DUST Search - FF ON.

G Dubya Bush wrote:

Bosse Ansgar wrote:

G Dubya Bush wrote:

Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam.

Hell no. **** no, **** no, ***** no, no ******* way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts".

I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever.

I think the idea of vote kick is that you would have to team kill before a vote kick. I totally agree there shouldn't be a "vote to kick player A without a prior condition being met" button. But an autovote to kick someone who has several TK's. Yes. Definitely.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:32:00 - [1] - Quote FF ON. This is the community consensus. Given the type of player that is attracted to DUST, EVE, New Eden it's unimaginable that when the game goes live, FF is disabled. It will pollute people's idea of what New Eden is. It will send the wrong message to visitors during their very first moments in New Eden. We know why: CCP doesn't want team griefing to ruin the new player experience in hisec pub matches. Our job as Beta testers is twofold: We need to make sure that CCP gets the message re FF ON. Loud and clear. Give CCP your opinion, and tell them why you feel that way. Make it short, sweet and to the point. We need to throw alternative ideas at CCP. Good, bad, half-baked - doesn't matter. The other peeps on this forum or CCP themselves will refine your idea if it has merit, or hybridize it with somebody else's idea or use the two ideas to synthesize a whole new and better way of looking at the problem. The point is, if FF ON is important to you, you gotta think of a way to solve the FF griefing problem and then tell CCP about it. My proposed solution is this: Any merc must be able to kill any other merc in any situation. That's New Eden. FF-Team and FF-Squad kills on every merc's public record. Let the solution to team killers come from the community. Allow squad leaders to set a FF-to-Enemies killed auto-reject filter for squad membership. No warpoints ofc for FF kills. Tempted to ask for a WP penalty but something doesn't smell right about that approach - can't verbalize it right now. My merc hates rules so I'm gonna stop there. New Eden is no place for unnecessary rules.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:35:00 - [2] - Quote CCP has already stated that FF will be off in High Sec, on in Null Sec, and that they haven't quited decided about Low Sec.
Villore Isu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 115	Posted - 2012.10.08 18:59:00 - [3] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP has already stated that FF will be off in High Sec, on in Null Sec, and that they haven't quited decided about Low Sec. That's the beauty of the game being in beta, CCP still has time to realise what a terrible idea it is to have FF turned off, regardless of security.
Virex Staz Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 53	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:00:00 - [4] - Quote Maybe low-sec should have a hybrid system. Team captain can activate a module that disables FF but gives a rate-of-fire penalty to his team or something.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:00:00 - [5] - Quote Villore Isu wrote: That's the beauty of the game being in beta, CCP still has time to realise what a terrible idea it is to have FF turned off, regardless of security. Except for the part where it isn't a terrible idea, right? It may also be safe to gander that HighSec may have a "hardcore mode" like CoD and BF, so players can choose. What matchmaking game have you ever played that had FF on 100% of the time? Virex Staz wrote: Maybe low-sec should have a hybrid system. Team captain can activate a module that disables FF but gives a rate-of-fire penalty to his team or something. Honestly, i don't see how that would make any sense.
VirtualxBucaneer ROGUE SPADES 44	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:01:00 - [6] - Quote Is going to be chaotic, which is interesting.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:02:00 - [7] - Quote Hisec make FF off, but FW (and CCP already stated null would be) should have FF imo. FW will be a more team based thing, and i know they want to make it open to solo'rs as well, and thats cool, they can participate as well. Only reason i say FF off for hisec is because griefers would love to **** around in hisec and it would be much less team orientated
Villore Isu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 115	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:12:00 - [8] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Villore Isu wrote: That's the beauty of the game being in beta, CCP still has time to realise what a terrible idea it is to have FF turned off, regardless of security. Except for the part where it isn't a terrible idea, right? It may also be safe to gander that HighSec may have a "hardcore mode" like CoD and BF, so players can choose. What matchmaking game have you ever played that had FF on 100% of the time? Halo (barring some special novelty game types - 'Rocket racing' comes to mind here...) In CoD and BF you have so little health that FF would result in lots of accidental kills, but in Dust (and Halo) you can take quite a few hits, enough to mean that if you regularly team kill you are either an awful player, extremely careless with AoE weapons / vehicles, or doing it on purpose. Ofc there should be way to kick players from matches for team killing maybe with a ISK and/or WP peanalty per kill, and as a nice bonus, if FF had a penalty attached, it might also reduce OB spamming.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:18:00 - [9] - Quote It isn't the community consensus. It's the opinion of a handful of people who don't necessarily have the best interests of the game in mind. FF on for average games would be a disaster. You have not given this much thought. Spending a significant part of every game fighting with squads of team killers to even get away from your spawn would not be enjoyable.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:20:00 - [10] - Quote I just don't see how it would make sense in High Sec. We all know there would be griefers, noobs with laser rifles, mass drivers, forge guns, and HMG's. I think it would cause a lot of crying. Unless it's done as it was done in MAG (High Sec only I'm talking about) where an accidental shot dealt no damage, but continued fire would kill a friendly.

