DUST Search - FF ON.

Bosse Ansgar wrote:

G Dubya Bush wrote:

Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam.

Hell no. **** no, **** no, ***** no, no ******* way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts".

I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever.


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G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:27:00 - [1] - Quote Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:50:00 - [2] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Just spitballing, but here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: Sec status loss: Enough FF will net you permanent duty in lowsec and below until you grind enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access Self damage: CONCORD controlled merc life support, FF converts to 150% self damage scaled against total HP Weapon disabling: CONCORD controlled weapon jamming, enough FF results in temporary offlining of weapons. Neutral tagging: Enough FF turns you into a red for both teams. Team notification: Enough FF prompts your team to votekick you Or maybe some combination of these. It makes sense to have FF off in highsec, but the Eve player in me really wants to see it on at all times. I like these ideas especially the status loss and self damage ideas. Of course they would have to be scaled down as the security level decreases. I think people who keep bringing up the "then people will grief and tk all the time" argument should go play some games with tk on. I have played a lot of halo and COD hardcore mode, and experienced very little team killing. When I do, the players are kicked with a quickness. And yes, I have gotten kicked accidentally through my own stupidity and poor aim, but I just joined another game, and chalked it up to experience
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:59:00 - [3] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: G Dubya Bush wrote: Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam. Hell no. ** no, no, * no, no ***** way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts". I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever. I think the idea of vote kick is that you would have to team kill before a vote kick. I totally agree there shouldn't be a "vote to kick player A without a prior condition being met" button. But an autovote to kick someone who has several TK's. Yes. Definitely.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote I fail to see the issue some people have with "kicking" from a match. This isn't a pc game where the admin might decide to ban you on a whim. If you get kicked, you join another match. You're not going to get repeatedly kicked unless you keep team killing. I have never heard of any fps that runs on centralized servers banning people for being tools and team killing; indeed, I highly doubt that CCP would ever do such a thing based on its track record when it comes to dealing with griefing. New Eden is full of can flippers, isk doublers, high sec griefer corps, and suicide gankers. Having a little bit of freedom to deal with the griefers we all KNOW will turn up would be nice, especially since it seems to me like friendly fire solves more problems than it causes. There have been a lot of great suggestions here to help counter the downsides to friendly fire. I don't think it should be overly punitive SP-wise though. Just penalize an equal number of skill points for team deaths as are awarded for enemy kills. Instituting a security status, or something of the sort would be nice, but it would only be effective if those stuck in null because of their status were inconvenienced in someway. Perhaps a special 'low security level tax" or a tax break for people with high security status like with corp standing in EVE.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.09 01:29:00 - [5] - Quote Ieukoplast wrote: I am not sure I want FF in this game, there is just too many negative things that can come from enabling it, with very few positives. Perhaps it should be turned off in hisec, but enabled in null space. After thinking about it for a while, the only major negative I see is loss of equipment to deaths from friendly fire and since there is real money involved I can see CCP being reluctant to go down that route. However, I think maybe making items lost to friendly fire be automatically part of your salvage at the end of the match, at least in hi-sec would be a good middle ground. Even in lower security systems, they could have a higher probability of being salvage at the end of a match.