its pretty obvious the big mean boys from SOCOM kicked u from games and it hurt your lil feelings or something. its happened to us all...guess what the rest of us did? we put our big boy pants on and GOT OVER IT. as you should...or hug someone, just please with the crying. that said, if there's an alternative to VTK (i actually think stopping a guys clone or turning him unfriendly is cool, stays true to the fiction and seems like just the thing CCP would do) i'm all for it. but make no mistake, FF is PRIORITY. If it comes down to it, it should take precedence over everything...yes, even if it means VTK. lastly, they've said COUNTLESS times that this is a hardcore title. its based in the New Eden galaxy...EVE is super HARDCORE and this is an offshoot of that...its not algebra or anything. Who's the one cryin'? You seem to be the one with the issue, demanding that there is no alternative to adding FF and kicks. "OMG, I can't kill my teammates! OMG I can't kick people because I don't want to play with them! That's so terrible, somebody fix it please!" I would be just fine with this game with or without team kills, I merely stipulate that if you add TK you dont add kicking players. Yeah, I played SOCOM. This isn't crying, I played for about 4 months and was an accepted player, but I finally got fed up and deleted that bullshit save file from my ps3. If your new, no almost one will let you into a game. I played several games where people were kicked at the end of a match because they were the only one left on their team on the field and the players who were already dead didn't want to wait for them because they didn't know who they were. I played games where my friends got kicked because they had a poor K/D ratio and their team didn't want them. I've seen people team killed because someone couldn't get enough votes to vote them out. I've seen players hunt down people who accidentally killed them in a previous match with a grenade when it was their own fault for trying to steal their kill. I've seen people team kill people who stole their kill! It's bullshit! Anyone who isn't already a part of their community is immediately shunned and teamed up on, we don't need a repeat of that here. We do not want that bullshit ******* up another game. As it is team kills are actually seeming less appropriate the more it's discussed.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.09 01:29:00 - [47] - Quote Ieukoplast wrote: I am not sure I want FF in this game, there is just too many negative things that can come from enabling it, with very few positives. Perhaps it should be turned off in hisec, but enabled in null space. After thinking about it for a while, the only major negative I see is loss of equipment to deaths from friendly fire and since there is real money involved I can see CCP being reluctant to go down that route. However, I think maybe making items lost to friendly fire be automatically part of your salvage at the end of the match, at least in hi-sec would be a good middle ground. Even in lower security systems, they could have a higher probability of being salvage at the end of a match.
The Infected One CrimeWave Syndicate 126	Posted - 2012.10.09 01:41:00 - [48] - Quote High sec: FF OFF for the new people, and ones who don't know how to aim Low sec: 50% FF damage so people can have their TK fun and also learn the consequences of firing a forge gun into the middle of a blob of blue dots in order to steal that red dot kill. Null sec: 100% FF damage for the players who want full realism and team play mentality, higher risk, higher reward.
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.10.09 01:55:00 - [49] - Quote FF + Mass Driver = Solo player because everyone else hates him.
8404-0000 GREEN Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 20	Posted - 2012.10.09 02:14:00 - [50] - Quote FF on for Corp battles? Those are the ones that count and I doubt you'll get TKers in there cause you will know everyone on your team...unless spies!



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