G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:27:00 - [11] - Quote Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam.
8404-0000 GREEN Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 20	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:27:00 - [12] - Quote FF on for orbital strikes for sure, maybe reduced for team killing, add in a penalty for killing a team mate that could end in a kick, Heck Killzone 2 wouldn't give you the good conduct (more ammo at spawn) ribbon unless you went X number of matches w/o a friendly fire incident. That really cut down on rocket spamming.
843 pano 843 Boot Camp 200	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:30:00 - [13] - Quote It's on all the time in MAG and is not a big problem. You might get a TKer, but they get called out and kicked from the game or targeted for repeated killing. It makes you really think about your shots and where your team mates are. If it is to be on only in null sec, then the rewards for null sec SP and ISK need to be adjusted in accordance to the skill needed to play in that environment.
Villore Isu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 115	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:34:00 - [14] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: It isn't the community consensus. It's the opinion of a handful of people who don't necessarily have the best interests of the game in mind. FF on for average games would be a disaster. You have not given this much thought. Spending a significant part of every game fighting with squads of team killers to even get away from your spawn would not be enjoyable. Give them das boot. Problem. Solved. I reiterate, Halo has FF on in nearly all game types and I challenge you to say that it is not a successful game, or that it is not a game for average players. As long as there are measures in place to deal with team killers such as booting, reduced (or maybe even negative) rewards at the end of a match etc. then there is no real reason why FF should not be on. Fake Edit: A system where you did reduced damage to team-mates (or increasing damage - kinda like the laser rifle) would be a good compromise, actions still have consequences, but accidents are not so brutally punished.
GarryKE Omnispace Trading Company 60	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:34:00 - [15] - Quote Then there will be the people who intentionally log in to play the game while recording for their thousands of Youtube subscribers, just to start team killing everyone and shouting crap down the microphone at your team. Then Dust will join the likes of BF and MW3 and all that junk. So there would need to be some penalising system wherein users will be kicked and lose an amount of ISK and/or SP and not able to join the servers for 10 minutes after. Let's be serious for a minute - if people want it it will need to be a lot more controlled than any other game supports. Look at clone fights for example. Think how wrong they can go if this was enabled. Precistion Strikes and Orbital Bombardments should definitely enable it but anything else I'm not quite sure.
Jariel Manton SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 210	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:37:00 - [16] - Quote Villore Isu wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP has already stated that FF will be off in High Sec, on in Null Sec, and that they haven't quited decided about Low Sec. That's the beauty of the game being in beta, CCP still has time to realise what a terrible idea it is to have FF turned off, regardless of security. Your opinion, not mine, having it the way it is now in high sec is the right call.
Terram Nenokal BetaMax. 115	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:43:00 - [17] - Quote Just spitballing, but here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: Sec status loss: Enough FF will net you permanent duty in lowsec and below until you grind enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access Self damage: CONCORD controlled merc life support, FF converts to 150% self damage scaled against total HP Weapon disabling: CONCORD controlled weapon jamming, enough FF results in temporary offlining of weapons. Neutral tagging: Enough FF turns you into a red for both teams. Team notification: Enough FF prompts your team to votekick you Or maybe some combination of these. It makes sense to have FF off in highsec, but the Eve player in me really wants to see it on at all times.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:43:00 - [18] - Quote G Dubya Bush wrote: Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam. Hell no. ** no, no, * no, no ***** way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts". I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever.
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:50:00 - [19] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Just spitballing, but here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: Sec status loss: Enough FF will net you permanent duty in lowsec and below until you grind enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access Self damage: CONCORD controlled merc life support, FF converts to 150% self damage scaled against total HP Weapon disabling: CONCORD controlled weapon jamming, enough FF results in temporary offlining of weapons. Neutral tagging: Enough FF turns you into a red for both teams. Team notification: Enough FF prompts your team to votekick you Or maybe some combination of these. It makes sense to have FF off in highsec, but the Eve player in me really wants to see it on at all times. I like these ideas especially the status loss and self damage ideas. Of course they would have to be scaled down as the security level decreases. I think people who keep bringing up the "then people will grief and tk all the time" argument should go play some games with tk on. I have played a lot of halo and COD hardcore mode, and experienced very little team killing. When I do, the players are kicked with a quickness. And yes, I have gotten kicked accidentally through my own stupidity and poor aim, but I just joined another game, and chalked it up to experience
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:52:00 - [20] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Just spitballing, but here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: Sec status loss: Enough FF will net you permanent duty in lowsec and below until you grind enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access Self damage: CONCORD controlled merc life support, FF converts to 150% self damage scaled against total HP Weapon disabling: CONCORD controlled weapon jamming, enough FF results in temporary offlining of weapons. Neutral tagging: Enough FF turns you into a red for both teams. Team notification: Enough FF prompts your team to votekick you Or maybe some combination of these. It makes sense to have FF off in highsec, but the Eve player in me really wants to see it on at all times. Except for that last one, I think every one of these are spectacular ideas. Especially the "Sec status loss" and the "Neutral tagging". I think a combination of those two with weapon disabling would be a PERFECT solution. How about this: If you kill one ally you loose 125 WP and you only gain half WP for the rest of the match. If you kill one ally and take another's shields down, your weapon disables and you are tagged as a target by both teams. If you do this in 5 matches, you are stuck in lowsec until you complete enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access.

SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:56:00 - [21] - Quote they could also add dmg reduction to FF normal weapon dmg in nullsec -75% in lowsec -50% in high so u would do half dmg in highsec to friendlies unless u actually want to TK this would make the TK use twice as much ammo in highsec
G Dubya Bush Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.10.08 19:59:00 - [22] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: G Dubya Bush wrote: Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam. Hell no. ** no, no, * no, no ***** way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts". I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever. I think the idea of vote kick is that you would have to team kill before a vote kick. I totally agree there shouldn't be a "vote to kick player A without a prior condition being met" button. But an autovote to kick someone who has several TK's. Yes. Definitely.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:30:00 - [23] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: I just don't see how it would make sense in High Sec. We all know there would be griefers, noobs with laser rifles, mass drivers, forge guns, and HMG's. I think it would cause a lot of crying. Unless it's done as it was done in MAG (High Sec only I'm talking about) where an accidental shot dealt no damage, but continued fire would kill a friendly. Actually, most tking noobs will be using the ar as it is easy to use effectively
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:32:00 - [24] - Quote G Dubya Bush wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: G Dubya Bush wrote: Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam. Hell no. ** no, no, * no, no ***** way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts". I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever. I think the idea of vote kick is that you would have to team kill before a vote kick. I totally agree there shouldn't be a "vote to kick player A without a prior condition being met" button. But an autovote to kick someone who has several TK's. Yes. Definitely. Kicking is a bad idea for low/null, that ruins the fun
Sandromin Hes Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 204	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:33:00 - [25] - Quote When they want to test null-sec, they'll include FF
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:42:00 - [26] - Quote G Dubya Bush wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: G Dubya Bush wrote: Well if we want to make it analogous to EVE, then we should have autokicks for TK in high sec (like getting concorded), then vote to kick in low/nullsec. Maybe autokick in low sec if you do it in the spawn area (like jumpgate turrets). FF should be always be on, at the very least to counter the cheese orbital strike in the middle of a fight for an objective, since you can't respawn before the enemy has hacked it. Or to counter planting and blowing remote charges on your teammates. Oh, and to counter spamming grenades into a firefight. Really to stop any AOE damage spam. Hell no. ** no, no, * no, no ***** way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, NO KICKING. If you allow kicking under any circumstances this game will devolve into a futuristic SOCOM knock off before you know it, and SOCOM brats will be kicking team and squadmates off their team because "Do you know that guy? I don't know him. Vote him out before the match starts". I've been there, I've been the victim of it and been friends with people who were the victims of it, and it is BULLSHIT. NOTHING ruins a game faster than getting kicked. NO one should be able to vote you out, not out of a match or a squad, for ANY reason. If you want to lay a hefty penalty of team killing I'm all for it, but adding a kicking feature is BEGGING to ruin this game's open nature and overall enjoyment. I'd sooner have no friendly fire if it means adding kicking feature. If you can't have friendly fire without coming up with an alternative to kicking, then don't add friendly fire. Ever. I think the idea of vote kick is that you would have to team kill before a vote kick. I totally agree there shouldn't be a "vote to kick player A without a prior condition being met" button. But an autovote to kick someone who has several TK's. Yes. Definitely. The only, ONLY circumstance in which I could agree to kicking is for cheating like reppers who are trying to boost points in a corner of a map by damaging vehicles, and only then by reporting them to a moderator via a chat menu option, who would then make the decision to kick them or not. If it is in any way controlled by players, there will be an outcry for the option to be expanded and there you go down the slippery slope to SOCOM. Kicking is a bad idea, and being voted out by your team is a harsh feeling that makes you not want to play the game, whether it's because you are a bad shot or your doing it on purpose. Penalize it similar to how Terram Nenokal mentioned (minus the kicking) and the problem will be solved without the need for any kicking.
Dred B Bourne Dred's Mission Runners 0	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:51:00 - [27] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Just spitballing, but here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: Sec status loss: Enough FF will net you permanent duty in lowsec and below until you grind enough sleeper missions to regain highsec access Self damage: CONCORD controlled merc life support, FF converts to 150% self damage scaled against total HP Weapon disabling: CONCORD controlled weapon jamming, enough FF results in temporary offlining of weapons. Neutral tagging: Enough FF turns you into a red for both teams. Team notification: Enough FF prompts your team to votekick you Or maybe some combination of these. It makes sense to have FF off in highsec, but the Eve player in me really wants to see it on at all times. I agree with the conclusion that there should be absolutely no Kick/ban in Dust. That said everything but the last one fits well. How about for that last one that player looses 1/4 of their war point per Friendly killed and the Standard Fee in isk is taken from their pay. Meaning that their mission could have a net loss if they kill to many with FF
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.10.08 20:52:00 - [28] - Quote Perhaps they should have FF off in a training ground that pays worse than highsec. People can get used to how the game operates and move to highsec when they are ready.
Rorian Gray HavoK Core 12	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:02:00 - [29] - Quote I also want to see FF ON. I've never played console FPSs prior to DUST so I consider myself a noob somewhat also. As long as there is a notice before the first match reminding a new player that FF is ON there shouldn't be any concerns about it happening overly much if unintentional. What I would like to see instead is a mechanic for a team leader/squad leader to turn off a member's re-cloning access mid-match and/or un-flag them as friendly [or even some form of vote-to-kick]. This would handle griefers just fine while still allowing some skullduggery such as the merc who just got paid by the other team to mis-mark the orbital bombardment target.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:29:00 - [30] - Quote I'd like to add that there is already a penalty in place for team killing: you get -50 WP. Try this: hop into a LAV with a team mate, damage it until armor starts to burn, and wait until the both of you blow up. The driver will receive a team kill for that, at least I did. I think I went from 35 WP to 0 for that, so negative WP are not possible I guess. Other than that, I'm all for FF, even on random matches. I used to play BF with FF on whenever possible, because it makes people think before they act. That's the reason why I prefer FF, but I guess it's a matter of taste, just like the arcade fps vs. tactical fps debate.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page